The 2017 Acura NSX reality check
- Thread starter Night Prowler
- Start date
Steve
I think the new NSX is positioned the same as the original.
The first NSX had superior handling, superior cockpit ergos, adequate power, competitive performance numbers, quality construction, reliability, plus many innovations like aluminum body and chassis, titanium rods, traction control and so on.
The new NSX appears to be positioned similarly.
Innovative handling with electric AWD, adequate power, quality construction with many new techniques like ablation castings, hand built engine, 9 speed gearbox, several performance modes, focus on cockpit ergos, competitive performance numbers etc.
As you said, it's a Honda and you know what to expect.
It has its niche, should sell its limited production volume, and as always, car guys will have a questioning look.
The main difference between the first and second NSX's seems to be in the production volume.
Honda USA over-ordered the first NSX and after the initial flurry, unsold NSX's sat in dealerships, resulting in discounting and a general depreciation of the brand despite how good the car was.
Honda seems to have learned from that and this time they're trying to manage production to avoid the stigma of unsold cars.
As Ted Klaus said "demand less one car", a trait Ferrari mastered a long time ago.
Lots of comments being made about what the new NSX isn't, which is expected and accepted, despite no one really knowing everything about the car.
I expect in time we'll have more understanding of what the new NSX is and that will be refreshing. :smile:
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fastaussie
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well, there's only one place to squarely put the blame for that one...
Of course it's easy to blame Honda for the dearth of information but that's not my point.
It's about posts being made without first hand knowledge of the car itself.
Perhaps someone test drove the NSX and found the steering wasn't to their liking.
That should be stated as an test driver's opinion rather than a fact that the steering feel is a fail.
fastaussie
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it's been stated many times by numerous test drivers/reviewers of the car, that the new NSX's steering is very or completely lacking in feel. that's firsthand knowledge given by people qualified and employed to give firsthand knowledge...
FA, you're exaggerating one or two reviews of "numb steering" to the number of numerous. The largest critique was the choice of factory tires which subdued the handling drastically. Most journals have not even been able to drive the new NSX yet...
I find it appalling the level of "sheepness" that critics sheppard these days especially via online prowess. If I like or think I may like something, I'm going try it regardless of the nay-sayers and let my own opinion speak beyond journalists that can't even afford one (me being in the same boat nonetheless) and most of them wanted a $50K NSX brand new out the box from Honda. The first NSX was not exactly cheap for an almost ~300 hp car and most people who have never driven one extensively would consider $89K to be extreme for such a car.
I've let some domestic big-displacement motorheads friends test my NSX around town. They deemed it too refined and soft upon initial impressions like an Accord because they were respectful not to get on it too hard on the streets with another owner's car interestingly enough. That is the duality of the NSX and appears to continue in the 2.0.
I find it appalling the level of "sheepness" that critics sheppard these days especially via online prowess. If I like or think I may like something, I'm going try it regardless of the nay-sayers and let my own opinion speak beyond journalists that can't even afford one (me being in the same boat nonetheless) and most of them wanted a $50K NSX brand new out the box from Honda. The first NSX was not exactly cheap for an almost ~300 hp car and most people who have never driven one extensively would consider $89K to be extreme for such a car.
I've let some domestic big-displacement motorheads friends test my NSX around town. They deemed it too refined and soft upon initial impressions like an Accord because they were respectful not to get on it too hard on the streets with another owner's car interestingly enough. That is the duality of the NSX and appears to continue in the 2.0.
Your comment in a previous post was "shit to no steering feel" which sounded to me like a firsthand observation.
Did you really mean "some road testers reported shit to no steering feel"?
fastaussie
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one or two reviews, really? have you only seen one or two reviews? i have seen at least 20 where the car has been driven solely by the journalist, everyone on this site has.
ahh denial. ignorance most certainly is bliss...
what i said was, "very or completely lacking in feel." that's been the general consensus that i've ascertained from reading and watching the many reviews. i know you both have already seen and heard the same. everyone has, it's been talked to death.
i personally have not driven the new NSX. i do know people that have, personal friends of mine. those sentiments are echoed in everything i have heard so far (in regards to the steering) in the automotive media...
but once again, some on this forum are criticising journalists because they don't like the reviews the car is getting. that's ridiculous, don't blame the messenger...
FA, not trying to pick a fight as I enjoy your comments, however you need to read post #43 again to see what you said.
I have no objection to any of the reviews of the NSX good or bad. It's what we have the media for and why manufacturers give them cars to test drive and comment on.
We expect bricks and bouquets in these reviews for all Marques tested.
If we have firsthand experience great, we should express it so.
