The Uber Honda....focus now and do not be distracted!

[liftcontrol]

The Uber Honda....

It is time for the true Honda enthusiasts to rejoice, for their prayers have been answered and Honda is finally returning to its roots. The time to lament the HSC which was DOA or whether or not Honda should have continued to develop the NSX chassis and upgraded it's peformance over the years is now a mute point. Honda is taking the higher road. Honda has seen the light.:biggrin:

People, be grateful and be joyful. This new car, that Honda is apparently ENGINEERING TO THE HILT, is aimed at not necassarily being the prettiest car on the road, but at being one of the best, if not the best, at what it can DO on the road. All those who have complained all these years about the NSX not having enough power, enough braking, enough handling etc. etc. are getting their wish. They are finally getting a drivers car that is being developed by engineers and not bean counters.:wink:

Beauty is a very subjective thing. No automaker can set a "goal" of making the most beautiful car on the road. That is something that just happens.

On the other hand, engineers can always set goals that are achievable through technology, through "science". Beauty is subjective and just may happen, performance is objective and is achievable.

This is not unlike what Nissan did with their GT-R, which is an 800 lb gorilla when it comes to outright performance but one would have to be a bit blind to call it sexy.

Now, the POINT IS THIS: Even with these early camo pictures, it is quite clear to me that the NSX replacement is unlikely to be either as homely as the GT-R or as sexy as my current NSX. That bothers me but little, because I can see that for the first time Honda is making an all out effort to make FOR THE ROAD AND FOR YOU AND ME, what appears to be an ENGINEER's car, A NO HOLDS technological tour de force, something that we have been dreaming and praying for the last many years! Something that we felt the bean counters at Honda were denying us.

A true enthusiast cannot and must not judge this next super car from Honda based solely on how it "looks" compared to our beloved NSX. It is possible that the NSX replacement may end up as being quite a handsome machine, but I am not concerned about that to any great degree. My entire focus is now at what Honda has cooking for us in the performance departement. The department that deals with the materials and the technology used , the power unleashed, the handling achieved, the assess whupped, the symphony of the exhaust and the beheading of the bean counters:biggrin:

Honda, a company known the world over for its ENGINEERING prowess has listened to the reasoning and logic of its PERFORMANCE fans all over the world. It is about to unleash a car that smells less of a compromise than any of its previous wonderful offerings. It is about to throw down the gauntlet and flex its mighty technological muscle.

Thanks for listening to your true believers Honda. Bring on the uber HONDA!

 

[WingZ]

Amen Brother Lift Amen!

 

[NSXBat]

not necassarily being the prettiest car on the road, but at being one of the best, at what it can DO on the road.

Do any of you own a 500hp+ car? I'd love to know, how you use it?

Can you get out of 2nd gear on the road without already being at 100mph?

Can you stretch the engine and enjoy the higher revs in 3rd gear on the street?
What is estimated top speed in 3rd on a sports car with the target weight and HP of this new Honda car?

Do any of the "track guys" get to the track at least once a month?

The only guy I know who has 500+ HP is a local Viper owner. He never drives his car because he says its too fast to have fun. I always see him in his Lotus Elise instead. Not sure what he has in the Elise (none of his cars are stock).

I ask these questions because I get the feeling that 90% of-the-time in these cars, you won't be going fast at all. The fun thing about Ferrari was that during that 90% of the time you are just driving around...at least you had Italian Art for people to look at. You had something to show for your BIG BUCKS $$$ SPENT.

In the top model-line Porsche you had the speed for when you needed it, but 90% of the time (driving to work, or with your wife or date in the car) you had the prestige of owning a famous luxury brand.... again something besides speed to justify spending (what amounts to the cost of a small vacation condo in Florida).

Yes the Nissan GT-R is ugly, but they priced the car cheap! You pay half of the price of a Ferrari or top Porsche....because they are selling you speed without beauty/art ....or prestige/upper class.

My only concern is for Honda... If they price this car at twice the price of the GT-R they need to offer more then just speed. Or what are you getting for the 90% of the time that you are just driving around at legal speed limits???

Lexus has made a name for themselves as a luxury brand. So I think their new super-car fits the successful model- SPEED, PLUS SOMETHING MORE, GETS THE BIG MONEY at the dealership $200k?

