T-Minus 2 years

[DigitalFusion]

Hey all,

I have been lurking here since the early 2000's (back in the UBB-powered days). I finally registered for an account a few years back when I thought the chance of finally owning the car I have dreamt about since I was a pre-teen was within my reach, only to have some financial difficulties pop up once again making the ownership of an NSX out of my grasp. Things have once again turned back into my favor, and with the wifes blessing I can finally purchase an NSX once my DD is paid off as long as no other crazy unforeseen circumstances pop up and I stick with my DD for the life of the loan. This means 22 months from now I can begin my search.

I realize this post is fairly anti-climatic. Its mostly for the purpose of documenting one of my lifelong dreams, but also to ask a few questions in preparation of my long-off search. The most pressing on my mind is the budget and what I can get for it. Its frustrating to see that several years ago a 30K budget got you a fairly decent car, and now it seems that 30K only gets you the bottom of the barrel. I have seen on other sites, and a few posts on here along the lines of the quote: "buy on price, and pay twice". I'd love to find something slightly neglected for a great price and give it the love it deserves and make it 'mine' in the process. Although it seems this option is becoming more of a fantasy than a reality. If my budget is only 30K at the most, would I be better suited to wait yet another year or two and save more since 30K doesnt seem to get you much of an NSX these days?

My next question revolves around modifications. When I get one, I know the mod bug would bite me. At the same time I would be burdened by the desire to not molest this beautiful machine. I've lurked forever, but havent really noticed the topic of keeping any OEM parts on hand after mods effecting the value of the vehicle. If a person throws on an exhaust, wheels, etc but holds onto the originals, wouldnt that help with resale if need be?

 

[buckeyensx]

If I were you, I would purchase the nicest car I could realistically afford. In the long run you will be better off. 30k is definitely on the low end of the spectrum of prices these days. I would also recommend sticking with bolt on mods only (exhaust,wheels,shocks,etc.) and keeping the original OEM parts. For what it is worth, my NSX was the most expensive vehicle I have ever purchased and it is also the only vehicle I have purchased that has gone up in value during my ownership. Nice clean original cars hold there value (and then some) very well! Good luck.

 

[Wizard]

Buy as soon as you can. I foresee prices continuing to climb as the years roll on...not declining like your typical used car.

 

[brettowen]

Welcome to the forum! I guess we'll welcome you to the club in a couple years or so. :biggrin: First recommendation is don't wait 22 months to begin your search. Deals do come up from time to time and that perfect "fixer upper" you're looking for may avail itself before then. $30K for "bottom of the barrel" is a bit of an exaggeration if you ask me. There are decent cars for that price if you're patient and flexible. Absolutely agree that prices are going up though. Since buying my '91 in 2010 I've received a better return than just about any CD and certainly any savings account. Not many cars (especially at this price) can say that. Agree that bolt on (easily reversible) mods are the best way to go if you're concerned with resale. Good luck!

 

[shawn110975]

had several offers of mint NSX's for 32K with mild upgrades etc. its not impossible but you can find them.

don't worry about miles that doesn't mean anything to an NSX. if an NSX can drive me home its worth it.

when you buy something for 30K and in 2 years its worth 40K I think that's the best place to put your money

goodluck and read this article that all future new owners should read.

http://www.superstreetonline.com/features/htup-0810-acura-nsx-buyers-guide/

 

[blue_myriddn]

If you are on a budget, look for a car that has been modded rather than doing modifications yourself.
Don't worry about the impact on the value - in your price range you are already at the bottom of the spectrum and the modifications aren't going to matter as much as say they would on a low mileage 1991/2005.
Avoid modifications until the car is paid off to avoid getting yourself in a financial hole.
Make a big spreadsheet over the next 10 months tracking every car that comes up that fits your basic criteria and watch how long it sells, if the price drops, etc. After 10 months you will have a strong grasp on pricing and should be ready to jump when that deal comes along.

Good luck!

 

[DigitalFusion]

Thanks for all the welcome messages and insights!

