SynergyAutoworks vs evof575gtc

[Rogue MotorSports]

First off, i would like to thank all of prime members for the support and warm welcome, i received in the last few days. I am creating this post to bring the "whole" story out.

We acquired 2 Ariel Atoms, 1 US Atom, and 1 of the only 3 Uk Atoms in the country. There is no after market support for the Atom, so we are going to be the support. We attended Sema in 2007 to find a company to manufacture parts for us. After consulting with 5 different carbon fiber product manufactures we chose NRG, they are well known for high quality products, great business ethics, and they are located in the US (although production is outsourced to China).

December 10, 2007 We drove our trailer with the Atoms in it out to California to drop them off at NRG. They completely stripped the cars to start the molding and replicating procedures. While we were there, the President of NRG approached us. He knew that we had a couple NSX's and was

wondering if we wanted some product that he had left after a business deal gone bad. This is the story we got from NRG.

Erick went to NRG to get the diffuser replicated, while there a verbal contract was made. In order for NRG to profit, and the manufacture to profit a minimum of 80 pieces would have to be made. There is no upfront cost, no mold fees, no trademarks, nothing. The only thing he would pay for is the product once it is ready. NRG owns the rights to everything, nothing but the product was ever purchased from them. When the product came in, only 50 of the 80 pieces were purchased. Since this piece was custom made for Erick, he had exclusive rights to sell it for 6 months. For over a year NRG tried to get Erick to purchase the other 30 piece, but he would not, at this time NRG lost money on it so they came to us.

They gave us a price of $175 each. We took 5 of these home with us in December, and tried to find local NSX owners to test them for us before we put them on the market. The only local owner with a +02 did not have his car anymore. That is why we originally made a post on here to find a test vehicle. We figured this product is on the market for $7xx-$9xx we can offer a better reasonable rate on it at selling it for $430. We have not sold a single piece, only sent one out for testing, once that was complete, we were going to sell them.

The day I posted that we need a test vehicle, Erick sent me a pm, email, and replied to my thread on how he does not want me selling "his" product, this is not his product it is NRG's. I tried to be respectful, and businesslike, but he is making it very difficult. He never responded to any of my pm's. I replied to his emails, and his pm's asking for him to call me so we can discuss this matter, but instead he calls NRG.

He called NRG asking them to make us put a MODE 4 label on the diffuser if we were going to sell it, and to make us raise the price from $430 to $7xx. NRG would not do that, they said we can sell it for whatever we want, because we know have exclusive rights on the product.

We are not here to put anyone out of business, or create havoc. Like i said from the beginning, We are here to provide this community with great products at reasonable rates. I have received numerous welcome pm's from people that are glad we are here, and some that are not so glad. I can double or triple the MSRP on price to sell on here if thats what you would like, but then how would i be able to sleep at night knowing i was taking advantage of you. We are a business, and like every business we are here to make money, but we are not here to take advantage of you.

What does the prime community want or need ? A high quality product at a reasonable price so everyone can benefit, or the same high quality product at an outrageous price where only a few people can justify the spending?

Is our business welcome here? If it is not we will leave the forum, and contact our manufacture to stop production on the other items we have coming.

Edited a little. we got our first 5 for $175 and the rest of them we are getting for $162, and for those of you thinking we can sell them cheaper becuase we are getting them cheaper, your wrong, we are paying more for them than the first buyer did.

 

[Zishan]

I think you going the distance to even attempt an explanation says something. And I think, if what you say is true, some people owe you an apology.

I hope everyone can come to an understand and both vendors can continue to provide the NSX community amicably.

Subscribed to see what else has to be said.


I wonder how Burger King employees feels about McDonalds employees, and vice versa? Speaking of, its my lunch time! :smile:

 

[jimbonuttz]

I'll make it quick and simple.

PLEASE STAY!

 

[Ponyboy]

I don't think there's any reason you should leave the community. You own an NSX (2 at last count) and are offering stock (from an excess supply) at a drastically lower rate.

Though I've never purchased product from evof575gtc, I don't think I've ever seen a negative remark about the guy. He's given excellent customer service and developed a loyal/friendly following. I suspect that's why you're getting the evident pushback. Your post above sounds like you've made a decent attempt to reconcile though.