If it's someone else's opinion I think we should state it as such.
fastaussie
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i thought you were referring to my most recent post regarding the steering feel, #55 . my sincerest apologies. and no worries, i know you're not picking a fight, nor am i.
i agree with you 100%.
we have journalists who are professional drivers and editors (writers) whose job it is to test and review these cars for the rest of the population who won't get the chance until most buy one, if ever in the case of Supercars. the rest of the population, or non-automotive media as i will call them for purposes here, also don't have the opportunity to drive every car made, or at least every other car in a particular segment, some times back-to-back, stepping out of one and into the others. therefor they have no basis for comparison. the NSX steering may not be as bad as it is portrayed if you only drive the NSX. it's only when you compare it to some other cars in the class that the sub-par nature becomes readily apparent. most people here have never driven a Porsche, or a Ferrari, or a McLaren, or whatever. yet they seem completely convinced that the NSX is better in every way.
to hear people saying that this journalist or that journalist doesn't know what they are talking about is absurd. they do know what they are talking about, it is their job to know that they are talking about. like i said previously, i liken this scenario to a bunch of fat middleweight men watching the Superbowl eating chicken wings talking about how a particular quarterback sucks and how they'd be so much better.
obviously, any opinion given is a personal one. that goes without saying. when the same opinion has been reached by different contributor's, then you can start to see a pattern forming. in the case of the new NSX's steering, no one has said it is amazing, and most have said it is pretty numb and lacking in feel. so there you go, like a case study or democracy, the majority rules. common sense, everybody can't be biased and have no receptor for Supercar steering feel, especially when you drive all the Supercars made. no conspiracy theories here, the steering is just not said to be very communicative. and Acura/Honda even explained why it isn't. so no, it isn't the tires, it's a negative bi-product of the torque vectoring.
covering one's ears while the verdict on steering is spoken won't make the NSX magically have razor sharp steering. that's just not how it works...
i agree with you 100%.
we have journalists who are professional drivers and editors (writers) whose job it is to test and review these cars for the rest of the population who won't get the chance until most buy one, if ever in the case of Supercars. the rest of the population, or non-automotive media as i will call them for purposes here, also don't have the opportunity to drive every car made, or at least every other car in a particular segment, some times back-to-back, stepping out of one and into the others. therefor they have no basis for comparison. the NSX steering may not be as bad as it is portrayed if you only drive the NSX. it's only when you compare it to some other cars in the class that the sub-par nature becomes readily apparent. most people here have never driven a Porsche, or a Ferrari, or a McLaren, or whatever. yet they seem completely convinced that the NSX is better in every way.
to hear people saying that this journalist or that journalist doesn't know what they are talking about is absurd. they do know what they are talking about, it is their job to know that they are talking about. like i said previously, i liken this scenario to a bunch of fat middleweight men watching the Superbowl eating chicken wings talking about how a particular quarterback sucks and how they'd be so much better.
obviously, any opinion given is a personal one. that goes without saying. when the same opinion has been reached by different contributor's, then you can start to see a pattern forming. in the case of the new NSX's steering, no one has said it is amazing, and most have said it is pretty numb and lacking in feel. so there you go, like a case study or democracy, the majority rules. common sense, everybody can't be biased and have no receptor for Supercar steering feel, especially when you drive all the Supercars made. no conspiracy theories here, the steering is just not said to be very communicative. and Acura/Honda even explained why it isn't. so no, it isn't the tires, it's a negative bi-product of the torque vectoring.
covering one's ears while the verdict on steering is spoken won't make the NSX magically have razor sharp steering. that's just not how it works...
fastaussie you are and have been very pessimistic this whole time. It seems you are being very defensive about anyone actually liking the new car for what it is and not for what you wanted it to be. You seem to be clinging on these one or two things you dislike about the car and claiming the car is a failure because of it.
Some reviewers complained about or noted the lack of feel on the "all season" tires for the preproduction tests they did back in late 2015. (I got a feeling the reviewers who did complain have the same mindset as fastassie, who wanted/expected a more analogous car instead of a car that is a technical tour de force). The majority of the reviewers who did the early 2016 test drives did not complain about lack of feel. Then we have this clown who didn't even drive the car, but then complains about the car because it's called an NSX which to me is just a pointless review. The trend seems to indicate that they may have improved the steering feel (since nobody seemed to complain about it the 2nd go around) but we should wait until the comparison tests to see if they really did improve steering feel on the car or not. Like you said maybe it becomes even more apparent when compared to other back to back.
But lets all agree, the NSX with the Hybrid SH-AWD does not and will never have the same steering feel as lets say a more simple car, like our original NSX. That I think we can all agree that is a fact and not an opinion. Does it mean the car is horrible because of that? No! That is where it becomes a matter of opinion. Some may hate it that way and some may like it that way. It's just personal preference at that point.