I've sporadically checked pricing over the years trying to get an idea of what I would need to spend. The prices, while trending towards increasing every year, are all over the place for these things. I like the spreadsheet idea, and actually added a NSX sheet to my massive on-going project spreadsheet that I have kept for the last 10 years to do just what blue_myriddn suggested. The problem is that sellers do not always disclose the actual selling price, just the asking price. I like that you can view the selling price on ebay auctions, but the ebay prices vs standard sales prices seem to be fairly different.

I also have a really hard time with choosing any criteria at all to be honest. The only thing I really know is that I would like black interior. Exterior-wise, I know my color choices will be quite limited since with my budget I will be looking at the earlier models that only came in red, black, silver or possibly white exterior. I would be happy with any of those colors to be honest. Red is my least favorite color normally, but a red NSX reminds me of the poster I had as a kid, and was the image of the NSX that I fell in love with. Black is a pain in the but to keep healthy looking and seems to show every swirl and defect so much more than any other color, but a black NSX looks pretty sleek and stealthy and the law enforcement does not seem to notice darker window tint on a black vehicle as often as other colors in my previous experiences (window tint laws here in MN are very silly, only allowing 50% tint). Silver has never been a color I liked for vehicles, for what ever reason it struck me a sterile, but I still wouldnt turn down a great condition NSX in that color in my price range! I like white because it seems to hide any flaws in the paint so well.

The other issue I have is that I really like the color matched roof on the 95+. I'd love to find a 1991, but would feel horrible if I had the roof color matched. Would finding a pre-95 and color matching the roof hurt the value of the vehicle?

 

[blue_myriddn]

Regarding asking pricing vs sold prices:

If a car sells in less than a week, it was either at or below market price
If a car sells in less than a month it was likely at asking price
If a car takes longer to sell, odds are the sale price was lower than the asking price.

So you can watch when a car sells to get an idea. There is a bit of variation for heavily modded cars, automatics, etc - basically things that require a specific buyer rather than the general public. You can also toss in some time for what season (summer = faster sales, winter = slower). If there is a car that is *exactly* what you are looking for, it also doesn't hurt to PM the person and ask politely what the sale price is as you are looking for a similar vehicle. Some people are fine letting you know. Car meets and NSXCA events are also a good time to get some solid pricing data from people.

re: color match
If you are in the $30k range - you can pretty much do what you want and not worry so much about the value of the car. enjoy yourself rather than worrying too much. Or just buy a black car

 

[brettowen]

Would finding a pre-95 and color matching the roof hurt the value of the vehicle?

As a general rule, any non-factory paint negatively impacts the value of a vehicle. Unless the existing paintwork was subpar to begin with, I don't believe this would be an exception. But this is all really much ado about nothing until you pick out a vehicle.

 

[DigitalFusion]

Honestly, what I would LOVE would be to find something that needs rescuing/restoration.

I'd prefer to spend 10-15K on a project car, and then spend another 15-20K+ bringing it back to life. I like doing things this way as you get that sense of accomplishment, and feel like you earned the end result. Plus you end up knowing the vehicle much more intimately, and you know exactly what you have and can document the process to be able to not just look back on for reference, but also to remissness about years down the road.

I've done this with most of my other projects from restoring an antique pool table instead of buying a new one, owning several salvage/repairable vehicles ranging from an ATV melted into a puddle from fire damage, a couple of salvage/repairable motorcycles, to both mine and my wifes last two DD's each having been salvaged vehicles. I want to stay away from salvage branded titles or vehicles with collision damage in this particular case, but something neglected and or in need of some TLC would be amazing and right up my alley. Plus, with any luck this wouldn't just be a labor of love on a project that will do nothing but depreciate, but I might even break even or see some appreciation over the years of ownership and have the added bonus of knowing I saved one of these machines from the brink of oblivion.

I've started attempting to document the average cost of repairs and maintenance that something like this might require based on the information I have found in posts here and on the wiki. Maybe I am dreaming and/or being naive?