Maybe a way too look at it logically? THE SUPER CAR SUCCESS FORMULA-
- For the first $80,000 you get more speed then you can ever use on the street.
- For the second $80,000 Ferrari gives you art, Porsche gives you history and prestige, and Lexus gives you a name brand that has become a part of our consumer culture.

What will Honda do with the price? It will be interesting to watch. I hope they are successful! If its over $150k they need to offer something more than just speed...or their market will only be Die Hard Honda Fans and maybe smaller than the originalNSX run. ( The 1st NSX offered performance, quality, and exotic looks and unique mid-engine layout. That was a nice list of perks for the money.... during the 90% of-the-time that you weren't riding at over 120 mph)

 

[WingZ]

Do any of you own a 500hp+ car? I'd love to know, how do you use it?

Can you get out of 2nd gear on the road without already being at 100mph?

Can you stretch the engine and enjoy the higher revs in 3rd gear on the street?
What is estimated top speed in 3rd on a sports car with the target weight and HP of this new Honda car?

Do any of the "track guys" get to the track at least once a month?

The only guy I know who has 500+ HP is a local Viper owner. He never drives his car because he says its too fast to have fun. I always seem him in his Lotus Elise instead.

When Honda makes a 500+hp it will be able to drive like a regular car without all the stuff you have to deal with in other 500 hp cars.

I know you can't help trying to find some problem with this car but it will do to high hp cars what the NSX did to exotics in it's day when exotics weren't everyday drivers.

Yes I usually track once a month sometimes more if I find the time.

 

[brandonsan]

For me a car attracts me with it's technology, then driving experience and looks are last on my list. Dont get me wrong I do not want a ugly car like a GTR. Sorry GTR fans I think it is ugly. One reason why people don't realize it is a bargain is because Nissan is now one of the biggest bean counting businesses in the auto indusrty. Ever since Carlos Ghosn took over he has increased profitablility but at the same time he has removed the exitement from the brand. Every car is built on the FM platform, every car that has a V6 is a VQ engine and the 350Z shared a similar instrument cluster with the Altima and Maxima. Nissan didn't come up with a 70K GTR because of looks, they came up with a 70K car because it is not built with ALL exclusive parts.

I can't wait to see the NSX REPLACEMENT. I hope I love it because I do not want to go to the dark side and buy a Gallardo or 430. I don't think I can put up with the crap that goes along with the Italian cars. Granted the Gallardo has a lot of Audi parts so the reliablity should be a little better but Audi does not not have a stellar reputation for their electrical systems. Since I have worked with so many car companies (Audi, VW, Land Rover, Honda, Acura, Nissan and Lexus) I have realized one thing........................NO ONE BUILDS A CAR AS WELL AS HONDA......PERIOD. Honda is the most innovative and reliable car company. I cannot believe the problems the new Luxus models have. I would never buy one unless I got a GREAT deal.

I think one thing everyone forgets here is that when Honda built the NSX they did not sell as many as they anticipated. That coupled with the gentlemans agreement (300 HP limit) kept the car from advancing to current supercar levels. Honda agreed to purchase "x" amount of parts from each one of the part suppliers for the car. If they are not selling the number of cars that is projected (thats what happened) Honda still has to buy "x" # of parts per agreement with the suppliers. What does this mean ? Well you make the car unchanged for years until you fill your agreement with your parts vendors. Why would a SMART business make changes to a car in the aforementioned conditions ? It's easy for all of us to say Honda is weak and stupid for not changing the car for years but if you were in business why would you put more $ into a product that isn't making any money ? You wouldn't if you had any business sense. You would just fulfill your contracts with the parts suppliers and then YOU WORK ON A NEW CAR with a new formula.

Honda continues to promise the NEW car will be just as groundbreaking as the original. I hope this is true from my perspective because if it is I will buy one. Maybe it will sit right next to my NSX if I wait a few years and I will have the best of both worlds.

Oh yeah and NSXbat I would use the 500HP in the same manner I use my 400 RWHP. 8k in 1st-4th gear while I hang on with a ear to ear grin on my face ! :biggrin:

 

[liftcontrol]

Do any of you own a 500hp+ car? I'd love to know, how you use it?

