The alternative cheap track car: MR2 Turbo vs. 986 Boxster vs. ????

[bngl3rt]

As some of you know I have decided to retire my NSX from track duty after five short days and one painful farming excursion.

The purpose of an HPDE car (not a race car) is to make you a better driver. The NSX certainly does that when tracked.

I'm not expecting NSX levels of track performance for $5000, but what I am looking for is the best combination of a car that will help me improve my driving skills while being relatively cheap to purchase and operate.

I do think driving an NSX has given me a very high standard by which to judge other cars...

​Cars I have already driven
Miata - driven many (from a street one to a Spec Miata on slicks) - yawn. I know these are the go-to for wheel-to-wheel racing because they're dirty cheap to buy and fix. However I'm not wheel to wheel racing - I'm HPDEing - and it really doesn't feel like a very good car for that. Way too slow when you're out with anything other than a bunch of other Miatas. Engine in the wrong place.

S2000 - driven one - it felt like a much better, faster, more well-made, more competent Miata to me. However for the $15,000 or so I'd have to spend to get a track-ready one, it didn't sell itself to me. As I said to my friends, "it doesn't speak to me". Engine in the wrong place. Yes, the power band is similar to the NSX, but at least the NSX has a *little* mid range torque for tooling around town when you don't want to redline every shift. No such luck in the S2k

2007 Cayman (base 2.7L) - driven one - This spoke to me much more than the S2000 - but was also listed at $25,000. That's pretty steep to get in (if I'm going to spend that I might as well get a second beat-up NSX for track use), and apparently these Caymans do fall apart if you track them hard enough. Eventually you're out a motor, etc.

Cars I have yet to drive

MR2 Turbo - cheap to run, cheap to make power in. People are all over the place on the handling, which sounds like it can be pretty good with the correct alignment, and pretty pants-s**tingly bad otherwise. Aftermarket support seems pretty good despite the car's age. Can get a decent one for $5000.

986 Boxster 2.5 - not cheap to run, not cheap to make power in, but pretty well set up stock, and easily turned into a Spec Boxster race car when the time comes. Can get a decent one for $6000, + a $700 partial roll cage since it's a soft-top

What have I missed?

 

[kaede]

I have owned and driven 2 MR2's (aw11 - supercharged and sw20 turbo) and I'll say stay away from the SW20 Turbo for track duties especially if you're looking to increase the power. As for the AW11, its actually a much more tamed (but still fun) car to drive on the track. Just the perfect amount of power to weight ratio as long as your suspension bits are a bit stiffen up. The SW20 is quite a fun little car around town but on the track, it is horrid. The increased power + the still very short wheel base & MR set up = nightmare. Takes a lot of skills to drive and a MUCH needed upgrade in most aspects of the suspension (which i didnt because i didn't want to spend the $$$).

Also, even if the car is not MR/RR doesn't really mean the engine is in the "wrong" place lol. Personal preference tho! so whatever makes you happy! honestly there will be no "cheap" MR car around, cheapest i can think of that is competent will be a Lotus Elise (some going for cheap $2x,xxx ish).

Some other cars that come to mind:

Integra Type R (bit more expensive) - but AWESOME track car stock outta the box. hard to find one that isn't abused tho, and if you do, will cost ya. Also that is if you don't mind FR, mind you, still the BEST FR car I have ever driven for track and i still do!!

RX-7 FC3S (GXL or Turbo) - very good cheap learner car. Horrid of fuel economy for DD, but for track purposes, its a very awesome car. Great balance, high revving, lightweight'ish car.

E36 M3 (gonna cost ya... but better alternative to the porsche you mentioned, go drive one and see for yourself. Gut one out and you've got yourself an awesome lightweight euro track car)

Cheers!

 

[ntenseone]

I've heard bad things about sheet metal ripping in the BMW's if you're tracking them. Not sure I'd be up for something like that.

The RX-7 idea is a good one.

But for the money, the S2000 is going to be the bee's knees and here is why...if you look hard enough, you can find one for $6-7000 with some mileage on it, and with good compression numbers, who cares about the miles? It's 50/50 weight distribution makes it perfect for the track, no matter the fact that the engine is in the front. They're super easy to work on, and in my opinion, the steering and shifter are so sharp that they make the NSX feel lazy in comparison. Honestly, I owned one for over 6yrs before I got my NSX, and I was pretty disappointed in that department by the NSX. They're nimble, they don't cost an arm and a leg to modify or maintain, and with a good suspension and tires, you cannot go wrong. It might not have abundant power, but once on the track, that is where it is best suited, and with the momentum you can carry through corners in it, you don't need monster power figures to get the job done.

That's just my take on it, though.