Some reviewers complained about or noted the lack of feel on the "all season" tires for the preproduction tests they did back in late 2015. (I got a feeling the reviewers who did complain have the same mindset as fastassie, who wanted/expected a more analogous car instead of a car that is a technical tour de force). The majority of the reviewers who did the early 2016 test drives did not complain about lack of feel. Then we have this clown who didn't even drive the car, but then complains about the car because it's called an NSX which to me is just a pointless review. The trend seems to indicate that they may have improved the steering feel (since nobody seemed to complain about it the 2nd go around) but we should wait until the comparison tests to see if they really did improve steering feel on the car or not. Like you said maybe it becomes even more apparent when compared to other back to back.
But lets all agree, the NSX with the Hybrid SH-AWD does not and will never have the same steering feel as lets say a more simple car, like our original NSX. That I think we can all agree that is a fact and not an opinion. Does it mean the car is horrible because of that? No! That is where it becomes a matter of opinion. Some may hate it that way and some may like it that way. It's just personal preference at that point.
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fastaussie
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everything is personal preference, that's obvious in every facet of life.
once again, i don't care one way or another about this new NSX. i'm not in love with it, nor do i hate it. what i am, is not a blind and deaf fanboy, and an unashamed Honda biased cheerleader...
once again, i don't care one way or another about this new NSX. i'm not in love with it, nor do i hate it. what i am, is not a blind and deaf fanboy, and an unashamed Honda biased cheerleader...
You are right about most not having experience driving a range of marques, and I'm one of them.
I know you've driven most if not all of them.
What would be helpful would be a journalist who would explain the reason for lack of NSX steering feel.
Is it a result of the front wheel drive system?
Is it poor engineering?
Honda benchmarked all the competitions and surely would know the steering feel in the Ferrari/Porsche etc.
And surely they would know the NSX lacked the same feel.
So why is that?
Did Honda give up steering feel for improved cornering performance from the torque vectoring drive?
A test driver/rider notes the steering feel is vague, or brakes seem off and writes a criticism.
A journalist notes the steering feeling is vague or brakes seem off, knows Honda is not incompetent, wonders why on a halo car, finds out the reasons, and reports on the findings.
Good or bad the journalists comments have some gravitas.
Perhaps more journalists and less test drivers/riders are needed.
Then why do you keep exaggerating the faults of the new NSX like you are fanboy? You sound more ignorant than I believe you to be considering your profession and hobbies.
We get it. You're not wowed by the new NSX for years now it seems. Don't disregard the fact that the handling critiques were based on tire choice. I remember precisely only one review of the guy saying it felt numb because of the steering mechanism. The rest complained about factory tires or lack of track mode access. AND I've read pretty much all of the reviews for the new NSX.
Many people are wowed by the 2.0 even if there is limited data to work with. They generally are not Honda fanboys but instead independent buyers of any brands apparently for the ones that do and have spoken up here. Most are and have been in the market for modern supercars. The allotment is practically sold out for 2 years. You're not going to change people's minds and the early critiques on the downfalls of the new NSX should make it a better car ultimately and hopefully.
It's just usually the Honda fanboys that are upset with the new NSX actually
You just happen to be a minority of both Italian and Honda fanboy haha.
I read it differently - reviewers say it has very direct, responsive steering, but lacks road feel. The consensus seems to be that on track tires, it is very predictable in following the line and turning in, so much so that after becoming familiar, it can be pointed with absolute confidence. One reviewer really actually liked it as it was.
And from my experience, that's not an uncommon trait of modern Honda cars. The 9th gen Euro Civic Type-R tends to elicit the same reviewer response.
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fastaussie
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i didn't engineer the car, nor am i a car engineer. i do have a lot of experience with Supercars, yes. i have driven all of them, yes. but i'm not talking about me.
my guess, it that the torque vectoring necessitates the way the steering is now. the more eccentric and moving parts you put through the front wheels, the less direct the connection to the road will be. it's fairly simple. think of the way people like to commend the NSX 1.0 manual steering over the electronically assisted rack. now times that by ten.
that's all find and dandy. the problem is "lack of feel"...
once again, you're giving me far too much credit. i am not the automotive equivalent of Doctor Evil, i really could care less.
if i liked the car for my own personal reasons, i would. but if the NSX topped out at 37 miles per hour and ran on apple juice and minced puppies, you would still think it was the finest road car ever...
p.s. your memory is either extremely convenient, or very bad at recollecting. either way, it doesn't matter. you'll buy the NSX and love it, and that is fantastic for you. :smile: but your car will still have numb and vague steering, and i still won't care...
