But what if the Honda-powered McLaren race car is slow to the point of being ridiculous, and Honda pulls out of F1 again? How will the F1 world look like if that happens?
The Official 2013 F1 Thread...
- Thread starter SFNSXguy
- Start date
Honda didn't pull out of F1 b/c they were slow. In fact, they doubled down and produced the quickest chassis the following season. Given that they'll be able to test their engine without being limited to F1 limits and regulations, the weakest link will likely be the McLaren chassis. I'd give them pretty good odds to be one of the better power plants in 2015.
Not their 1st rodeo...
I think Honda and Nissan are the reigning experts in V6 power and Honda has as much experience as anyone in V6 turbo F1 engines.
With the new F1 engine formula being a 90 degree engine Honda also has the C30/32 experience that I don't think any other manufacturer has.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Honda F1 engine became the benchmark powerplant.
It's all coming together.
A new NSX.
A new F1 engine.
Honda is on it's way back from the wilderness
With the new F1 engine formula being a 90 degree engine Honda also has the C30/32 experience that I don't think any other manufacturer has.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Honda F1 engine became the benchmark powerplant.
It's all coming together.
A new NSX.
A new F1 engine.
Honda is on it's way back from the wilderness
I want to believe. I really do, but with all the money Ferrari and Red Bull are going to throw into research I'm sure by half season any advantage Honda will have in the beginning will be much less if any by then.
We all have also seen the chassis mclaren is running with this year and how uncompetitive it is. Like mentioned above it will be a limiting factor if something's not done next year.
I wonder though if mclaren will keep trying to develope this chassis or scrap it and start over.
We all have also seen the chassis mclaren is running with this year and how uncompetitive it is. Like mentioned above it will be a limiting factor if something's not done next year.
I wonder though if mclaren will keep trying to develope this chassis or scrap it and start over.
I'm afraid to say that the C30A and C32B, as good as they are, are old technology and about as relevant to prospective F1 technology as radial tires compared to the current Pirellis. It's a 20 year+ advancement in engine theory and design. I'm sure it'll be good though. Ito is trying to make up for lost time from the worldwide economic crisis and Honda's last pullout.
Red Bull and Ferrari will be limited by the amount of testing they'll be able to perform while Honda won't be bound by those parameters. McLaren actually had the best chassis last year but went too radical. From what I've read, McLaren already decided put the majority of development work on next year's car and less on this years about a month ago. There's too much incentive money to not put some emphasis on doing well this season.
I agree the C30/32 is old technology.
However building a 90 degree V6 to live at 15 k rpm for 4-6 races is probably much different than doing the same with a 60 degree V6.
The demands on the crankshaft and the block will be much different on the 90 degree engine and it's in this area I think Honda has more current data than the others.
The specs for the new engine are very tightly limited, intentionally by the FIA. Most of the potential gains are going to be from implementing the new KERS/TERS and mapping for minimum fuel use. Honda may well be very good at this, but if the current engines are anything to go by, the FIA will allow modifications to equalize the power between the different brands for a limited time. They have already said they intend to freeze engine development pretty soon after the new engines hit the track.
The rpm limit in the rules isn't going to be the actual rpm limit most of the time, either. I think it's supposed to be 15k, but the fuel flow limit makes 11-12k the limit for efficiency. This does leave a big margin for overtaking if you want to gear it a bit short, I guess, but the normal loads on the engine are going to be lower.
I miss the old days, when Ferrari brought different engines for practice, qualifying, and the race, and nobody was certain they wouldn't end the race in a huge cloud of smoke at the side of the track.
The rpm limit in the rules isn't going to be the actual rpm limit most of the time, either. I think it's supposed to be 15k, but the fuel flow limit makes 11-12k the limit for efficiency. This does leave a big margin for overtaking if you want to gear it a bit short, I guess, but the normal loads on the engine are going to be lower.
I miss the old days, when Ferrari brought different engines for practice, qualifying, and the race, and nobody was certain they wouldn't end the race in a huge cloud of smoke at the side of the track.
Last edited:
And then there was this iconic picture of Honda's engine chief talking in depth with Senna at track side.
In terms of romance, nothing so far has topped that in the F1 world.
Yes, it is a sport, but F1 is a show too.
In terms of romance, nothing so far has topped that in the F1 world.
Yes, it is a sport, but F1 is a show too.
13 is turning out to be another disappointing Ferrari season. If FA jumps ship, Massa may be the number 1 with who?
How about Rosberg to Ferrari, Kimi to Mercedes, then a year later Vettel to Ferrari replacing Massa?
