The Official 2013 F1 Thread...

is ferrari still going with pull rods?
 
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There was a full discussion of this ten months ago here: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/03/28/ferraris-front-pullrod-suspension/

The pertinent paragraphs are these: (each paragraph below appears in its own line when displayed on my newly bought and absolutely amazing DELL ULTRASHARP U2713HM, 27IN MONITOR)

The next illustration shows a pull-rod set-up. The components and function are the same.

There are two differences: the suspension arm is connected from the top of the upright to the bottom of the chassis, and the internal components are lower in the chassis.

This set-up has two advantages over the push-rod. By placing the suspension components closer to the ground the centre of gravity is lower. Also the suspension arm is better able to condition airflow from the front wing towards the sidepod so in theory there is a small aerodynamic gain.

However, the chassis shape is constrained by FIA guidelines so the aero gain is not as great as it is when pull-rod suspension is used at the rear of the car.

There are two main disadvantages to front pull-rod suspension. One is that the the upper wishbone must transmit more load, some of which would otherwise have been carried by the push-rod. This means the chassis and wishbone needs to be strengthened – see the yellow circle. This adds weight and negates somewhat the CoG gain.

The second disadvantage is it takes longer tune a pull-rod. This is important given the limited testing time in F1 today. Teams need to rapidly tune spring and damper settings and if the components are hidden away this is trickier and potentially reduces valuable track time.

In summary the net benefit of switching to a pull-rod is a (very) small aero gain at the expense of tuning simplicity. The final illustration shows the pull-rod and push-rod side-by-side and the difference in geometry and CoG are apparent.

However, Gary Anderson raised an interesting point in Autosport that may further comprise the front pull-rod set-up.

By connecting the push-rod to the wheel upright the driver can use steering angle to affect the suspension. Under steering the natural movement of the push-rod reduce load transfer across the chassis and effectively allows a softer set-up.

The opposite happens with a front pull-rod so it is connected to the wishbone rather than the upright to counter this effect. Hence all else being equal you need to run a stiffer suspension set-up which compromises mechanical grip.

In short, Anderson’s assertion is that the pull-rod also has mechanical compromises that more than offset the (small) aero gains.

Without having access to a dynamo data and proper car models, quantifying the effect is difficult. But the logic appears sound. There is no doubt that when Red Bull introduced the rear pull-rod with success teams will have evaluated a front pull-rod set-up as well. That only one team has adopted it suggests if there is a gain it likely is not worth the hassle.
Click to expand...
 
An ex-Honda employee was at the McLaren factory, buying a P1 [some peoples have the worst of times :biggrin:], when he ran into some old faces from Honda big brass also visiting the McLaren factory. It seems there are some high level discussions going on over there............................
 
sadlerau said:
An ex-Honda employee was at the McLaren factory, buying a P1 [some peoples have the worst of times :biggrin:], when he ran into some old faces from Honda big brass also visiting the McLaren factory. It seems there are some high level discussions going on over there............................
Click to expand...
Please ... I want to hear more ... go on!
 
myhui said:
Please ... I want to hear more ... go on!
Click to expand...

There is not anymore to say at this stage, but if it were to happen we will hear about it very soon, because the engines for 2014 will be coming out very soon. McLaren need to have it finalised in the next couple of months to allow them to finish off their design/installation for the up coming testing season. Obviously they will not want to loose a minute of track time with any new drivetrain.

According to the poster on Temple of Vtec, the problem for Honda is they have no history with Direct Injection at the very high pressures required in F1. It would seem they would not have a power plant ready until well into next season which obviously wouldn't do for McLaren - and a solution being worked on is to have Magneti Marelli, who do have the DI experience come to the party with their equipment. Would Honda go down this path??
 
Here's to the McLaren boys, with my two favorite drivers in the same team now!! Button and Perez!!
Although I would love to see either of the McLaren drivers get the WDC, I wouldn't mind seeing Alonso take a third either.
Hope Kimi's car is much improved as well.

I don't see MercHam fighting for the championship.
 
F1 launches used to be this fancy?

1360669595.jpg

I somehow missed all that hoopla ... maybe for the better.

Good piece on Autosport on this topic, quoting McLaren's Martin Whitmarsh: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105537

- - - Updated - - -

HMC announced their withdrawal from F1 Racing on December 5, 2008. I bought HMC stock on December 9, 2008. I thought their withdrawing from F1 was a brilliant decision at the time, so I bought their stock. Look at HMC now! Can I buy The McLaren Group's stock?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/05/business/worldbusiness/05iht-05honda.18427506.html

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=HMC&t=5y&l=on&z=l&q=l&c=
 
One month away and i don't have a way to watch.
Sadly Dish network puts NBC Sports channel in is most premium package, I can't justify $30 a month just for the races.
A delay to watch (more than 3-4) is ok but waiting for days doesn't work for me. I can follow the live commentary on f1, bit really want to watch them live.
Any streaming suggestions?
Miner
 
Torrents. The races are uploaded within a few hours after they are broadcast. Sure you can stream, but the quality sucks big time. Besides, I rather watch the races uninterrupted, commercial free, with great commentary from the BBC or SkySports. ;)
 
I think i can live w/ a torrent. Im not real up on them but can figure it out. I had hoped somebody would stream through adthe.tv (or the like) but so far your suggestion may be the best choice for now. Maybe NBC will make them avail online too.
miner
 
I know it's just testing, but go Checo!!

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2013/2/14279.html

Unofficial Wednesday test times from Barcelona:
1. Sergio Perez, McLaren, 1:21.848, 97 laps
2. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 1:22.197, 84 laps
3. Kimi Raikkonen, Lotus, 1:22.697, 43 laps
4. Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes, 1:22.726, 121 laps
5. Fernando Alonso, Ferrari, 1:23.247, 76 laps
6. Valtteri Bottas, Williams, 1:23.561, 98 laps
7. Daniel Ricciardo, Toro Rosso, 1:23.718, 70 laps
8. Paul di Resta, Force India, 1:23.971, 62 laps
9. Nico Hulkenberg, Sauber, 1:24.205, 88 laps
10. Max Chilton, Marussia, 1:25.115, 67 laps
11. Charles Pic, Caterham, 1:26.243, 102 laps
 
Watching F1

For most of the races last year I visit formula1.com right after the race and scroll through the commentary and view the lap charts. It only takes ten minutes. If I want to know the race's progress in real time, I'll launch the Java window and read the commentary as the race went on.
 
silverNEEK said:
Interesting article, sounds like Honda thinking about being the engine supplier for McLaren in 2015:

"McLaren poised to switch to Honda engines for 2015 season"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21655985
Click to expand...

See post 34 above. That and the fact Gilles Simon who helped develop the current V6 FI engine rules for the FIA, and was working for Craig Pollock and his supposed engine company until it went belly up recently, is rumored to be working for Honda currently as well. Starting to add up. Problem is McLaren may not be able to get Mercedes engines for 2014, if it is signing up with Honda for 2015, so it has been stated elsewhere that is the current sticking point in negotiations.
 

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