Honestly, I'm growing tired of your accusations of "fanboys" on this site. The biggest perpetuator of the blind ignorance you profess to observe, is you, with your total dismissal of the NSX's worth because of your values, and not waiting to judge the production car's true worth from the manufacturer's perspective, which surprise, may not be the same values you are requiring from a vehicle. You don't like the car because it doesn't meet your expectations of what an NSX should have, which is fine, but I had a '06 Legend, and the SH-AWD systems on that car were "epic" for me [with posts espousing my exploits on "Temple of Vtec" and "Acurazine"] . Since the NSX MkII was first mooted, I was hoping Honda/Acura would include such a system in the new car, because I could only imagine how good it could be in a proper sporting chassis. Notice I've written could be, because until the comparison tests are in, nobody outside of Honda/Acura really knows. But that is what I've always written, let's reserve final judgement until the production car meet's it peers. And it's peers are not Porsche GT3s.
As for the tardiness of the arrival of production cars, it is unfortunate, and I hope it doesn't blow out into the RLX Hybrid scenario of non-existent cars for 12 months [shudder]. But that would still be preferable than Honda/Acura releasing a car with glitches to be resolved?
Or I could just say, mate you're just being a typical Aussie dickhead.
Been thinking about one of your previous comments about the new NSX being more a GT car.
I think you're on to something here.
It's heavy for a track car which is hard on brakes and suspension and the application of front wheel drive helping a heavy car around corners has probably compromised steering feel.
About 65 k of the 105 k on my 91 NSX has been highway driving and I've found it to be superb in that role.
I'm thinking most of the miles put on the new NSX won't be on the track but rather in real world driving just like the majority of Ferraris/Porsches/Audis/Lambos.
Looking forward to reading comments from new NSX owners as they log in daily type driving miles.
fastaussie
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Honestly, I'm growing tired of your accusations of "fanboys" on this site. The biggest perpetuator of the blind ignorance you profess to observe, is you, with your total dismissal of the NSX's worth because of your values, and not waiting to judge the production car's true worth from the manufacturer's perspective, which surprise, may not be the same values you are requiring from a vehicle. You don't like the car because it doesn't meet your expectations of what an NSX should have, which is fine, but I had a '06 Legend, and the SH-AWD systems on that car were "epic" for me [with posts espousing my exploits on "Temple of Vtec" and "Acurazine"] . Since the NSX MkII was first mooted, I was hoping Honda/Acura would include such a system in the new car, because I could only imagine how good it could be in a proper sporting chassis. Notice I've written could be, because until the comparison tests are in, nobody outside of Honda/Acura really knows. But that is what I've always written, let's reserve final judgement until the production car meet's it peers. And it's peers are not Porsche GT3s.
As for the tardiness of the arrival of production cars, it is unfortunate, and I hope it doesn't blow out into the RLX Hybrid scenario of non-existent cars for 12 months [shudder]. But that would still be preferable than Honda/Acura releasing a car with glitches to be resolved?
Or I could just say, mate you're just being a typical Aussie dickhead.
once again, very briefly i will reiterate. i couldn't be fussed about the new NSX one way or another, nor am i trying to totally dismiss it. i have said many times, it's a very nice car. it'll be fast, it'll probably be reliable, it should be rather rare and exclusive.
you can say whatever you want, but the true fanboys show yourselves by your utter refusal to believe that the NSX can be anything other than perfect perfection. as evidenced by the fact that you all totally lose your shit whenever a journo says something less than stellar about the car...
p.s. the Yank members of this forum won't get the "typical Aussie dickhead" comment.
once again i agree with you my friend from the great white north. Honda has always tuned their stuff more for the street than track, they do the same with their motorcycles. 95% of new NSX's will likely never see the race track, just as will the majority of GT3's, 488's and Huracans. so it makes sense for the car to be more tuned for the road. however it might also be super fast at the track? time will tell...
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I have no idea about the steering feel (didnt get to drive the car yet, i have just seen it in person) but i am disappointed by the total weight and the mishappen front end. I like the interior unlike many, i think it would be nice to cruise long miles in there. Still I am much more impressed by the whole engineering design of the latest Mazda Miata (*), they managed to make the car even lighter than previous generations, with more modern equipment and regulations that tend to make other cars heavier over time.