 

[Vanishing Point]

+1 on the S2000, the midrange torque your looking for is as easy as a Flashpro or AEM system depending on the year of the car. If you are serious about learning your limits as a driver just remember "cheap and good" are at opposite ends of the spectrum. If you need more advice should you reconsider the S2000, there is a whole forum on S2KI devoted to tracking the S2000. They make a very neutral platform, have a engine/suspension that responds well to minor or major modifications and retains the reliability of a Honda.

 

[B2FiNiTY]

I still like the s2000 over all your other choices. Price, platform, cost of maintenance and aftermarket parts, and community.

 

[RYU]

i know you're set on a MR but i'd have a serious look at a E36 M3. Gutted, caged, with stiffer bushings = ANIMAL

 

[bngl3rt]

But for the money, the S2000 is going to be the bee's knees and here is why...if you look hard enough, you can find one for $6-7000 with some mileage on it, and with good compression numbers, who cares about the miles? It's 50/50 weight distribution makes it perfect for the track, no matter the fact that the engine is in the front. They're super easy to work on, and in my opinion, the steering and shifter are so sharp that they make the NSX feel lazy in comparison. Honestly, I owned one for over 6yrs before I got my NSX, and I was pretty disappointed in that department by the NSX. They're nimble, they don't cost an arm and a leg to modify or maintain, and with a good suspension and tires, you cannot go wrong. It might not have abundant power, but once on the track, that is where it is best suited, and with the momentum you can carry through corners in it, you don't need monster power figures to get the job done.

+1 on the S2000, the midrange torque your looking for is as easy as a Flashpro or AEM system depending on the year of the car. If you are serious about learning your limits as a driver just remember "cheap and good" are at opposite ends of the spectrum. If you need more advice should you reconsider the S2000, there is a whole forum on S2KI devoted to tracking the S2000. They make a very neutral platform, have a engine/suspension that responds well to minor or major modifications and retains the reliability of a Honda.

I still like the s2000 over all your other choices. Price, platform, cost of maintenance and aftermarket parts, and community.

Believe me, I have heard that from a ton of people, and looked at some S2000s pretty seriously (even went out to see a USTCC-GT-one: http://instagram.com/p/qYRTboJUGO http://instagram.com/p/qYSYM5JUHi). But then I finally got to drive one and it just didn't feel special or exciting. Maybe I'm asking too much, and the magic of something like the NSX is that it feels special and exciting at low speed on the street, whereas an S2000 comes alive only when you're flogging it at the track?

i know you're set on a MR but i'd have a serious look at a E36 M3. Gutted, caged, with stiffer bushings = ANIMAL

Good point. A beat up one can be had for $5000, too.

 

[Ritesh]

Spec Miata. Once you are within 2 secs of the fast guys then Turbo it. Flyingmiata.net has great support.

This is cheapest and best way to get serious about tracking.

 

[docjohn]

with your implied budget you really have few choices other than the miata or older higher mileage s2k.

 

[bngl3rt]

with your implied budget you really have few choices other than the miata or older higher mileage s2k.

I can spend more but I have to be convinced that it's worth it. I've acknowledged that owning an NSX may have distorted my perception of automotive value. I can spend $15k or more for a cleaner, newer S2000, for example - but the driving experience has to inspire me to feel good about that decision.

 

[docjohn]

I owned an ap1 for some years alongside the bee and honestly for daily driving or toodling around town the ap1 was more fun than the nsx because it was nimble and very stiff for a convertible.Much better autox car.I still preferred the nsx for road course hpde.There are some very quick track prepped s2k's plus you can shoehorn much more rubber in front than the nsx.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Don't buy a headache. Get this and drop in a rollbar and be done. 12K miles, 2013, $15K.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...[SCION[SCIFRS[]][]]&listingId=381667728&Log=0

 

[pjr300]

I have been on the verge of getting an S2000 as well. plan to DD it a few months next summer, but primarily autocross it. Considered a Z3 M but sanity took over...

 

[NSXonwheels]

Going against the grain here, but if you want to have a blast at the track for cheap consider a C5 z06 or even just a regular C5. Yes, it's a GM, and the interior is made by fisher-price, but they're stupid fun at the track, you'll be smiling from ear to ear and it gives you a completely different experience than the NSX so you'll never get sick of either one.

Otherwise, I think the S2000 as mentioned by many above is a fine choice for a track car.

 

[Osiris_x11]

As mentioned above, a C5 'Vette would offer a great NSX-like HPDE experience. Smorgasbord of mods available and cost-to-run is manageable.

There's also high-mileage 996.1/996.2 911s that can be had in the mid teens. Some coilovers, weight-reduction, and with other bits you're good to go.

Otherwise, an Elise would be a fine choice. More-or-less comes track-ready, leveled-off residuals/depreciation, and up the power down-the-road with a SC.

 

[bngl3rt]

Thanks all for your insights. Lots of good options to consider.

