The Official 2013 F1 Thread...

[Blackhorse06]

The way he handled himself after vittles stole his win was remarkable. He's going to a great racing organization.

I am no Vettel apologist by any means, but how anyone can be pissed at Vettel for making that pass. Team orders are BS. If you are fast enough to win, then be fast enough to not get passed. I am one of the biggest Senna fans there is, and if you believe Ayrton would not have done the same thing (See San Marino 1989) then you are kidding yourself. That is why the really nice guys never win championships (Coulthard\Webber\Berger...). It's not that they are not great drivers, but it takes a certain ruthlessness to win an F1 crown.

The great Drivers always position themselves in the right place at the right time and take full advantage of what they are given. I also understand how being a fan affects how we feel, believe me, no one will ever convince me otherwise that Ayrton Senna was not the greatest F1 driver of all time. That said, I just sit back and watch as another driver (like it or not) carves his way into the record books. Tell me...You wouldn't switch your talent for that of Vettels', I would do it in a heartbeat!


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[Ponyboy]

BTW, which MLP is your favorite Pony?

Peeps have favorites?

I am no Vettel apologist by any means, but how anyone can be pissed at Vettel for making that pass.

B/c he disobeyed team orders. It's the equivalent of a sucker punch when one boxer has his gloves down. Webber was told of the team orders and his engine was powered down - vittles told the team to move Webber and when they didn't, he went right past anyway. I don't like team orders at all but if both drivers agree to it and one betrays the confidence of the team, I don't see how someone wouldn't consider that act deceitful, cowardly, and dishonorable. Not attractive qualities.

The analogies to Senna and Schumacher (no saints themselves) don't apply b/c they didn't do that. Fought tooth and nails with their teammates and other drivers sure but not the rules from the team. Make no mistake, vittles is no arch villain or the devil incarnate but he's not some shining white knight sent by the driving gods either. Actually, for me, that single race made me apathetic about the whole season.

 

[JD Cross]

I am no Vettel apologist by any means, but how anyone can be pissed at Vettel for making that pass........The great Drivers always position themselves in the right place at the right time and take full advantage of what they are given. I also understand how being a fan affects how we feel, believe me, no one will ever convince me otherwise that Ayrton Senna was not the greatest F1 driver of all time.

No disputing Vettel is a great driver, but perhaps, after ignoring team orders and passing Webber, we learned he's not a great human being.
I believe that's why he is booed at the races.

 

[myhui]

MLP is always streaming at my home Wi-Fi.

 

[myhui]

Of course it was!
Webber was and is a class act. The way he handled himself after vittles stole his win was remarkable. He's going to a great racing organization.

While it is true that German teams put more emphasis on organization and hierarchy, like Porsche no doubt will, that quality may hinder them sometimes instead of help them.

 

[NSXrebel]

Peeps have favorites?

touche

B/c he disobeyed team orders. It's the equivalent of a sucker punch when one boxer has his gloves down. Webber was told of the team orders and his engine was powered down - vittles told the team to move Webber and when they didn't, he went right past anyway. I don't like team orders at all but if both drivers agree to it and one betrays the confidence of the team, I don't see how someone wouldn't consider that act deceitful, cowardly, and dishonorable. Not attractive qualities.

The analogies to Senna and Schumacher (no saints themselves) don't apply b/c they didn't do that. Fought tooth and nails with their teammates and other drivers sure but not the rules from the team. Make no mistake, vittles is no arch villain or the devil incarnate but he's not some shining white knight sent by the driving gods either. Actually, for me, that single race made me apathetic about the whole season.

Not only that, but Vettel already had a points lead, and we knew he would be dominating the season. Why not give Webber a win?? Vettel would still have been in the lead had he conceded the win.Douchebag.

MLP is always streaming at my home Wi-Fi.

Same here. I've seen some good stuff on youtube where people make up their own episodes.

 

[dquarasr2]

B/c he disobeyed team orders. It's the equivalent of a sucker punch when one boxer has his gloves down. Webber was told of the team orders and his engine was powered down - vittles told the team to move Webber and when they didn't, he went right past anyway. I don't like team orders at all but if both drivers agree to it and one betrays the confidence of the team, I don't see how someone wouldn't consider that act deceitful, cowardly, and dishonorable. Not attractive qualities.

I'm in total agreement. And here's another aspect to team orders: not saying this was the case in this situation, but the team is receiving oodles of telemetry data and if they provide an instruction it is to be followed. How did Vettel know there was or wasn't a condition and a very good reason for holding station? He can't decide at his whim which orders to obey and which to ignore.

See: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=0NePUqrNFNKikQe7pYHIDA&ved=0CC8Q9QEwAQ

 

[Ponyboy]

While it is true that German teams put more emphasis on organization and hierarchy, like Porsche no doubt will, that quality may hinder them sometimes instead of help them.

Like many things in life, what is your strength can be your weakness if not balanced. Fortunately, Germans can be appealed to via data, data, and more data. In addition, German business culture typically also includes an informal decision hierarchy that is just as strong as the formal.