I could ask you another question. Does anyone use the FULL potential of ANY car or van or SUV they own?

Does the person in their Toyota Landcruiser use it to its full potential? No they do not, but it is nice to know what they are driving.

Does my lovely wife even use her Honda Odyssey to its full potential of around 250 HP? Does the elderly man in the ZR-1 use it to half its potential? Does the teenager in his Honda Civic [with the tin can after market exhaust] use it to its full potential?

Even if Ayrton Senna was alive and let loose on the streets of a city, even he would not be able to drive the NSX, much less the upcoming NSX replacement to its full potential!

So the point is this: You do not buy these high performance cars so that you can realize their full potential day in and day out anymore than you can or should realize the full potential of even a mundane people hauling van. You purchase these machines for the way they make you feel. You purchase these machines because they represent the cutting edge. You purchase these mechanical marvels because you know these represent the distilled products of all the experience and know how of a group of people who are driven by the need to excell. It is the same reason one buys a patek Philippe to tell time when an ordinary Casio would do the job.

It is a work of art. Except this work of art you can drive around. It can growl for you, it can shriek in ecstasy for you. It can draw sweat on your brow and make your heart race like it did when you kissed that gorgeous girl for the first time. It can make you come alive! At that moment the money you paid for it would be meaningless. At that moment extracting the "full potential" out of that mechanical beast would not be remotely important or even significant.

 

[WingZ]

It is a work of art. Except this work of art you can drive around. It can growl for you, it can shriek in ecstasy for you. It can draw sweat on your brow and make your heart race like it did when you kissed that gorgeous girl for the first time. It can make you come alive!

Uh I now need a cigarette and a moment alone:biggrin:

 

[BD]

1. Do any of you own a 500hp+ car? I'd love to know, how you use it?

2. Can you get out of 2nd gear on the road without already being at 100mph?

3. Can you stretch the engine and enjoy the higher revs in 3rd gear on the street?

4. What is estimated top speed in 3rd on a sports car with the target weight and HP of this new Honda car?

5. Do any of the "track guys" get to the track at least once a month?

6. The only guy I know who has 500+ HP is a local Viper owner. He never drives his car because he says its too fast to have fun. I always see him in his Lotus Elise instead. Not sure what he has in the Elise (none of his cars are stock).

7. I ask these questions because I get the feeling that 90% of-the-time in these cars, you won't be going fast at all. The fun thing about Ferrari was that during that 90% of the time you are just driving around...at least you had Italian Art for people to look at. You had something to show for your BIG BUCKS $$$ SPENT.

8. In the top model-line Porsche you had the speed for when you needed it, but 90% of the time (driving to work, or with your wife or date in the car) you had the prestige of owning a famous luxury brand.... again something besides speed to justify spending (what amounts to the cost of a small vacation condo in Florida).

9. Yes the Nissan GT-R is ugly, but they priced the car cheap! You pay half of the price of a Ferrari or top Porsche....because they are selling you speed without beauty/art ....or prestige/upper class.

10. My only concern is for Honda... If they price this car at twice the price of the GT-R they need to offer more then just speed. Or what are you getting for the 90% of the time that you are just driving around at legal speed limits???

11. Lexus has made a name for themselves as a luxury brand. So I think their new super-car fits the successful model- SPEED, PLUS SOMETHING MORE, GETS THE BIG MONEY at the dealership $200k?

12. Maybe a way too look at it logically? THE SUPER CAR SUCCESS FORMULA-
- For the first $80,000 you get more speed then you can ever use on the street.
- For the second $80,000 Ferrari gives you art, Porsche gives you history and prestige, and Lexus gives you a name brand that has become a part of our consumer culture.

