Test pipes increase engine risk?

RON98 said:
Isnt that guy running a supercharger?

Since supercharger is not effect by exhaust flow, taking off the cats should not effect the air intake of the engine.

If it where turbos, the extra flow could over power the ability of the waste gate to dump exhaust to the point where the WG could be fully open and the turbos still making boost.

The reason from my understanding your car picks up more HP is cause cat causes restrictions on the exhaust flow. On the exhaust stroke and a few degrees into the intake stroke, the extra presure in the exhaust manifolds allows more already burnt ( some what inert ) gasses to remain/enter back into the chamber. Since already burnt gasses (co2 and nitrogen mainly) does not burn, your not getting as much fresh air as you would if you had less restrictions in your exhaust, more air/more fuel = more power.

Also the engine does not have to work as hard to push out the exhaust on the exhaust stroke which probably frees up something.

A/F in my mind would be changed a little ( put enphasis on little ) bit depending on if your car was tuned with the cat or with out. However in open loop, the ECU reads off the O2 sensor and will compensate for the little extra bit of air coming in so your back to square 1.

Also, with a SC FI system, your car will be running on the rich side anyways! So leaning it out a little (little) bit is no biggy and will product more power in close loop when the ECU is working blind off the preprogrammed fuel map.

Used test pipes for a long time now, have had no problems. It acturally does not smell like rotten eggs.... more of a gas smell... but definitly no rotten eggs. Cats are there to burn up extra gas left over from the combusion process. The stinky smell is from sulpher in the gas you buy. So if it gets stinky, change a different brand of gas. :tongue:

"With CATS, the pressure in the system is ever so slightly higher in fact it is so slight it is really negligible."

As for the post above... I dont think so. Have you seen a cat.... at least 20% of the passage is blocked by the honey comb material..... so thats at least 20% less back pressure due to the cats ( if i over estimated then something like 10% flow is still pretty big )

Took off the cats on my turbo supra..... it was night and day. Although the SC does not work off exhaust gasses, the removal of the turbo from my supra which lead to much quicker spool times and better HP can be used as a illistration of less back preasure.

btw screw high flow cats. dont do something in life half ass. Your neither saving the envorinment or full HP protential.

Worry about the environment? Ride a bike. If you drive a car, cook with wood, matural gas, electric stove and anything else short of solar power, your killing something. I want dead babie bunnies and cute little beavers to shoot out my exhaust at all times during my driving experience. Less crying about the enviornment and more killing baby animals you hipocrites :biggrin: I cant spel, bite me.:rolleyes:

WOW!! What a post!
I just carefully opened the box my test pipes came in, afraid all those dead animals would fall out.:eek:
I am glad to say I only found the remains of what appeared to be a fly. Obversely part of the test run on the pipes to assure their lethality.:wink:
I now feel like I will become the "Dark Lord of Planetary Extinction" if I dare use these things. I have quietly resealed the box; with the remains of the fly still inside it, and hid it up on a shelf in the darkest corner of the garage, stored next to my "Detroit Mussel Forever" jacket.:roll eyes:
I will go on a retreat this weekend to ponder this moral dilemma.:confused:
Thanks Ron98 for opening my eyes to the "HORROR of TEST PIPES"; I feel this may become a Steven King movie.:biggrin:

Bob
 
RON98 said beavers... he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he

I just bought DonyMo's test pipes from him, so once I get 'em and get 'em on the car, I'll post up what my impressions are from a SOTP, smell and loudness perspective....
 
RON98 said:
Isnt that guy running a supercharger?

Since supercharger is not effect by exhaust flow, taking off the cats should not effect the air intake of the engine.

RON98,

The supercharged engine is effected; maybe more effected by exhaust gas pressure given the incresed volume of exhaust it produces. An engine is a form of air pump; the more efficiently air moves through it the more power it produces. Any restriction, intake or exhaust side cause reduction in efficiency. A supercharged engine is "stuffing" in air/fuel mixture under pressure. If the positive 6 lbs of boost meets a positve 2 lbs of back pressure in the cylinder the ability to fill the cylinder with a full clean air/fuel mixture is compromised. The lower the back pressure on an SCed engine is the more HP it will produce generally speaking.

Bob
 
I am fairly sure at this point that on a supercharged motor the cats are making a HP restriction that is fairly significant. I just don't think they were designed to handle that level of flow. I am also fairly confident that bypassing cats will not affect the A/F ratio enough to need tuning changes.

