Test drove a Mini Cooper S yesterday...

[Jimbo]

Very sweet little car.

Handled like a go-kart. Had a gutsy little engine and a very nice 6 speed.

Nice quality, beautiful paint...Interior is just a bit overdone for my taste, but all in all a great little car for $20K.

-Jim

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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
1976 Honda Accord 5 spd, 3 door Blue/Blue
1977 Honda Accord - Custom - Under Construction
1986 Chevy Suburban
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html

 

[Auraraptor]

Honestly, I was wondering, I heard that the little car is "fat" and over weight (due to BMWs love of making panzer tanks out of their cars) Does the weight kill performance? How is it overall? what kind of car is she? (7sec, 6sec 0-60) how was she on turns w/ body roll? all in your opinion of course

 

[Jimbo]

The car weighs 2600 lbs but it feels much heavier and solid. Like a BMW 3-series.

Acceleration was good, but I also had 3 people on board during my brief road test. I beleive the specs claim a high 6 second 0-60 time and I believe it.

It's fun and quick. The handling was the best part. Flat as flat can be on cornering. Gripped like there was no tomorrow. A go-kart is the best analogy.

All in my opinion, of course.

I just might pick one up.

PS: Very nice dealer experience BTW. Sales person was a nice woman who is a Mini enthusiast. Owns a 67.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
1976 Honda Accord 5 spd, 3 door Blue/Blue
1977 Honda Accord - Custom - Under Construction
1986 Chevy Suburban
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by Jimbo:
The car weighs 2600 lbs

2678 for the Cooper S, according to Edmunds.

Originally posted by Jimbo:
I beleive the specs claim a high 6 second 0-60 time

It tests at 7.0 seconds according to Car and Driver (7/02) and MotorWeek.

It's the relationship between weight and power where the Cooper S really suffers, and that's why it's been criticized by enthusiasts. Compare it with, say, an Integra Type R. The ITR has 195 hp vs only 163 for the Mini S. And the Mini is 17 percent shorter, which would lead you to believe it ought to be a lot lighter, but the Mini S is actually heavier than the ITR (2639 pounds). I guess that's why I was lapping the other instructors driving the Mini S when I was driving my ITR at Grattan.

The Mini would be a great performing sports car if they could get the weight down to about 2200 pounds, where it ought to be, based on its size (143.9 inches long). Of course, that's not likely, with BMW in charge.

As it is, it's a fun car, and a pretty decent value. But it's no sports car. It's a lot like the New Beetle and the PT Cruiser (a.k.a. "Neon Wagon") - cute because they evoke models of the past, and good values because of a relatively low purchase price, but not much on performance.

 

[Jimbo]

Ken,

1. I actually weighed the car on a scale (truck scale next to the dealer) and it weighed 2639 pounds. However, Mini and Edmunds agree with 2678. Close enough for me. Perhaps it is heavy for the size of it, but then again, it has a ton of standard features not present in the RSX or the Civic. It also feels more substantial and yet fun.

2. In case you haven't noticed, you can't purchase a new ITR. In my opinion, the Mini is much more comparable to a Civic Si, which has the same horsepower but weighs more (2744). It's also priced more closely with the Civic Si. It is a car, that I would consider. And unlike the Mini, it is made in England. But, I'm not sure that' a good thing.

3. The RSX Type S is closer to the ITR. It has more horsepower than the Mini Cooper S, 200 hp, has a 6-speed like the Mini, but it is heavier than the Mini too (2767). It also has more room. It's also $3K more expensive too. I'm considering the RSX too. But both the RSX and Civic Si are kind of commonplace, IMHO.

There's a lot of people criticizing the Civic Si and RSX too.

4. I don't consider the Mini or the Mini Cooper S to be a sports car. But neither is the ITR or the RSX Type S. Sports cars have two seats in my book. These are sporty cars. I already own several real sports cars, so that really doesn't bother me.