13. What will Honda do with the price? It will be interesting to watch. I hope they are successful! If its over $150k they need to offer something more than just speed...or their market will only be Die Hard Honda Fans and maybe smaller than the originalNSX run. ( The 1st NSX offered performance, quality, and exotic looks and unique mid-engine layout. That was a nice list of perks for the money.... during the 90% of-the-time that you weren't riding at over 120 mph)

To answers your questions:
1. No, but I have driven plenty, Ferrari and Lambo.
2. Absolutely, in case you are still stuck in the word of 3 speed muscle car, the new super cars have six or more cogs.
3. Absolutely, if you have the balls and willing to accept any punishment if busted by cops.
4. It will probably be similar to a NA2 NSX except the power will reach the top speed allowed by the gear ratios. Over 200mph.
5. Does it matter if the track guys get to track it? Do you track your NSX – One of the best tracks mobile in the world? If you don’t do it with the NSX, why would you do it with the ASC?
6. Viper drivers are afraid to drive their car hard because they know the car is NOT capable of handling the power. They push the car over the edge, they DIE!!!
7. Most of the Ferrari guys don’t know about Ferraris, they buy the car to get pussy. For some of them, it’s the only way.
8. It’s Honda, I buy it for my self, and I don’t care what other people think about the car I own. As long as I know it’s a one of the best car in the world, case closed.
9. Nissan GTR is not only ugly, it’s built in the same way they put together 350Z. If you’re looking for value, that’s the car for you. Before that, it was the Z06, and before that, it was the Viper. Do you know why people on this Forum wouldn’t even give those car a chance?
10. Honda does not need your concern, so save it. If you really are concern about Honda, you should do the right thing – Buy their car new, recommend their car to friends. Or… Just enjoy driving the Honda you have. Just appreciate what they have done for you. After all, I'm sure they didn't built the car for your personal needs, that's why there is a thing call competition. If you think GTR is the right buy, buy a GTR.
11. According to you, Lexus should sell their super car for $200 plus grand, 3 times the price of the GTR at similar performance, BUT Honda shouldn’t do it at twice the price when you know the car is going to be better built with exotic materials?
12. The Super Car success Formula with Logic: Built a car that is reliable, and capable of spanking any car in its class or higher, at a reasonably good price. If you want to get laid, you don’t need to buy a Porsche or Ferrari, a BMW 325 will do.
13. Only Die Hard Honda fan will buy the car new. People like you can join the party 18 years after it’s made. Mid-engine lay out in the NSX is NOT unique; it was a copy of Ferrari 308/328. Nothing is UNIQE in the auto world any more. Ever heard of Mister two/Mister Spider, Fiero - Yes, those are sub $22k car with mid engine - Do you feel special now? The only thing that matters is if the car out classes its competitors. I hope you’re not driving your car at over 120 mph 10% if the time, don’t you know that is very dangerous even in a Ferrari Enzo?

Trust me, if no one buys this car, Honda will not loose sleep over it. I bet the development cost of this car is less than six months of their F1 budget. One thing does matter: They will built this car as a statement, to out class the rivals. If this car can out perform a Ferrari 599 at half the price, the statement is made.



And one more thing.

I highly doubt Honda will need your suggestions considering how well they're doing.

 

[liftcontrol]

Uh I now need a cigarette and a moment alone:biggrin:

Phew........... Likewise:biggrin:

 

[BD]

Honda didn't make us a new MR toy:biggrin:

 

[liftcontrol]

To answers your questions:
8. It’s Honda, I buy it for my self, and I don’t care what other people think about the car I own. As long as I know it’s a one of the best car in the world, case closed.
9. Nissan GTR is not only ugly, it’s built in the same way they put together 350Z. If you’re looking for value, that’s the car for you. Before that, it was the Z06, and before that, it was the Viper. Do you know why people on this Forum wouldn’t even give those car a chance?

Good points:smile:

 

[johnnymo]

I bet the development cost of this car is less than six months of their F1 budget.

That shouldn't be hard.

In March 2007 F1 Racing published its annual estimates of spending by Formula One teams. The total spending of all eleven teams in 2006 was estimated at $2.9 billion. This was broken down as follows; Toyota $418.5 million, Ferrari $406.5 m, McLaren $402 m, Honda $380.5 m, BMW Sauber $355 m, Renault $324 m, Red Bull $252 m, Williams $195.5 m, Midland F1/Spyker-MF1 $120 m, Toro Rosso $75 m, and Super Aguri $57 million.

Considering the development budget of the Bugatti Veyron was $325 million, by a company without any significant racing experience or technology to translate to the roadgoing 1000+ hp realm, and that Honda had already spent 50% of their yearly F1 budgets on development of V10 engines, it's not a great mental leap to imagine the new car would come in under a $200 million budget.