This does bring up a question on an OBDII car, of how do you go about doing such a thing without getting CELs. And if you did that, how do you pass inspection in a state like mine that does the "sniffer" test. I suppose you can use your "test pipe" to... ummmm.... "test" in between your yearly inspections and replace cats when need be.

Or get a couple of nice high flow cats, and be done with it once and for all. And I as one would feel a bit better knowing I am polluting less. Just personal, please don't stray off subject here and go into an environmental thread.

How do we get test pipes into an OBDII car? No one has been able to do this yet as far as I know.
 
My 96 ecu does not throw codes with test pipes.
 
put your cats back on or pay a little extra :biggrin:

as far as high flow... you know that they dont guarantee that you car will pass.... most of the high flows are just there so you ca say i have a "cats"

docjohns is still obd 1 so no problems as they didnt use 2 o2 sensors for compairson.

im not sure why you cant tie in a resistor into the second o2 sensor and restrict some current so it reads low and makes the computer think the cat is there and working.

"lease don't stray off subject here and go into an environmental thread"

we are here to have fun, stray away. fun killer. a week ago you didnt know what cel stands for. dont start barking commands now :D
 
Sorry guys but 96 is an ob-2 ecu,and I do have 2 o2 sensors,and in fact I now have a new 3.2 liter na2 motor that works just fine with my old 96 ecu.
 
docjohn said:
Sorry guys but 96 is an ob-2 ecu,and I do have 2 o2 sensors,and in fact I now have a new 3.2 liter na2 motor that works just fine with my old 96 ecu.

My 95 did not throw codes either.

The smell was mainly fuel -- which I could live with, but the volume was really loud --which the wife could not.
 
RON98 said:
put your cats back on or pay a little extra :biggrin:

im not sure why you cant tie in a resistor into the second o2 sensor and restrict some current so it reads low and makes the computer think the cat is there and working.

I don't know either, but apparently its a problem. The thing is smarter than you think! AJKS has tried that already (see the link above I attached). He has tried 4 sets of sim's to try and get it to work... no luck he said. "Post '02 cannot be fooled" he said... I am not sure what is unique to the 02+ engine that would cause this.

RON98 said:
"lease don't stray off subject here and go into an environmental thread"

we are here to have fun, stray away. fun killer. a week ago you didnt know what cel stands for. dont start barking commands now :D

hehe well I see potential here for a thread gettin' out of control. I had to ask for restraint... :biggrin:
 
docjohn said:
Sorry guys but 96 is an ob-2 ecu,and I do have 2 o2 sensors,and in fact I now have a new 3.2 liter na2 motor that works just fine with my old 96 ecu.

You have done nothing else special?
 
TURBO2GO said:
You have done nothing else special?
Nope just doled out the mula for the swap.:wink:
 
So you got no cels... AJKS gets cels... both cars are OBDII. One is a '96, the other is an 02+... someone that knows, what else is different? the ECU?
 
TURBO2GO said:
I am fairly sure at this point that on a supercharged motor the cats are making a HP restriction that is fairly significant. I just don't think they were designed to handle that level of flow. I am also fairly confident that bypassing cats will not affect the A/F ratio enough to need tuning changes.

This does bring up a question on an OBDII car, of how do you go about doing such a thing without getting CELs. And if you did that, how do you pass inspection in a state like mine that does the "sniffer" test. I suppose you can use your "test pipe" to... ummmm.... "test" in between your yearly inspections and replace cats when need be.

Or get a couple of nice high flow cats, and be done with it once and for all. And I as one would feel a bit better knowing I am polluting less. Just personal, please don't stray off subject here and go into an environmental thread.

How do we get test pipes into an OBDII car? No one has been able to do this yet as far as I know.

I don't know if this is a problem with the NSX... But a lot of the S2000 guys are getting CEL problems with high flow cats installed!

So, one would have to assume that high flow cats are not as efficient as the OEM cats.

Therefore, if your state is THAT conscientious then wouldn't there be a question mark over the car passing the "sniffer" test with hi-flow cats installed?

TURBO2GO said:
So you got no cels... AJKS gets cels... both cars are OBDII. One is a '96, the other is an 02+... someone that knows, what else is different? the ECU?

Honda tightened up the parameters on the emissions on the 2000+ NSX’s as that is when they introduced the LEV engine management system.

Therefore I would think there is more chance of a 2000+ NSX having a CEL problem than the previous models even if they are OBII and NA2.
 
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