I find it hilarious that 5 of the 8 awkward clips were of Kimi. "Yes, yes, yes. I know what I am doing."
That would be interesting. I don't know if SV is ready to go to Ferrari, not at least whilst he's winning. Maybe if A Newey comes along it would work, it would be Schu and co, 20 years later.
But Newey was not at Ferrari when Schumacher was winning back to back world championships.
I think it is pretty risky to move to any team just before the major new regs are introduced. Who is to know whether the Redbull will still be the car to beat next year? Rory Byrne has returned to Ferrari and is apparently working 'flat out' on the 2014 Ferrari. Looking forward to seeing if he still has some magic!
I meant J Todt, Rory Byrne, and Ross Brawn. All came to Ferari at the same time and created quite a dynasty.
This is all from condensing rumors over the years in various F1 news sources and discussions, but I get the feeling that the big reason for success stories like Brawn/Ferrari, Brawn/Honda, and Newey/Redbull is that people stop screwing with them. That is, when someone is clearly in charge who either knows how to design a car or direct one or two top people who know how, it works better than design by committee or a good designer constantly having to answer to a non-technical boss.
Ferrari had a long period of pretty bad results, until they brought Schumacher in. I don't know offhand if Brawn and Todt came in before or after him, but when the Italians got out of their way and just let them do their thing, they started winning. From the press releases and news stories over the years since Schumacher/Brawn/Todt left, it sounds like the Italians are screwing with the team to make sure nobody else has control over how Ferrari works, and the performance of the cars suffers.
When Brawn went to Honda and that year's car sucked, it had of course been designed the year before, like all F1 cars. I remember reading something from Brawn, though, that said the Honda environment was a terrible example of design by committee, with various engineering groups putting out product that would work well by itself but conflict with everything else on the car. Brawn changed the structure of the design team, and the next year they won the title even after Honda pulled out. How much the double diffuser had to do with their performance we may never know, but they weren't the only team to have that, either.
I think currently the Red Bull team is just letting Newey do whatever he wants, and they've lobbied well to keep aero from being limited in the rules, as that's his strong point. If Byrne gets to Ferrari and DiMontezemolo never sets foot in his office or bugs him on the phone, then there may be hope yet.
Ferrari had a long period of pretty bad results, until they brought Schumacher in. I don't know offhand if Brawn and Todt came in before or after him, but when the Italians got out of their way and just let them do their thing, they started winning. From the press releases and news stories over the years since Schumacher/Brawn/Todt left, it sounds like the Italians are screwing with the team to make sure nobody else has control over how Ferrari works, and the performance of the cars suffers.
When Brawn went to Honda and that year's car sucked, it had of course been designed the year before, like all F1 cars. I remember reading something from Brawn, though, that said the Honda environment was a terrible example of design by committee, with various engineering groups putting out product that would work well by itself but conflict with everything else on the car. Brawn changed the structure of the design team, and the next year they won the title even after Honda pulled out. How much the double diffuser had to do with their performance we may never know, but they weren't the only team to have that, either.
I think currently the Red Bull team is just letting Newey do whatever he wants, and they've lobbied well to keep aero from being limited in the rules, as that's his strong point. If Byrne gets to Ferrari and DiMontezemolo never sets foot in his office or bugs him on the phone, then there may be hope yet.
Interesting article of an applied mathematician analysis of what it takes to get to F1.
http://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2013/08/02/its-a-long-way-to-the-top/
Cliffs: still reading it!
http://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2013/08/02/its-a-long-way-to-the-top/
Cliffs: still reading it!
press release from Honda last month nothing much but anyway...
http://world.honda.com/news/2013/c130711F1-Racing-Operation-base-Europe/index.html?from=r
http://world.honda.com/news/2013/c130711F1-Racing-Operation-base-Europe/index.html?from=r
Guys,
Peter Windsor did a great show discussing the 2014 F1 engine....very interesting
http://m.youtube.com/#/user/peterwindsor?&desktop_uri=/user/peterwindsor
Bram
Peter Windsor did a great show discussing the 2014 F1 engine....very interesting
http://m.youtube.com/#/user/peterwindsor?&desktop_uri=/user/peterwindsor
Bram
Let's get back to racing! Spa is finally here, after this long summer break. Go Ferrari!
My bet is.... LH and Merc for the win.
Bram
Bram
Last edited:
What he ^ said. : - )
Kimi and lotus.
I also hope Kimi stays at lotus
I also hope Kimi stays at lotus