All that said, there is more than enough room in this community for another good NSX vendor and, IMHO, you're welcome to contribute and offer products here.

 

[Frank Spano]

Stay, your giving great pricing to the nsx community. Will you guys make the type-r rugs, also nsx-r floor mats in the red color, don't want to ruin the ones I bought from Vance. Thanks, Frank

 

[DRIFTER]

I have been watching both threads and it seems to me that the problem is with the distributors not being completely honest with its dealers.

 

[octechgeek]

I have been watching both threads and it seems to me that the problem is with the distributors not being completely honest with its dealers.

BINGO!

 

[WingZ]

Hell yeah your welcome! Business is business and you've gone the extra mile to explain what was going on and you didn't have to do that.

 

[Mode4]

We have tried to avoid getting into the specifics of the matter as we felt that it served no purpose in dragging it out publically. However, due to the current climate surrounding this issue, we think that it is necessary to make clear our position in this.

Synergyautoworks’ understanding of the situation relies completely on the word of their vendor, and given the vendor’s prominence in the market, it is certainly understandable that they would pick their word over ours. However, it by no means properly illustrates what has led us to this point.

As stated in another thread, Mode4 was started by a group of NSX owners who wanted to bring a reasonable median to product and price accessibility. We decided to begin our journey by creating an accessible NSX-R diffuser. Because of connections that we had available to us at the time, we began working with a local vendor who had contacts in manufacturing that could produce the diffuser for us. We were told that by doubling our intended order, we would secure ownership rights to the mould; and so we agreed as it was always our intention to have such ownership. We provided them with a sample from which to create the mould and began our journey of bringing to market our very first product.

The factory provided a completed sample through our vendor for our approval. Upon inspection of the item, we relayed certain contingencies to our vendor regarding the quality of the sample before agreeing to full the production run of the pieces as product quality was of paramount importance in our endeavor. The product was produced and delivered without too many problems.

All was well until we spotted the diffuser that we had commissioned to be produced selling on ebay. Being that we had been assured full ownership rights to the mould, we realized that we had to confront our vendor about it. We questioned our vendor with the printed ebay ad in hand which had pictures of the diffuser installed on an NSX parked in front of their office here in Southern California and with the ebay vendor in Florida. They claimed to not know how the ebay vendor got a hold of the part and pictures, but apologized and vowed to look into the matter. After some time and a bit of badgering, they told us that they had obtained the diffuser from the ebay vendor and admitted to having an extra two (2) pieces produced with our batch just in case any of the ones delivered to us were damaged. We suspected that they had produced more pieces than what we had authorized in our order but short of raiding their warehouse, we saw no way of pursuing the suspicion much further.

Months later, they approached us with a NEW requirement to purchase an additional 40 pieces thus revising the minimum quantity required for us to own the mould. This is long after the original deal was struck. We argued that it was not part of the agreement that we had made before the pieces went into production, and we did not need the additional 40 pieces that they were trying to push on us. We told them that at that point in time, we did not foresee needing more pieces and instructed them to have the mould broken to which they agreed.

No more issues came to our attention after that incident, so we went about our business of planning and working on other products.

Now a year after our initial launch of the diffuser, we find that the diffusers for which the mould was assured to us are now being sold to any reseller who would take them on. When questioned, our vendor denied the probability of the deal that we struck more than a year ago, and came up with commitments and conditions that were never part of our original discussions.

As we are sure that many of you are wondering about signed contracts, we admit to committing the most amateur of business mistakes in that we failed to obtain the assurances in writing. As such we realized that we faced an uphill battle in proving that we were indeed assured ownership rights to the mould. Coupled with the vendor associating their own name with the product that we had commissioned them to produce for us, we chose to walk away from this project and chalk it off to a lesson learned.

We had many reasons for pricing our diffuser the way that we did, but none of them included the intention of gouging our fellow NSX owners. In fact, it was completely counter to our motivation in forming Mode4 and to all of our efforts as NSX owners bringing a few more toys to the community.

This statement is not for the purpose of prolonging this unfortunate episode, but we felt compelled to make clear our side of this affair. Although some of their actions may be questionable, our argument is not with Synergyautoworks as their knowledge of the matter is limited to what they have been told. However, as our vendor is in all probability desperate to move the diffusers that they had produced without our knowledge, they are undoubtedly facilitating a price war as they certainly have a price advantage over us.

We want to make clear, however, that our price of $260 shipped will not change. All buyers have the right to make their own choices and are welcome to purchase the diffuser for $45 less should they so choose. Should current buyers of the Mode4 diffuser at the discounted price choose to, they may request a refund so that they may purchase the from the other vendor. Mode4 has made its decision to stop selling these diffusers when our last one has sold as we feel that they have been tarnished by these unfortunate circumstances. Any inventory left unsold will be destroyed.

To further clarify our relationship with the vendor, Mode4 was not assigned rights to the product. It was the agreement that we owned the rights from the very start. The rights were not theirs to assign. The agreement that we had made with our vendor prior to having the parts produced did not have conditions requiring any sort of commitment to future orders. All obligations on the part of Mode4 were met upon payment and delivery of the order. It was the vendor who turned the deal around on us after the fact. They chose to produce many more pieces on their own and outside of our agreement, and are now selling these pieces to any vendor who would take them so that they remain unscathed by their own errors. Synergyautoworks should also be cautioned that their "exclusive" deal may mean something else to the vendor as the option to purchase more pieces was indeed offered to Mode4 when the vendor was approached about this matter.

We regret the point that this fiasco has reached as we had hoped to move past this with minimal circumstance. We could not, however, leave the untruths that have been published about Mode4 remain unanswered.

We thank all who have supported us in our endeavors and all who continue to do so.

-MODE4-

 

[NSXrunner]

No harm, no foul, no blood, no ambulance.
- Chic Hearn

Stay :smile:

 

[DrVolkl]

We had many reasons for pricing our diffuser the way that we did, but none of them included the intention of gouging our fellow NSX owners. In fact, it was completely counter to our motivation in forming Mode4 and to all of our efforts as NSX owners bringing a few more toys to the community.

-MODE4-

If you were selling them for $400 I might be more willing to believe that. It appears to me (and sorry if I'm wrong) but you attempted to corner the market and then exploit the monopoly.

Since that has failed you are now willing to give a reasonable price...perhaps the price that these should have been sold at all along.

Beyond that...well, such is the life of owning a rare car.

(I really don't want to step on any toes, or get into the middle of this. These are only my opinions. It just irks me that everyone tries to maximize their profit margin and gets upset when someone tries to come in and compete for business)

 

[heySkippy]

Just as I figured, there are two sides to the story. Three in this case.

 

[charleysung]

If Synergy can sell these parts for $215 shipped (and is obviously not taking a loss and making some sort of a profit), why was MODE4 selling the same pieces for so much more, and what kind of profit margin they were extracting from prime members?

 

[UnhuZ]

If Synergy can sell these parts for $215 shipped (and is obviously not taking a loss and making some sort of a profit), why was MODE4 selling the same pieces for so much more, and what kind of profit margin they were extracting from prime members?

the answer is - "simple wise A$$ business strategy"...

for my understandigs of both truths... the vendor (NRG) produced more parts than Mode4 asked...then Mode4 didn't want the extra production...then the vendor had those extra parts in stock at loss... so... whatever they would sell them for was all profit....so they sold to the Synergy guys at $150 a piece.

my conclusion is that the price payed by Mode4 for each piece is well above $150, and the $150 price done by the vendor to Synergy was done to minimize the loss.

if 2 Prime Vendors pay different prices for the same part, obviously the sale price will be different, even if they use the same profit %.

i think, based on everything i've read, that the shame of all this is on the main vendor (NRG).. being a wise A$$ is not a good business practice.

Just my 2 cts

 

[whatisreal7]

Market price, and hence the inherent value of a product, is determined by however much the market is willing to pay for it. So if someone was willing to pay $600+ for Mode4's diffuser, then that is how much it is worth. No need to fault Mode4.

Competition is the grease of capitalism, and at the end of the day benefits the consumer. All Synergy has done, by entering the market place, is it has provided competition in the supplier ecosystem, and at the end of the day created a new equilibrium in market price.

Mode4 should not be blamed for the $600 price, and Synergy should not be blamed for a price war. It is what it is.

 

[Mode4]

To be clear, we are not upset that new companies are providing competition. We also stress again that our arguement is not with Synergy, but with the vendor that we worked with who are trying to turn a profit on our backs.

Our pricing at the time was inline with market conditions and included several other considerations. Mode4 did not embark on this endevour as resellers of existing products which would certainly have had far less and risk and capital involved.

It isn't about competition, but about unscrupulous business practices by a vendor.

 

[whatisreal7]

One more comment:

One potential downside to this is in the event that the margins for this market segment had eroded to a point where suppliers cann't re-invest profits to R&D/engineer new/innovative products, NSX owners lose out.

That is ofcourse unless you are the low-cost leader, AND, you can release new, quality products. Then in this case you deserve to win. In any other case, the fact that a vendor is willing to re-invest in new products can/should be seen as an additional value-add; by which a premium to its goods is justifiable. All marketing, my friends :wink:

 

[FuryNSX]

the answer is - "simple wise A$$ business strategy"...

for my understandigs of both truths... the vendor (NRG) produced more parts than Mode4 asked...then Mode4 didn't want the extra production...then the vendor had those extra parts in stock at loss... so... whatever they would sell them for was all profit....so they sold to the Synergy guys at $150 a piece.

my conclusion is that the price payed by Mode4 for each piece is well above $150, and the $150 price done by the vendor to Synergy was done to minimize the loss.

if 2 Prime Vendors pay different prices for the same part, obviously the sale price will be different, even if they use the same profit %.

i think, based on everything i've read, that the shame of all this is on the main vendor (NRG).. being a wise A$$ is not a good business practice.

Just my 2 cts

I've come to the same conclusion. And if such is true, it seems pretty rough to say that Mode4 was out to "exploit the monopoly".

Certain items seem pretty clear to me. NRG made some diffuser pieces. Mode4 paid some price greater than $150 for their stock. Sold it at more than that to make some sort of profit and get return in their investment. Extra stock was sold at $150, likely at blowout prices to eliminate excess inventory. Synergy bought them and sold at a price just north of $200.

Sounds just like businesses trying to run a business.

If Synergy can sell these parts for $215 shipped (and is obviously not taking a loss and making some sort of a profit), why was MODE4 selling the same pieces for so much more, and what kind of profit margin they were extracting from prime members?

It's likely Mode4 paid substantially more than Synergy. The price given to Synergy, which appears to have been $150, was a low price to induce inventory clearance.

One question unaswered is what did Mode4 originally pay for their stock.

And I don't think that's a question that they need to answer.

 

[octechgeek]

the answer is - "simple wise A$$ business strategy"...

for my understandigs of both truths... the vendor (NRG) produced more parts than Mode4 asked...then Mode4 didn't want the extra production...then the vendor had those extra parts in stock at loss... so... whatever they would sell them for was all profit....so they sold to the Synergy guys at $150 a piece.

my conclusion is that the price payed by Mode4 for each piece is well above $150, and the $150 price done by the vendor to Synergy was done to minimize the loss.

if 2 Prime Vendors pay different prices for the same part, obviously the sale price will be different, even if they use the same profit %.

i think, based on everything i've read, that the shame of all this is on the main vendor (NRG).. being a wise A$$ is not a good business practice.

Just my 2 cts

Good observation. This entire thing is not about vendors vs. vendors, like many members here have quoted over and over "there are plenty of room here for vendors and the more the merrier." In this entire situation the "shame" is on NRG and how they do business. Always out for the quick buck to screw whoever or whatever and not think about the long term benefits of building a client base and some sort of relationship.

Stories will be told from all different angles. Nobody wins from all this because it will just go on and on til the point where we not gonna have any more vendors here because when we start getting to the point where vendors are just out to undercut each other down to the final cost on what each vendor has paid for an item ( and that varies alot depending on how manufactures wants to screw them) without making any kind of profit to stay in operation and to provide newer products, than we all are screwed as a community. welcome to the world of Bone stock NSX's. and if you want to talk about being raped...lets start paying all dealer pricing. Now that's rape.

Lets try not to get there.

 

[NSX R-GT]

I've come to the same conclusion. And if such is true, it seems pretty rough to say that Mode4 was out to "exploit the monopoly".

Certain items seem pretty clear to me. NRG made some diffuser pieces. Mode4 paid some price greater than $150 for their stock. Sold it at more than that to make some sort of profit and get return in their investment. Extra stock was sold at $150, likely at blowout prices to eliminate excess inventory. Synergy bought them and sold at a price just north of $200.

Sounds just like businesses trying to run a business.




It's likely Mode4 paid substantially more than Synergy. The price given to Synergy, which appears to have been $150, was a low price to induce inventory clearance.

One question unaswered is what did Mode4 originally pay for their stock.

And I don't think that's a question that they need to answer.

silly people!!!!!

if Mode4 pay more than $150, u think he will sell it for $260 shipped?
he is selling for $260 becasue he still wants $100 profit!

 

[demigod]

Taken from the other thread:

You like everyone else on Ericks's side have not heard the whole, story or have not read what i posted. I will add the whole story later, and you will see how bad you were being taken advantage of.

You know the whole story because you were there when they made the agreement from the start? I don't think so..

Or are you just relaying the lies told to you by NRG? I think so..

It's plain to see that NRG isn't doing too well as a business for them to stoop this low and stab MODE4 in the back. It's a shame really. I don't forsee them producing anything new or innovative for the NSX in the future. Unless they make a mould off a DF part and try and resell it for cheaper so they can hurt DF also..

 

[charleysung]

Market price, and hence the inherent value of a product, is determined by however much the market is willing to pay for it. So if someone was willing to pay $600+ for Mode4's diffuser, then that is how much it is worth. No need to fault Mode4.

But MODE4 stated the following: "Mode4 was started by a group of NSX owners who wanted to bring a reasonable median to product and price accessibility."

Marking up to $600+ for something that cost them only $150 is not "bring[ing] a reasonable median to product and price accessibility."

I understand that marking something up 400% is a business decision that may be justified by market conditions. But they should not represent themselves as Robin Hoods when they are in fact a business making handsome profits off of prime members.

 

[FuryNSX]

silly people!!!!!

if Mode4 pay more than $150, u think he will sell it for $260 shipped?
he is selling for $260 becasue he still wants $100 profit!

I honestly don't know what he paid for them, but let's put it another way. If you strongly bellieve that you can get an INITIAL batch of new product similar in size and scope as this diffuser for around $150 per item, AND no one else is selling anything like it, you should get in the business of selling it, because you'll find a very fertile market to sell at $400+.

(Then again, I may be wrong, and actual costs for items like these are around $100. But factoring in sourcing of the original shape, making a mold, actual materials costs, labor, shipping, and anything else, I'd be surprised if that were the case.)

But MODE4 stated the following: "Mode4 was started by a group of NSX owners who wanted to bring a reasonable median to product and price accessibility."

Marking up to $600+ for something that cost them only $150 is not "bring[ing] a reasonable median to product and price accessibility."

I understand that marking something up 400% is a business decision that may be justified by market conditions. But they should not represent themselves as Robin Hoods when they are in fact a business making handsome profits off of prime members.

Once again, I don't know if Mode4 paid $150 for them. Mode4 hasn't said what their cost was. Only Synergy has stated that. However, I think it's highly unlikely that NRG would try to get rid of EXCESS stock selling at the same price they sold Mode4. Therefore, it's reasonable to believe that NRG sold the pieces to Mode4 at something north of $150.

 

[NSX R-GT]

come on!
u are in socal too!
drive over and ASK!
i am sure he will BS abit and then tell u its $150!

 

[KSXNSX]

Wow, it looks like all those capitalists were right about competition and bringing about better prices for the consumer eh?

I am all for keeping both vendors around, and bringing more into the mix. Let's get these prices under 100...