(*) especially that mind blowing hard top version
(*) especially that mind blowing hard top version
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I fail to see why people are taking reviews so personally. It's only a car, people! It's obviously still being refined. The most important people in that refinement process will be first owners, who will likely provide real world feedback and help to refine the car further. I, personally, am excited about the launch and would like to see what the final production model can do, and how it changes over the years. I take my Cleveland Sports Fan mentality into this launch: expect nothing, but if it's a hit, then celebrate like hell.
just remember folks, it's only the Internet, calm down and enjoy, then hope to get a chance to drive the real thing.
just remember folks, it's only the Internet, calm down and enjoy, then hope to get a chance to drive the real thing.
Let's live in hope Honda release an export version of the mid-engine S660, then you might have the car you are really looking for. Personally it looks more interesting than a Miata/MX5.
fastaussie
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yup. i'm honestly surprised there haven't been any assassination attempts on the journo boys writing the unfavourable reviews...
FA - I have superb memory.
-I have yet to personally drive the new NSX in real world conditions so I can only admire from afar and speculate with my own wits. If it ends up being poorly executed or unreliable then life goes on. I however will not rely on my peers' or reviewers' opinions to cloud my judgement.
-I am not an old school Honda fan or linear thinker in the sense that I expect a "V8 MR" from Honda to compete with the likes of Ferrari. We all would like that, but it probably will never happen at this point in history. Hell, if the new NSX was twin turbo V8, half of the NSX fans would whine about it not being true to the original NA V6 of the NSX
-The particular reviewer in this thread is unprofessional in this video which is what most people are responding to, but he brought up the interesting point about the brake temp warnings.
-The GT label is interesting. Labels in general are very subjective however. So is the hybrid 918 a GT hypercar I suppose as it's only 100 lbs lighter than the much more affordable hybrid NSX...
-I have yet to personally drive the new NSX in real world conditions so I can only admire from afar and speculate with my own wits. If it ends up being poorly executed or unreliable then life goes on. I however will not rely on my peers' or reviewers' opinions to cloud my judgement.
-I am not an old school Honda fan or linear thinker in the sense that I expect a "V8 MR" from Honda to compete with the likes of Ferrari. We all would like that, but it probably will never happen at this point in history. Hell, if the new NSX was twin turbo V8, half of the NSX fans would whine about it not being true to the original NA V6 of the NSX
-The particular reviewer in this thread is unprofessional in this video which is what most people are responding to, but he brought up the interesting point about the brake temp warnings.
-The GT label is interesting. Labels in general are very subjective however. So is the hybrid 918 a GT hypercar I suppose as it's only 100 lbs lighter than the much more affordable hybrid NSX...
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IMHO, the whole "lack of feel" / "lack of feedback through the wheel" needs to be interpreted with a bit of context. In a typical RWD car driven near the limit, your need to know when you are running out of grip in the front to stay on the edge and get around the corner fast. It is mechanically impossible to replicate this 100% in a FWD or AWD drive car. Layer on top of that's electrics steering and complex aged linkages designed to eliminate torque steer, and you are pretty far away from a "simple" RWD sports car set up. So very very different engineering solutions. Different, but not necessarily better/worse.
I you are in love with the design, feel, dynamics of traditional RWD sports cars, great. But that;s not the only way to get around the corner as fast as possible, with consistency and control.
The NSX 2.0 takes a different approach. Better/worse in terms of laptimes is an objective measure that we will all soon know. Better/worse in terms of preference is subjective. Miatas have the best balance, Porsches have the best braking, maybe some other brand (Porashe again?) has the best steering feel. Interesting trivia, but cars are not mix-and-match lego sets, you gotta pick the best holistic package.
Add to that, many people don't have one "ultimate" car that will satisfy them forever. Many prefer to sample a few favovites (at a time or over time). For them, not being "the best" in any given category is not the point. The point is fun. I expect the NSX 2.0 to be fun. So I ordered one. Simple as that.
If I could only own one car, it would NOT be a sports car. It would be an M5 (even though the steering feedback is crap).
I you are in love with the design, feel, dynamics of traditional RWD sports cars, great. But that;s not the only way to get around the corner as fast as possible, with consistency and control.
The NSX 2.0 takes a different approach. Better/worse in terms of laptimes is an objective measure that we will all soon know. Better/worse in terms of preference is subjective. Miatas have the best balance, Porsches have the best braking, maybe some other brand (Porashe again?) has the best steering feel. Interesting trivia, but cars are not mix-and-match lego sets, you gotta pick the best holistic package.
Add to that, many people don't have one "ultimate" car that will satisfy them forever. Many prefer to sample a few favovites (at a time or over time). For them, not being "the best" in any given category is not the point. The point is fun. I expect the NSX 2.0 to be fun. So I ordered one. Simple as that.
If I could only own one car, it would NOT be a sports car. It would be an M5 (even though the steering feedback is crap).