 

[BD]

That shouldn't be hard.

In March 2007 F1 Racing published its annual estimates of spending by Formula One teams. The total spending of all eleven teams in 2006 was estimated at $2.9 billion. This was broken down as follows; Toyota $418.5 million, Ferrari $406.5 m, McLaren $402 m, Honda $380.5 m, BMW Sauber $355 m, Renault $324 m, Red Bull $252 m, Williams $195.5 m, Midland F1/Spyker-MF1 $120 m, Toro Rosso $75 m, and Super Aguri $57 million.

Considering the development budget of the Bugatti Veyron was $325 million, by a company without any significant racing experience or technology to translate to the roadgoing 1000+ hp realm, and that Honda had already spent 50% of their yearly F1 budgets on development of V10 engines, it's not a great mental leap to imagine the new car would come in under a $200 million budget.

The interesting thing is, this is going to be share chassis with the new Legend/RL. Right there along, they will save plenty.

 

[WingZ]

Honda didn't make us a new MR toy:biggrin:

Hey hey hey you stop that crying mister and go outside and drive your 600hp car or I'll give you something to cry about! LOL

 

[Vega$ NSX]

Do any of you own a 500hp+ car? I'd love to know, how you use it?

Can you get out of 2nd gear on the road without already being at 100mph?

Can you stretch the engine and enjoy the higher revs in 3rd gear on the street?

Do any of the "track guys" get to the track at least once a month?

1. Yes, my NSX is over 500 hp. I drive it for fun whenever the chance I get. I redline it liberally.
2. Yes. You don't have to do 0-100 mph runs all the time just to feel the hp. You can get just as much of a rush, doing a 20 mph blip of acceleration.
3. Yes, you just need to check for cops and turn the V1 on.
4. The car has never seen the track.

When I first got my NSX it was putting 237 rwhp on the ground and I thought it was the fastest thing in the world. Then after a while it didn't feel so fast. When I did my initial turbo, I was putting out a little under 400 rwhp and I thought it was the fastest thing in the world. Then after a while it didn't feel so fast. Now I'm putting about 450 rwhp, and right now it really doesn't feel that fast at all. The point being is that you become accustomed to higher hp and speed. 50 years ago, 70 mph felt like a rocket. Now with today's advanced saftey features and better technology, people drive 70 mph all day long while talking on the phone, drinking coffee and listening to the radio.

 

[liftcontrol]

If this is a reasonably true likeness of the face of the NSX replacement and it has the aforementioned qualities, then I have no problem with it.:smile:

At just over $100k, it would be a bargain.
At around $150k, it would be a good buy.

 

[WingZ]

If this is a reasonably ture likeness of the face of the NSX replacement and it has the aforementioned qualities, then I have no problem with it.:smile:

At just over $100k, it would be a bargain.
At around $150k, it would be a good buy.

In black that will look just EVIL ..LOL

 

[liftcontrol]

Darn thing looks like its ready to bite your rear end off if you don't get out of its way. And that is on a day when its feeling all prim and proper and gentleman like.
On a bad day it promises to tear you a brand new hole in the arse just on the basic principle that it can.:biggrin:

 

[colslaw87]

Good words...

That rendering is a bit busy. I think Honda will debut it's supercar without any official renderings. I've seen tons of those enthusiast renderings and haven't been to happy with them, who knows what it'll look like?

I'm happy that the first couple laps around the Nurburgring were only seconds off the GT-R (very good sign). With more tuning and preparation the new Honda supercar will be a gift from the gods.

 

[N Spec]

It is time for the true Honda enthusiasts to rejoice, for their prayers have been answered and Honda is finally returning to its roots. The time to lament the HSC which was DOA or whether or not Honda should have continued to develop the NSX chassis and upgraded it's peformance over the years is now a mute point. Honda is taking the higher road. Honda has seen the light.:biggrin:

People, be grateful and be joyful. This new car, that Honda is apparently ENGINEERING TO THE HILT, is aimed at not necassarily being the prettiest car on the road, but at being one of the best, if not the best, at what it can DO on the road. All those who have complained all these years about the NSX not having enough power, enough braking, enough handling etc. etc. are getting their wish. They are finally getting a drivers car that is being developed by engineers and not bean counters.:wink:

Beauty is a very subjective thing. No automaker can set a "goal" of making the most beautiful car on the road. That is something that just happens.