But, I don't consider the Mini Cooper to be in the same class or category as a New Beetle or a PT Cruiser either. They're not sporty cars at all. The Mini might not be a sports car, but it certainly has a racing heritage much richer than any Beetle or PT Cruiser.

I'm just looking for a fun to drive sporty car and I'm just not wowed by either the RSX or the Civic Si. There's something neat about the Mini and it reminds me more of my very first CRX than any of the current Honda models I mentioned.

-Jim

PS: It's hard to compare cars on isolated track experiences. I've been outdriven in my NSX by a seasoned WRX owner, but I don't think anyone would claim that the WRX is a better sports or track car than the NSX.

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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
1976 Honda Accord 5 spd, 3 door Blue/Blue
1977 Honda Accord - Custom - Under Construction
1986 Chevy Suburban
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by Jimbo:
I actually weighed the car on a scale (truck scale next to the dealer) and it weighed 2639 pounds. However, Mini and Edmunds agree with 2678. Close enough for me.

The one you weighed probably had less than a full tank of gas. Or maybe the scale was slightly off.

Originally posted by Jimbo:
The RSX Type S is closer to the ITR. It has more horsepower than the Mini Cooper S, 200 hp, has a 6-speed like the Mini, but it is heavier than the Mini too (2767). It also has more room. It's also $3K more expensive too. I'm considering the RSX too. But both the RSX and Civic Si are kind of commonplace, IMHO.

The Mini will be as commonplace as the RSX, given its current popularity.

Also, the Mini generally sells for above MSRP, the RSX for less, so the difference is probably less than $3K.

The RSX is more reliable, more powerful, faster, more comfortable. But the Mini is "cuter" and attracts more attention right now, before it becomes more commonplace. Get whatever one turns you on.

Originally posted by Jimbo:
It's hard to compare cars on isolated track experiences. I've been outdriven in my NSX by a seasoned WRX owner, but I don't think anyone would claim that the WRX is a better sports or track car than the NSX.

Differences in driver skill are usually far greater than differences in the cars' capabilities. That is less true in the BMW CCA instructor run group, where the differences in driver skill are much narrower. Especially since the instructors driving the Minis were turning laps much, much slower than other cars they had previously driven. They were by far the two slowest cars in the instructor group, even though the instructors were very experienced. "Let's motor!" Motor right on past the Mini, that is.

BTW, is Mini usually written in all uppercase, e.g. MINI? I notice that Edmunds uses that format.

 

[Jimbo]

I'm not sure if the Mini will be more common than the RSX or the Civic Si. Perhaps the Si. I haven't seen too many Civic Si's on the road.

The Mini dealer I went to (Princeton BMW/MINI) sells them for MSRP. You might be right about getting discounts on the RSX and/or Civic Si.

For some reason the Civic Si doesn't seem to be selling all that well. My local Honda dealer has had the same Si on the lot for nearly a month.

Perhaps all the potential Civic Si customers out there are buying WRXs. Now the WRX is certainly interesting. If I really cared about track performance for this vehicle I'm considering, the WRX would be something to look at. But it's just so...blah and sedan-ish looking, IMHO, of course.

As far as reliability goes, I think it's too early to tell on both the RSX or the Mini. Obviously, both companies have good reputations, but both cars are new models. I suspect both cars will be fine in the quality/reliability department.

If I get the Mini (MINI), somehow I'll just have to live with the possibility that if I ever decide to track it, I might get beat by an ITR.

Or, I can opt for the 200 HP upgrade due out soon...

http://www.newminisport.com/

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
1976 Honda Accord 5 spd, 3 door Blue/Blue
1977 Honda Accord - Custom - Under Construction
1986 Chevy Suburban
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html

 

[nsxtasy]

The WRX is very heavy, which is why its performance is less than spectacular, despite a lot of horses.

Its reliability is also terrible. I know one owner who bought his Rex new and sold it after 900 miles because he had so many problems with it.

Brakes and suspension are also often criticized as weak points on that car.

It's a good engine in search of a car to match.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 28 October 2002).]