 

[JoseJA1979]

If I were you I'd get rid of your current DD and get an older reliable car (Civic, Accord, Camry, etc) that you can pay cash for so that your NSX search starts now! As crazy as prices have been lately who knows where they'll be in 2 years. My .02...good luck

 

[Aluminsx]

My rule of thumb regarding pretty much any car I have is that the mods should be reversible and you should absolutely keep the OEM Parts. Modifications to cars are always a personal thing and not to everyone's taste. A stock, unmolested, NSX is going to be worth significantly more than a modified one down the road if not now. As an example check out the prices of CRX's.....a low mileage original CRX is selling for more than it retailed for back in the 80's and 90's.

 

[DigitalFusion]

Buy as soon as you can. I foresee prices continuing to climb as the years roll on...not declining like your typical used car.

First recommendation is don't wait 22 months to begin your search.

Buy as soon as you can. I foresee prices continuing to climb as the years roll on...not declining like your typical used car.

If I were you I'd get rid of your current DD and get an older reliable car (Civic, Accord, Camry, etc) that you can pay cash for so that your NSX search starts now! As crazy as prices have been lately who knows where they'll be in 2 years. My .02...good luck

The earliest I would be comfortable pulling the trigger would be June or July as that is when a different financial burden will be paid off. I would also pretty much have to finance 100% of the purchase price.

 

[DigitalFusion]

I've officially started my search, but with a max price of 28K for now. Come May that price can increase each month. But to be honest, Im still really hoping for a low-buck rescue project that I can sink some time and money into and still end around the 35K mark when 'done'. I put quotes around done, because we all know something like this is never done!

 

[naaman]

Thanks for all the welcome messages and insights!

I've sporadically checked pricing over the years trying to get an idea of what I would need to spend. The prices, while trending towards increasing every year, are all over the place for these things. I like the spreadsheet idea, and actually added a NSX sheet to my massive on-going project spreadsheet that I have kept for the last 10 years to do just what blue_myriddn suggested. The problem is that sellers do not always disclose the actual selling price, just the asking price. I like that you can view the selling price on ebay auctions, but the ebay prices vs standard sales prices seem to be fairly different.

I also have a really hard time with choosing any criteria at all to be honest. The only thing I really know is that I would like black interior. Exterior-wise, I know my color choices will be quite limited since with my budget I will be looking at the earlier models that only came in red, black, silver or possibly white exterior. I would be happy with any of those colors to be honest. Red is my least favorite color normally, but a red NSX reminds me of the poster I had as a kid, and was the image of the NSX that I fell in love with. Black is a pain in the but to keep healthy looking and seems to show every swirl and defect so much more than any other color, but a black NSX looks pretty sleek and stealthy and the law enforcement does not seem to notice darker window tint on a black vehicle as often as other colors in my previous experiences (window tint laws here in MN are very silly, only allowing 50% tint). Silver has never been a color I liked for vehicles, for what ever reason it struck me a sterile, but I still wouldnt turn down a great condition NSX in that color in my price range! I like white because it seems to hide any flaws in the paint so well.

The other issue I have is that I really like the color matched roof on the 95+. I'd love to find a 1991, but would feel horrible if I had the roof color matched. Would finding a pre-95 and color matching the roof hurt the value of the vehicle?

With regard to the color match thing, I can say this:

When I bought my first project car (98 Camaro), I bought it for it's mileage and overall condition (a 12-year old car with 44k miles, flawless paint and solid maintenance history). I hated the color (factory) and the after market wheels that the previous owner installed. 5 years later, I love the color and still hate the wheels.

Since budget is a concern for you (like it is for me), I wouldn't even sweat the color match thing until you've owned the car long enough and saved up enough money to decide whether you want to put that money toward paint or toward a performance upgrade (KWs or headers/exhaust, for example). I used to prefer the look of the color matched roof; but after looking at NSXs for over a decade, I find that I prefer the black roof top now... except on Kaiser Silver and any blue NSX... those ones look just as good with the color match.

- - - Updated - - -

I've officially started my search, but with a max price of 28K for now. Come May that price can increase each month. But to be honest, Im still really hoping for a low-buck rescue project that I can sink some time and money into and still end around the 35K mark when 'done'. I put quotes around done, because we all know something like this is never done!