Dave that FR-S is a fluke, must be something wrong with it, I've not seen them selling below $19k.

 

[pjr300]

996 would scare me.... the IMS issue would counter any potential track fun...

 

[TURBO2GO]

Thanks all for your insights. Lots of good options to consider.

Dave that FR-S is a fluke, must be something wrong with it, I've not seen them selling below $19k.

There are quite a few below 19, if you do a national search. Not a fluke. That is a legit car for sale. I know everyone here likes the S2K but it is a convertible and that's sometimes a problem. Also, they are older... nothing is a 2013 car. Nothing is as low mileage and if it is, it is way more $$. That FRS is essentially a new car. Needs nothing.

 

[bngl3rt]

996 would scare me.... the IMS issue would counter any potential track fun...

Same reason I'm scared of the Boxster.

 

[Osiris_x11]

The RMS/IMS dealio on the 986/996 (and subsequent gens of Boxster and 911 platforms, respectively) is very real, very random, and very rare.

All I can say is that a well driven example (routinely and regularly, and rigorously) will be ok. The thing about Porsche models is their engineering and design prowess demands usage (preserve lubrication through flow, maintain seals via vacuums, keep electricals/coils intact, etc).

And with that said, it (RMS/IMS) happens more than it should without reason and that's why it's polarized those from afar and plagued those upclose. Truly a situation of YMMV...

A $7.5k Boxster and a $15k 911 will likely have ~125k+ miles, unsure if RMS/IMS is an issue at that point. I too was formerly scared off by reliability/dependability by late-model Porsches. They definitely aren't Hondas/Toyotas, but a lot of the maint'/service and repair/replacement of stuff is DIY with rather affordable parts/components and great support online and in the community. Yes- there are quite a bit of niggles and quirks, almost all can be addressed (DIY). Comes to down to how much one can put up with!

 

[stonesonsilver]

s2000 all the way. The engine/chassis has proven reliable for track use since its debut 14 years ago. Some basic safety, suspension, wheel/tire setup, and brake (pads) mods is all you really need to do for a track day machine.
Also, F series motors are plentiful and reasonable cost wise to rebuild if need be.

There are lots of stock powered s2k's running out on track turning great laps!

 

[Aaron94T]

I was looking for a cheap track toy a couple years back and settled on two cars.

RX-8 - It's handling is often compared to the Cayman at a fraction of the cost. I would argue it is best handling car for the money, which is why I bought one. The lack of torque is the only downside. However, if you are ok with NA1 levels of torque you might not be bothered.

350Z - These are even cheaper now than when I was looking at them so they are a bargain. Nissan also made a ton of them so finding a good example is easy. Solid power and torque from the engine and lots of aftermarket support.


With that said, the Miata is the logical choice but I wanted to be more excited about the car itself, and I have a hard time with the Miata.

 

[BATMANs]

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/4659331145.html

 

[sahtt]

If you find a decent MK III MR2 turbo for $5k, even $8k, please let me know so I can flip it for a large profit.

The s2000 is the closest to track prepped from the factory and it can take track duty. It's relatively expensive for good reason. When (not if) you do lose a major component, i.e. transmission or engine, it is not going to be miata prices you'll face. I have a more aggressive rear differential off of a mazda 3 turbo in my AP2. It's a little ridiculous on the highway above 80mph (gearing casuses you to be in 3rd when you cross 60mph) but it's a major improvement around town as far as usable power is concerned (assuming you don't mind shifting often). Only the shifter and sheering feel 'special' to me when driving the car around slowly. It is not designed for that. You have to push it above 80% of what the car can take (not easy to do on the street) to see how well it all comes together.

Sounds like you need to keep trying different cars since your main issue is finding one you 'like' versus one that meets a series of quantifiable parameters we can help you with. The aformentioned c5 corvette isn't a bad idea; I don't like the forward visibility, shifter feel, or steering feel on that car so it wouldn't work for me. One reason I like the NSX and s2000 so much is how well I can see the road when driving hard.

 

[bngl3rt]

With that said, the Miata is the logical choice but I wanted to be more excited about the car itself, and I have a hard time with the Miata.

I think that's what I'm struggling with also. This track thing is very fun but very expensive, and I think I'm only willing to commit to doing it in a car that excites me. I want a car that inspires me to be a fast, good, smooth drive - or, as I've told my friends, "I don't care about being fast in a car I don't care about." The NSX inspires me to be good and fast and smooth but is too nice/rare/classic (in my opinion) to risk wrecking at the track in pursuit of speed.

Sounds like you need to keep trying different cars since your main issue is finding one you 'like' versus one that meets a series of quantifiable parameters we can help you with.

You are entirely correct. It is good to hear that the S2000 really "comes together" when pushed hard though. I wonder if there is a race shop nearby that will let me rent one out for a single track day to see how I like it.