On the other hand, engineers can always set goals that are achievable through technology, through "science". Beauty is subjective and just may happen, performance is objective and is achievable.

This is not unlike what Nissan did with their GT-R, which is an 800 lb gorilla when it comes to outright performance but one would have to be a bit blind to call it sexy.

Now, the POINT IS THIS: Even with these early camo pictures, it is quite clear to me that the NSX replacement is unlikely to be either as homely as the GT-R or as sexy as my current NSX. That bothers me but little, because I can see that for the first time Honda is making an all out effort to make FOR THE ROAD AND FOR YOU AND ME, what appears to be an ENGINEER's car, A NO HOLDS technological tour de force, something that we have been dreaming and praying for the last many years! Something that we felt the bean counters at Honda were denying us.

A true enthusiast cannot and must not judge this next super car from Honda based solely on how it "looks" compared to our beloved NSX. It is possible that the NSX replacement may end up as being quite a handsome machine, but I am not concerned about that to any great degree. My entire focus is now at what Honda has cooking for us in the performance departement. The department that deals with the materials and the technology used , the power unleashed, the handling achieved, the assess whupped, the symphony of the exhaust and the beheading of the bean counters:biggrin:

Honda, a company known the world over for its ENGINEERING prowess has listened to the reasoning and logic of its PERFORMANCE fans all over the world. It is about to unleash a car that smells less of a compromise than any of its previous wonderful offerings. It is about to throw down the gauntlet and flex its mighty technological muscle.

Thanks for listening to your true believers Honda. Bring on the uber HONDA!

Screw that. Over engineering and unbalanced human factors design is worthless in today's world. It would have been okay to do this in the 80s, the 80s era proved to increase performance but yielded ugly-ass cars, hence there was no connection to the human taste/factor.

Honda seems to have dropped the ball as of recently with a lot of their lineups. The new Acuras are looking worse. Even their motorcycles are getting uglier. The new 2008 CBR1000RR/Fireblade, is engineered out the ass and everyone agrees that it has seen increase in acceleration and performance. Keep in mind that the superbike category is pushing the threshold and that the 4 main competitors are so close in performance each year that the differences in numbers are very little. Each year, one bike wins over all of the others by some small arbitrary decision. Everyone is deeming that the new Honda 1000RR is the best bike this year, but everyone also agrees it's ugly as ballsack.

The superbike category is a fine example of Honda's direction. These are the fastest bikes overall in the world, but they are all so close in performance and the key factor is that the riders are only capable of extracting a certain number because they are only human. Who cares if the new 1000RR is 2-3 seconds faster on the track or .2 sec faster on the 1/4 mile. That could be purely driver error. It's ugly as hell and I would rather ride the last gen 1000RR and still perform closely. This could be said the same about top performance cars of today, except they cost 10-20 times more than these bikes, so it is crucial that when you pay that much money, the engineering and design balance should be at an equilibrium.

I'm not saying that Honda will screw this new GT up, but their current track record is not looking so good evidently.

 

[gdae]

Wait. Let's go back a bit:

7. Most of the Ferrari guys don’t know about Ferraris, they buy the car to get pussy.

That works?

 

[BD]

Screw that. Over engineering and unbalanced human factors design is worthless in today's world. It would have been okay to do this in the 80s, the 80s era proved to increase performance but yielded ugly-ass cars, hence there was no connection to the human taste/factor.

First off, it will be actually "under engineered if it is sharing plat form with the new RL. "Over engineering" is probably more suitable for the NSX.

Unbalanced human factors design is strictly base on personal bias. One man's trash is another man's treasure. Just look at the good old 348, it is absolutely a POS but people are still willing to buy it used.

To some people, NSX is ugly. Just because you think it's good looking doesn't means it's good looking.

Be careful with what you wish for.... If they make a car that is just too pretty and you can't afford to buy one new, you will have to for 18 years when she's a old lady. You will have to suffer for 18 years.

"Fear leads to anger, Anger leads to hate, Hate leads to Suffering."? More clearer: "Fear is the path to the dark side.." ...