I think Webber is making a smart move albeit at the cost of his F1 career. VW and Porsche have higher motorsport aspirations and the conviction to get to their goal.

 

[Blackhorse06]

The analogies to Senna and Schumacher (no saints themselves) don't apply b/c they didn't do that. Fought tooth and nails with their teammates and other drivers sure but not the rules from the team.

Yes they did. The agreement between Senna and Prost at San Marino in 89 is what tore the entire team and driver relationship apart. The agreement between Schumacher and Barichello in Austria/USA and others. Hakkiennen and Coulthard in Austrailia, the list goes on. Racing is about who is fastest not about what is decided BEFORE the race. Again, if you are fast enough to win, then win the damn race. Team orders be damned! Call it what you will "deceitful, cowardly, and dishonorable" these guys are World Champions! Like it or not, these guys are all that...That's why they win championships!

 

[Sandro]

I'm with Ponyboy. BTW, Senna showed more talent in inferior equipment than Vettel has.

BTW, which MLP is your favorite Pony?

Guys you know my opinion.
Senna.Senna is special one.I recommend his movie.


P.S. think that no one here like team orders!

 

[Sandro]

Ross Brawn in Ferrari again!

 

[Miner]

Mercifully the season is over. Congrats to RB, Ferrari just didn't have the team together to improve the car over the season.

 

[bboxer]

It has and always will be a Drivers Championship FIRST. Congrats to Seb.

 

[Sandro]

The whole race I was waiting for the rain.:frown:

 

[myhui]

Ross Brawn in Ferrari again!

Are you sure? Now that the last race is over, let the silly season begin in earnest.

 

[NSXrebel]

Ah yes, silly season! I was happy to see the Maccas doing a lot better and both cars ending in the points. Jenson had the drive of the race with a solid 4th place finish. Too bad they couldn't have had that pace all year long.

bring on the twin turbos, all hail megatron!

 

[Sandro]

Are you sure? Now that the last race is over, let the silly season begin in earnest.

From Alonso's FB profile.He said Ross may come to Ferrari.

 

[92 white 0650]

Maybe they need a laid back guy like Ross to connect with and handle Mr. "Leave me alone, I know what I'm doing" ??

 

[nsxsimon]

From Alonso's FB profile.He said Ross may come to Ferrari.

Since Domenicali replaced Todt, Ferrari have been on a slight decline ever since.. I think he's just not an effective leader.

 

[Ponyboy]

Maybe they need a laid back guy like Ross to connect with and handle Mr. "Leave me alone, I know what I'm doing" ??

Best t-shirt ever. I'm not sure Kimi connects with anyone or anything outside of a bottle of Grey Goose.

IMHO, Ross Brawn was great for Fezza but this isn't the Fezza of the 2000's and this isn't the F1 of tester year. I like the idea and it's implications but I'd be wary that the entrance of Brawn as savior.

 

[Blackhorse06]

IMHO, Ross Brawn was great for Fezza but this isn't the Fezza of the 2000's and this isn't the F1 of tester year. I like the idea and it's implications but I'd be wary that the entrance of Brawn as savior.

Agreed! Brawn does not need the headache that is Ferrari! He is leaving a team that is headed in somewhat the same direction. Too many Managers that answer to too many people who tend to pull in the wrong direction. I would love to see Brawn go to someone like Force India or Lotus, one of those teams where he can put together his type of team. My first pick would be McLaren, but I don't think that is going to happen.

 

[Ponyboy]

Fare thee well, v8 and 22k rpm:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/cFUHbeIsOCI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[myhui]

Since Domenicali replaced Todt, Ferrari have been on a slight decline ever since.. I think he's just not an effective leader.

I fully agree. He seems just all over the place on race weekends, not sure what he can do that contributes the most to the team.

 

[sadlerau]

If nothing else Webber was a true gentleman, and as an Australian I'm proud of his achievements in F1, and the way he conducted himself. From the very start he dominated his teammates, until Vettel came along. Even then, the first couple of years he matched Vettel lap for lap. But encroaching age, and I think the realization that he did not match Vettel's ruthlessness, in the end hastened his will to retire. I trust he'll do marvelously in LMP with Porsche [as long as we don't have anymore low flying racing cars ]

Bring on 2014, and another Aussie [to whom I have a personal affiliation, in that his father is a business associate of mine] whom the world will love because he is an all round nice person. Which probably precludes him ever winning a world championship.

 

[NSXrebel]

If nothing else Webber was a true gentleman, and as an Australian I'm proud of his achievements in F1, and the way he conducted himself. From the very start he dominated his teammates, until Vettel came along. Even then, the first couple of years he matched Vettel lap for lap. But encroaching age, and I think the realization that he did not match Vettel's ruthlessness, in the end hastened his will to retire. I trust he'll do marvelously in LMP with Porsche [as long as we don't have anymore low flying racing cars ]

Bring on 2014, and another Aussie [to whom I have a personal affiliation, in that his father is a business associate of mine] whom the world will love because he is an all round nice person. Which probably precludes him ever winning a world championship.

Jenson Button is another one of those gentlemen and he won a world championship.