Have you had a project car before? I suspect you'll find that $7000 won't get you far, especially if the car needs body/paint work to meet your standards.

Then again, looking back, I thought $10K was a ridiculous amount of cash to drop on a car... but as the mod bug bites, you'll find that $500 here, $1000 there, and you'll surpass $10K before you know it. Especially if you want a meaningful amount of more horsepower.

 

[DigitalFusion]

I have had many project vehicles before. I fully realize that 7K doesnt get you very far at all, and even less on the NSX. Thats not what I was saying though. I think I just worded my last message poorly.

I've officially started my search, but with a max price of 28K for now. Come May that price can increase each month. But to be honest, Im still really hoping for a low-buck rescue project that I can sink some time and money into and still end around the 35K mark when 'done'. I put quotes around done, because we all know something like this is never done!

What I was intending to say was that I have started my search with a max price of 28K for now. Meaning I am looking at vehicles with up to a 28K asking price. The second part of that message was referencing something I said in an earlier post. I would really love to find a very low buck project car (15-20K), sink a pile of time, sweat, tears, & money into it (15-20K), and end up around 35 when its all said and done

 

[naaman]

Oh, yeah... that makes much more sense.

 

[JD Cross]

My experience is the best NSX to buy is the one with the best maintenance record and least modified.
Modified but has all the OEM parts included in the sale is fine.

NSX's are not cheap to maintain and an owner who has done all the needed maintenance will likely have kept the paint, interior, wheels in top condition as well.
I don't think you'll find any well maintained NSX's for $30K so you'll be looking at cars needing some amount of work.
As bubbadog already mentioned buy the best example you can find.

A note of caution about fixer-uppers
There would seem to be four NSX markets now:

Well maintained stock or near stock with oem parts included.- Highest prices and offer the best long term value
Modded with no OEM parts included.- Lower in price line as the market size is smaller due to the mods and expensive to restore to OEM
Heavily modded ( body kits, big wings etc.) - Very small market and it appears the cost of these mods is not recoverable at time of sale.
Fixer uppers - salvage title, badly neglected etc. The lowest prices and easily the most risky purchase.

You should also be aware that NSX's are not cheap to run
My 91 has cost me .65 per mile to run over the 100,050 miles and 24 years I've owned it
The .65 covers maintenance, fuel, tires, and insurance.
Maintenance alone is .41 cents per mile.
If you drive about 4200 miles a year like I have, you can expect to pay an average of $2800 per year.

 

[naaman]

My experience is the best NSX to buy is the one with the best maintenance record and least modified.
Modified but has all the OEM parts included in the sale is fine.

NSX's are not cheap to maintain and an owner who has done all the needed maintenance will likely have kept the paint, interior, wheels in top condition as well.
I don't think you'll find any well maintained NSX's for $30K so you'll be looking at cars needing some amount of work.
As bubbadog already mentioned buy the best example you can find.

A note of caution about fixer-uppers
There would seem to be four NSX markets now:

Well maintained stock or near stock with oem parts included.- Highest prices and offer the best long term value
Modded with no OEM parts included.- Lower in price line as the market size is smaller due to the mods and expensive to restore to OEM
Heavily modded ( body kits, big wings etc.) - Very small market and it appears the cost of these mods is not recoverable at time of sale.
Fixer uppers - salvage title, badly neglected etc. The lowest prices and easily the most risky purchase.

You should also be aware that NSX's are not cheap to run
My 91 has cost me .65 per mile to run over the 100,050 miles and 24 years I've owned it
The .65 covers maintenance, fuel, tires, and insurance.
Maintenance alone is .41 cents per mile.
If you drive about 4200 miles a year like I have, you can expect to pay an average of $2800 per year.

What a car nerd. I love it!

 

[JD Cross]

Here's your project car.
http://ww2.copart.com/us/Lot/14764435?eid=email_US_mktg_reminder_57_NV_Las_Vegas_Featured

 

[DigitalFusion]

My experience is the best NSX to buy is the one with the best maintenance record and least modified.
Modified but has all the OEM parts included in the sale is fine.