If you're in the market for a sports car after NSX, there are plenty of cars out there that are very capable. EVOX, STI, Neon SRT, 370Z; heck, let's add in the R8, and GTR.... All of them are.... Cosmetically challenged... AKA... Ugly.
:wink:

 

[N Spec]

First off, it will be actually "under engineered if it is sharing plat form with the new RL. "Over engineering" is probably more suitable for the NSX.

Unbalanced human factors design is strictly base on personal bias. One man's trash is another man's treasure. Just look at the good old 348, it is absolutely a POS but people are still willing to buy it used.

To some people, NSX is ugly. Just because you think it's good looking doesn't means it's good looking.

Be careful with what you wish for.... If they make a car that is just too pretty and you can't afford to buy one new, you will have to for 18 years when she's a old lady. You will have to suffer for 18 years.

"Fear leads to anger, Anger leads to hate, Hate leads to Suffering."? More clearer: "Fear is the path to the dark side.." ...

If you're in the market for a sports car after NSX, there are plenty of cars out there that are very capable. EVOX, STI, Neon SRT, 370Z; heck, let's add in the R8, and GTR.... All of them are.... Cosmetically challenged... AKA... Ugly.
:wink:

Haha, I've already joined the "Darkside" and so have you. Hey, if I can't afford it now, I will get it later down the line if it actually is a good looking car. I am a patient guy and I'm driving around in 13 year old car and a 18 year old car before, so I have no issues with it.

I wasn't even comparing this new GT to the new NSX anymore. I already gotten thru my head that it is a new GT and has nothing to do with NSX so I'm not having it try to live up to anything. I just question Honda's recent track record on making better than average looking cars.

I agree with you on the last paragraph, in which you just described the current sport car gen, where all of them are ugly. Hopefully this era of ugly cars will pass by 2010. They are all over-engineered in the sense that engineering takes precedent over aesthetics by far. The 90s has a good balance of engineering and design, atleast for the Japanese anyways. Now safety engineering pretty much just ruined the shape of sports cars as we know.

 

[liftcontrol]

Screw that. Over engineering.... is worthless in today's world. .

Over engineering is NEVER worthless. Not today, not yesterday and not tomorrow. Over engineering is what produced the bullet proof Benz cars of the 60's and 70's. Over engineering is what gave Honda and Toyota their status as the ultimate cars in reliability.

Over engineering for reliability and longevity works. Over engineering for extreme performance works as shown by the Honda F1 engines.

On the other hand OVERSTYLING is worthless. TRYING too hard to make a BEAUTIFUL car is also a worthless exercise in futility.

Heck if Honda wants my dollar for this car and their selling point is superlative performance, they had BETTER OVERENGINEER the car! I expect it, the enthusiasts expect it, WE DEMAND IT! That is the very difference between a performance car that HONDA builds and one that is built by anyone else.

Of course HONDA has made us all wait for what seems like ever to finally decide to do the right thing. But with the way they are approaching their next super car, they clearly want to remedy that. What is wrong with that?

I repeat:

"It is time for the true Honda enthusiasts to rejoice, for their prayers have been answered and Honda is finally returning to its roots. The time to lament the HSC which was DOA or whether or not Honda should have continued to develop the NSX chassis and upgraded it's peformance over the years is now a mute point. Honda is taking the higher road. Honda has seen the light.

People, be grateful and be joyful. This new car, that Honda is apparently ENGINEERING TO THE HILT, is aimed at not necassarily being the prettiest car on the road, but at being one of the best, if not the best, at what it can DO on the road. All those who have complained all these years about the NSX not having enough power, enough braking, enough handling etc. etc. are getting their wish. They are finally getting a drivers car that is being developed by engineers and not bean counters."
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Screw that, you say!? What, srew Honda's return to what they do best?

 

[WingZ]

Haha, I've already joined the "Darkside" and so have you.

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I wasn't even comparing this new GT to the new NSX anymore. I already gotten thru my head that it is a new GT and has nothing to do with NSX so I'm not having it try to live up to anything.

Yeah I think this is what a lot of folks here are having a hard time doing. What I can never understand is why bash this new car instead of just moving on to whatever other MR or FR car you do like. Lifes too short to waste time being negative all the time:biggrin: