like i said, "watch your ass... $hit happens and things can get out of (everyone's) control in the blink of an eye".
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/30/florida.police.shot/index.html?iref=allsearch
Suggestions for cops?
- Thread starter Hasdrubal
- Start date
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/30/florida.police.shot/index.html?iref=allsearch
help not hinder, they are supposed to be civil servants, not untouchables. I have not had one pleasant experience with a police officer. At home or in Japan.
If someone is breaking a MV law they should not expect, to be not given a summons, just because they feel that somewhere, worse crimes being committed. That is ludicrous.
To infer that your personal civil agenda and expectations on the state of our society should be met before you are held accountable for your actions and obey the law is absurd.
Driving is a privilege not a right.
Bottom line is if you have broken a MV law and a police officer summons for it you need to realize you are wrong NOT them.
By no means am I a perfect driver and do not claim to be. I do stupid things too. (40 years licensed)
To the OP, when on patrol, not in pursuit or in ernst, in route to a scene, observe the same laws you are expected to enforce. Keep your temper and self in control.
To infer that your personal civil agenda and expectations on the state of our society should be met before you are held accountable for your actions and obey the law is absurd.
Driving is a privilege not a right.
Bottom line is if you have broken a MV law and a police officer summons for it you need to realize you are wrong NOT them.
By no means am I a perfect driver and do not claim to be. I do stupid things too. (40 years licensed)
To the OP, when on patrol, not in pursuit or in ernst, in route to a scene, observe the same laws you are expected to enforce. Keep your temper and self in control.
Thanks for actually listening. Here are a couple of suggestions:
1. Don't BS the public- the time you do you'll probably try it on someone much smarter than you who will see right through it. (Case: LEO told me he had to drive 20 mph over the limit to catch me, so I must have been doing 20 over. This doesn't quite add up... [ticket was quickly thrown out, but still after money and quite a bit of time was spent])
2. When possible, obey the laws, particularly with regards of aggressive driving (tailgating, swerving through traffic, etc.). I've seen way to many of these, just to pull up 3 minutes later at the same restaurant/store they had rushed to get to and in line (non-emergency case). (I understand having to drive without sirens/lights, but flash them at intersections or in traffic so people know you're on a call.)
3. Don't purposefully put the public on defensive in a car, such as trying to get them to speed by tailgating them. There are many drivers much less experienced than you on the road, and this is where LEOs can be more of a hazard than a cure.
4. Regarding what I'd prefer to see you do: pull over people who are actually driving dangerously by tailgating, weaving through traffic, etc. If a person is speeding a little in a completely open area, the chance of harm is usually not worth the ticket. (I really wish I'd see a ticket tailgater day around VA- way too many rear-endings, but nothing's done about it. CA drivers leave a lot more space than VA drivers.)
1. Don't BS the public- the time you do you'll probably try it on someone much smarter than you who will see right through it. (Case: LEO told me he had to drive 20 mph over the limit to catch me, so I must have been doing 20 over. This doesn't quite add up... [ticket was quickly thrown out, but still after money and quite a bit of time was spent])
2. When possible, obey the laws, particularly with regards of aggressive driving (tailgating, swerving through traffic, etc.). I've seen way to many of these, just to pull up 3 minutes later at the same restaurant/store they had rushed to get to and in line (non-emergency case). (I understand having to drive without sirens/lights, but flash them at intersections or in traffic so people know you're on a call.)
3. Don't purposefully put the public on defensive in a car, such as trying to get them to speed by tailgating them. There are many drivers much less experienced than you on the road, and this is where LEOs can be more of a hazard than a cure.
4. Regarding what I'd prefer to see you do: pull over people who are actually driving dangerously by tailgating, weaving through traffic, etc. If a person is speeding a little in a completely open area, the chance of harm is usually not worth the ticket. (I really wish I'd see a ticket tailgater day around VA- way too many rear-endings, but nothing's done about it. CA drivers leave a lot more space than VA drivers.)
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Thanks again, guys. I've been trying to figure out a way to get tailgaters, but it's hard in a city without too many big streets. Lately I've been trying to educate people by talking to them rather than writing tickets...
Here's one from today, tell me what you think. Parked to make a phone call, back under the trees at an intersection. Didn't even have time to start dialing when I saw a Lexus roast its tires through the intersection, hard enough to leave a cloud of smoke. Five or six other cars around when he did it.
Caught up with the guy after two blocks, and he was so mad at himself it took a while before he could talk. Started out by saying "look, I'm not here to give you the big bad cop lecture or call your parents, just tell me what happened."
Of course, he turned out to be a young guy who borrowed his father's car (big engine) and just wanted to have some fun on the way back from getting a pizza. Then I told him that I like to drive fast too, told him about my car, and that if he wants to go fast, he should do it where he's not going to hurt anyone else.
Reckless driving is a misdemeanor, plus a $216 city code violation for roasting the tires, and I let him go with a warning. I've done this a few times, hoping the kids will actually listen where a ticket would only piss them off.
Here's one from today, tell me what you think. Parked to make a phone call, back under the trees at an intersection. Didn't even have time to start dialing when I saw a Lexus roast its tires through the intersection, hard enough to leave a cloud of smoke. Five or six other cars around when he did it.
Caught up with the guy after two blocks, and he was so mad at himself it took a while before he could talk. Started out by saying "look, I'm not here to give you the big bad cop lecture or call your parents, just tell me what happened."
Of course, he turned out to be a young guy who borrowed his father's car (big engine) and just wanted to have some fun on the way back from getting a pizza. Then I told him that I like to drive fast too, told him about my car, and that if he wants to go fast, he should do it where he's not going to hurt anyone else.
Reckless driving is a misdemeanor, plus a $216 city code violation for roasting the tires, and I let him go with a warning. I've done this a few times, hoping the kids will actually listen where a ticket would only piss them off.
I doubt that this was a first time or isolated incident with this young fellow. It takes some practice to learn how to really do a burn out.
I don't believe anyone really gets caught "the first time".
You did him, nor his father any favor. IMO the only way he really learns a lesson and begins to rethink his behavior is if there are consequences not just a thrill and skip away. At the very least if you made him go to court and could reduce the charge or drop it, if you felt it was prudent and they project some remorse.
This way his Dad would know, although he may not care and think you're the one wrong but, perhaps, it is more likely the kid would realize that it was real, this screwing around stuff and that there are consequences. This behavior often escalates until it goes too far.
I believe the fines for this are stiff and for a reason, to have it mean something to a operator right where it counts, in their pocketbook.
Let a person learn that their own behavior and choices are the cause for their imposed personal financial sacrifice. Let them choose to behave irresponsibly and lose their party money for a couple of months or not.
My2cents.:wink:
I like Steveny's suggestion that Police should listen. I think you really need to be an analytical thinker to be a policeman, and you can't perform objective analysis if you haven't heard the facts.
I realize that this isn't always possible since there are "heat of the moment" decisions that need to be made based on spot assesments of a particular situation, but it would be nice if officers could be better trained to differentiate. There is a time to listen, and there is a time to react on instinct. Neither is mutually exclusive of the other, so every situation should be approached with regard to the unique circumstances involved.
Too many stories come back where a situation was escalated because the officer involved was unwilling to allow a suspect to properly explain a situation.
I am thinking of the Cop that held the Houston Running back outside of a hospital while his Mother-in-law passed away.
I also know from reviewing countless police reports regarding traffic accidents that there are a good number of officers that just don't care about details. That is really neglectful considering their observations and documentation can often be the only objective view of fact that people like Insurance Adjusters, Attorneys, or even a Jury will get to see.
I recall vividly during a subrogation review being told by the panel that the police report presented insignificant evidence due to lack of accurate detail (the officer had an incorrect street name listed in the report, and the diagram indicated additional lanes that weren't physically present.) That sort of thing is a blatent disregard of duty in my opinion.
There are times I just wish the officer would have acted as if it were him, or someone he loved that were being victimized so that the officer would be as dilligent as possible in the investigation.
Even with all that said I can't help but to agree with ChopsJazz that policework is often underappreciated. It really is the classic catch-22 damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of position, but we need you all out there if we like it or not.
So here are my suggestions
1. Listen
2. Act as if it were you in the other persons shoes
3. be dilligent
but honestly- just do the best job you can, and do it in a way that you can feel proud of. That is all we can, or should ask.
Phil
I realize that this isn't always possible since there are "heat of the moment" decisions that need to be made based on spot assesments of a particular situation, but it would be nice if officers could be better trained to differentiate. There is a time to listen, and there is a time to react on instinct. Neither is mutually exclusive of the other, so every situation should be approached with regard to the unique circumstances involved.
Too many stories come back where a situation was escalated because the officer involved was unwilling to allow a suspect to properly explain a situation.
I am thinking of the Cop that held the Houston Running back outside of a hospital while his Mother-in-law passed away.
I also know from reviewing countless police reports regarding traffic accidents that there are a good number of officers that just don't care about details. That is really neglectful considering their observations and documentation can often be the only objective view of fact that people like Insurance Adjusters, Attorneys, or even a Jury will get to see.
I recall vividly during a subrogation review being told by the panel that the police report presented insignificant evidence due to lack of accurate detail (the officer had an incorrect street name listed in the report, and the diagram indicated additional lanes that weren't physically present.) That sort of thing is a blatent disregard of duty in my opinion.
There are times I just wish the officer would have acted as if it were him, or someone he loved that were being victimized so that the officer would be as dilligent as possible in the investigation.
Even with all that said I can't help but to agree with ChopsJazz that policework is often underappreciated. It really is the classic catch-22 damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of position, but we need you all out there if we like it or not.
So here are my suggestions
1. Listen
2. Act as if it were you in the other persons shoes
3. be dilligent
but honestly- just do the best job you can, and do it in a way that you can feel proud of. That is all we can, or should ask.
Phil
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I never allow the police to tailgate me. I pull over to the side every time a officer tailgates me and that is every time an officer is behind me. take notice of how an officer tailgates as well. they are always running radar and tailgating way to the right so oncoming traffic can't see them. IMO that is why they tailgate.
It's got to be so tough to make that judgment call. No one really knows if the lesson is learned or not. Maybe the kid now understands that he could have lost control and hit another car injuring someone else, maybe he thinks he just got away, who knows? But I bet you won't forget the car and if he does it again a ticket will be the only way he learns.
I am surprised a Lexus can even do a burnout, LOL. Wouldn't he have to plan that and turn the traction control off?
My mother never let me drive her car and I don't blame her as the road out front of our house was BLACK with burnouts. :biggrin: To set the scene I grew up on a road that was 1.5 miles long and there were 3 houses on the road. We could play an entire basketball game before a single car came down the road. Today there is 150 houses on the road and I wouldn't dream of doing a burnout there now. However I did fid a huge parking lot in the midle of nowhere after I got my new Tundra:biggrin:
I think he did the kid right.
If it were me I would pull the father over in the future and say something like it looks like your rear tires are bald, the last time I saw this car some kid was doing a burnout in it. LOL!
:biggrin:
I'd like it even more if I was a fly on the wall at the dinner table that evening. :biggrin:
I'd like it even more if I was a fly on the wall at the dinner table that evening. :biggrin:
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