NSX's are not cheap to maintain and an owner who has done all the needed maintenance will likely have kept the paint, interior, wheels in top condition as well.
I don't think you'll find any well maintained NSX's for $30K so you'll be looking at cars needing some amount of work.
As bubbadog already mentioned buy the best example you can find.

A note of caution about fixer-uppers
There would seem to be four NSX markets now:

Well maintained stock or near stock with oem parts included.- Highest prices and offer the best long term value
Modded with no OEM parts included.- Lower in price line as the market size is smaller due to the mods and expensive to restore to OEM
Heavily modded ( body kits, big wings etc.) - Very small market and it appears the cost of these mods is not recoverable at time of sale.
Fixer uppers - salvage title, badly neglected etc. The lowest prices and easily the most risky purchase.

You should also be aware that NSX's are not cheap to run
My 91 has cost me .65 per mile to run over the 100,050 miles and 24 years I've owned it
The .65 covers maintenance, fuel, tires, and insurance.
Maintenance alone is .41 cents per mile.
If you drive about 4200 miles a year like I have, you can expect to pay an average of $2800 per year.

I know they arent cheap to own/drive/maintain. I have a giant spreadsheet I have been keeping updated of all the average costs of various things from WB/TB, valve adjustments, to complete auto-to-manual swaps and everything in between. The cost of ownership isnt my main concern at all. But I love how much detail you've put into tracking it!

Here's your project car.
http://ww2.copart.com/us/Lot/14764435?eid=email_US_mktg_reminder_57_NV_Las_Vegas_Featured

You replied here too? I guess I will paste my email response to you.

"Thanks for the heads up on that one Jim! I have 15 bookmarks I open multiple times a day (I know because when I open the folder, chrome asks me if I really want to open 15 tabs), copart is one of them even though I am trying to stay away from salvage. I've been following that one since it had 0 bids.

Still trying to hold out until I find a clean title project, or save up some more to get some thing a little nicer. "

- - - Updated - - -

I should prolly clarify where I stand a bit...

If there were only two sides to NSX ownership, either purist or mod'er, I'd be on the purist side of the fence. I like aftermarket wheels, some suspension tweaks, and exhaust. Honestly, when I see an ad with an aftermarket stereo I kinda think to myself "meh". Having said that, I would love to see a coupe with an LLBP paint and color matched roof, so Im kinda somewhere in between. A berlina black '91 with bad paint and some maintenance needed, would be right up my alley. When I say I am looking for a project, that doesnt mean I want an NSX at all costs regardless of the cars history or condition. I want to do a restoration with purity in mind, but slight deviations being acceptable.

Something along the lines of what Cambo is doing with his 91 (http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/181804-Cambo-s-91-Formula-Red-Refresh-Build-from-Oz). If the price is right, maybe taking it a step further with maintenance items and upgrades to brakes, suspension, interior.

 

[Aaron94T]

My advice would be no not start shopping until you are ready to pull the trigger. I have shopped for cars prior to being able to buy them and all it did was get me upset when the "perfect" car popped up and I was not ready. If the boss thinks your finances will be ready in 22 months and you agree, stick to that. Stop shopping and just read and enjoy the site. Go to local meets and talk to owners in the mean time. At about the 15 month mark start your search up again. At that time they may be $32k but not to worry as they are going to be $34k 2 years after you purchase so you will end up ahead. Good luck.

 

[buckeyensx]

Can you really get 100% financing on a car that is over twenty years old? The op stated he was going to finance 100% of the purchase.

 

[DigitalFusion]

I would only finance 100% if I purchased prior to May. After May I would be able to stick $850-1000 into the 'NSX savings account' each month for a down payment. This is why I wanted to wait 2 years to begin with since I would have 20-24K down, and the 500/month payment on my DD would be done

Yes, you can finance 100% on a car that is over 20 years old with some lenders, including my Credit Union.

 

[davidf]

Finding a rescue car and spending 10/15k is'nt always realistic. Find yourself a near 100,000 mile well cared for,meticulously maintained, never wrecked NSX for 28/30 grand and you have a long happy life together.