I'm expecting my Dali "street" anti-sways to come in tomorrow. I'm wondering what settings I should start with. I only use the car for the street, and I want a very "neutral" feeling but definately need to avoid an oversteer tendency if I ever decide to push the car a little bit hard. At the same time, I want a setting that is ideally effective enough to rule out most if not all of the lean during turns. Thanks.
Suggested Sway Settings
- Thread starter jerryho
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jerryho,
Dali places a mark on the setting hole for a balanced setup. The balance was Mark's best compromise based on many factors. If you set it up that way you will like it. I have for years
. You will have that "go kart" feel. Lowering an 1" is nice too.
HTH,
LarryB
Dali places a mark on the setting hole for a balanced setup. The balance was Mark's best compromise based on many factors. If you set it up that way you will like it. I have for years
. You will have that "go kart" feel. Lowering an 1" is nice too.HTH,
LarryB
That's a good one! I'm getting them in today and I'll look for those marks. :-D
the markings let you know the position of the oem holes... that way any "stiffness" you experience is solely based upon the extra diameter of the swaybar. use the markings as your baseline, that way you can dial in the front or rear according to your personal preferences.
but... like larry noted, you will probably be happy with them set the way mark "marked" them. i have the dali track bars on my car and haven't felt the need to adjust them from the oem settings.
but... like larry noted, you will probably be happy with them set the way mark "marked" them. i have the dali track bars on my car and haven't felt the need to adjust them from the oem settings.
Will they have some marks on the Comptech swaybar? I will get a set of Comptech soon and I want to follow Dali's mark if it did't already have one? Anyone have a clear pictures of the marks?
Thanks,
Thanks,
That doesn't come along with the bars does it?
If you have copies of last year's NSX Driver, you should look for the article by Mark W. on building a 400+ HP NSX. He has a nice section on why you don't want to lower the car more than a 1/2''. It seems that by lowering more than that, you disrupt a great many design elements in the car including center of gravity, air flow, suspension travel, suspension stress, and overall handling. All in a negetive way. It might look nice but that's about all it does.
Tank said:
Is there a way to get copies of these magazines or articles? I wonder how much lower the Type-R is from our NSX's? I believe that the Zanadri is 7/8 inch lower than a regular NSX. Did Honda screw that one up? I have my car lowered with Tein coilovers 1.2 inches in the front and 1 inch in the rear. I haven't noticed a negative effect at all. I will admit some speed bumps are off limits now. I would understand if your dropped it 2-3 inches that would help anything, but only a 1/2 inch?
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Try writing Justin Choi at [email protected], he's the co-editor of the magazine.
If you look at the lowering issue just from a logical point of view, a car that starts out with only about 4" of clearance doesn't have much room to go. Lowering 2" is a 50% reduction in the suspension rate and a 50% change in the suspension parts normal angle. That's a lot. Even for a 1" drop, that's a big change.
I just went through this with a friend's WRX. He lowered it to what looked like a great ride but his lap times increased rather noticably. He brought it back up and his times dropped.
Unless you're reworking the entire suspension of the car, I'd suggest leaving the height alone. Unless you just like the look.
I put the entire Zanardi suspension parts list on my 94 and it lowered the car about a 1/2" and increased the drivability by a huge margin. But these are all OEM parts designed to work that way.
If you look at the lowering issue just from a logical point of view, a car that starts out with only about 4" of clearance doesn't have much room to go. Lowering 2" is a 50% reduction in the suspension rate and a 50% change in the suspension parts normal angle. That's a lot. Even for a 1" drop, that's a big change.
I just went through this with a friend's WRX. He lowered it to what looked like a great ride but his lap times increased rather noticably. He brought it back up and his times dropped.
Unless you're reworking the entire suspension of the car, I'd suggest leaving the height alone. Unless you just like the look.
I put the entire Zanardi suspension parts list on my 94 and it lowered the car about a 1/2" and increased the drivability by a huge margin. But these are all OEM parts designed to work that way.
I have the Dali sway bars, but have no marks on them. Can anyone actually explain what tightens or loosens the front/rear? I would like to try and actually "tune in" a setting that I like.
The outside holes are the "softest", so mounting one more hole to the inside (the middle of the bar) makes it stiffer. As far as I can remember with my Dali street bars Mark's "marks" were at the 2nd or 3rd from the outside. At my track bars I have mounted it at the 2nd hole from the outside both front and rear - good compromise for dry and wet track.
My suggestion: Start with the same settings front and rear. If you want more understeer make the front one hole stiffer, if you prefer more oversteer do that with your rear bar. If it's not enough take the next hole to the inside.
My suggestion: Start with the same settings front and rear. If you want more understeer make the front one hole stiffer, if you prefer more oversteer do that with your rear bar. If it's not enough take the next hole to the inside.
Juice,
The stiffer end of the car will have less grip, so if you tighten the rear bar you will dial in more oversteer. The bar is tightened by moving the link to a hole further in towards the bend in the bar.
So for example if you are on the middle hole (I recall there are three?) moving the rear bar mount towards the bend (or rear of the car will stiffen it, and give you more oversteer. IF you move the link to the end hole in the bar you will get less oversteer, more understeer.
HTH,
LarryB
The stiffer end of the car will have less grip, so if you tighten the rear bar you will dial in more oversteer. The bar is tightened by moving the link to a hole further in towards the bend in the bar.
So for example if you are on the middle hole (I recall there are three?) moving the rear bar mount towards the bend (or rear of the car will stiffen it, and give you more oversteer. IF you move the link to the end hole in the bar you will get less oversteer, more understeer.
HTH,
LarryB
Larry,
Very well explained. Will have to remember to print this when I install mine. Gotta order them first though. Well, gotta get my car back too.
Very well explained. Will have to remember to print this when I install mine. Gotta order them first though. Well, gotta get my car back too.
Thanks guys!
Amazing. That is the first time anyone has ever actually explained how to adjust these things to me. Well, back to the underside of the ride.
Amazing. That is the first time anyone has ever actually explained how to adjust these things to me. Well, back to the underside of the ride.
Tank said:
I don't believe that one bit. I have Comptech pro suspension and my car is lowered that even the aluminum race jack can't fit. And I turn faster and faster lap time.
Andrie Hartanto said:
Thank You!
I can't go any lower than stock height due to inability of being able to drive up the driveway. 
Andrie Hartanto said:
Not to belabor the point but pretty soon here we're comparing apples and oranges. Part of my quote was left out from the discussion of lowering, which was "unless you're reworking the entire suspension." A simple lowering will not work to your advantage. The Comptech pro package I'm sure addresses many concerns that a simple lowering doesn't.
The other thing to consider is: How much are you asking of the suspension? By getting the car that low, you're limiting the travel quite a bit and closing off adjustment options and the car's ability to weight-transfer. Maybe you make up on the straights what you loose in the corners.
Did you baseline the car before lowering it? Being faster and faster only counts if you know what you're faster than. That's why you never change more than one thing at a time and always make sure you have max'ed out the performance before moving on to the next thing.
At any rate, none of this really matters. If you like it, and feel you're doing great, then that's all that counts.
Have fun!
t
now i'm curious....
tein RA... lower about 1"
I'll have the 16/17 oem rims,
that's lowering a lil bit.. guess that just accounts for travel.. not everything else that the suspension was designed to do.
is it safe to say that doin this would be bad???? Or are the tein's enough?
thanks,
-x-
Man.. working this car is far different from a 1320 drag civic..
tein RA... lower about 1"
I'll have the 16/17 oem rims,
that's lowering a lil bit.. guess that just accounts for travel.. not everything else that the suspension was designed to do.
is it safe to say that doin this would be bad???? Or are the tein's enough?
thanks,
-x-
Man.. working this car is far different from a 1320 drag civic..
Bumpsteer
Lowering the car more than an inch wreaks havoc on the bumpsteer characteristics of the car. Not having seen the article being referred to, I have to believe thats what Mark was alluding to. And thats a fact. You start getting alignment changes during suspension compression when you have the car lowered anymore than that, not a desireable trait on a track car.
While you might be faster if you lower the car more, thats more than likely due to several other factors, which may include improving driver skill, stickier tires, or spring rates that are eliminating suspension compression among others..
Lowering the car more than an inch wreaks havoc on the bumpsteer characteristics of the car. Not having seen the article being referred to, I have to believe thats what Mark was alluding to. And thats a fact. You start getting alignment changes during suspension compression when you have the car lowered anymore than that, not a desireable trait on a track car.
While you might be faster if you lower the car more, thats more than likely due to several other factors, which may include improving driver skill, stickier tires, or spring rates that are eliminating suspension compression among others..
This is what Mark Weinberg wrote last year in NSXDriver:
"After extensive discussions with many members of the NSX community, it was concluded that an aftermarket lowering kit, while popular with the street scene, actually hurt the high-speed characteristics of the car. Once the car is lowered more than about an inch from stock, the car's sophisticated suspension geometry is shot. Most noticable is the excessive amount of rear negetive camber, which can no longer be dialed out on an alignment rack. However, the real problem is that the overall suspension geometry is altered in a way not comtemplated by the original engineering team."
And for added perspective, he added: "There are two things I keep telling myself about my NSX. First, it's not a racecar. It was never meant to be a racecar. .... It's all about balance."
My experience in autox - where suspension is everything - has been to watch folks lower their cars beyond what a good set a springs and shocks would do and then drop out of competition because the suspension stopped working.
It is all about balance.
"After extensive discussions with many members of the NSX community, it was concluded that an aftermarket lowering kit, while popular with the street scene, actually hurt the high-speed characteristics of the car. Once the car is lowered more than about an inch from stock, the car's sophisticated suspension geometry is shot. Most noticable is the excessive amount of rear negetive camber, which can no longer be dialed out on an alignment rack. However, the real problem is that the overall suspension geometry is altered in a way not comtemplated by the original engineering team."
And for added perspective, he added: "There are two things I keep telling myself about my NSX. First, it's not a racecar. It was never meant to be a racecar. .... It's all about balance."
My experience in autox - where suspension is everything - has been to watch folks lower their cars beyond what a good set a springs and shocks would do and then drop out of competition because the suspension stopped working.
It is all about balance.
Brian, you give a good reasoning on bumpsteer. However, I have not feel that affecting the car at all so far. Even a few pro driver that helped me setup the supsension didn't feel it either.
I've done very extensive testing with different setup. I take notes meticulously. I have a lot of track experience to the tune about 30-50 track days in a year. Those do not include my kart-ing time. I think I can differentiate between driving skills and what the car actually do.
A lot of people talked too much about suspension geometry that they know very little about. None talk about motion ratio which impacted most on springs and shocks selection. I'm sorry to sound a bit harsh, but some people give comments without testing and no documented results. Which I think has no value whatsoever.
My recommendation is to do testing and more testing. Your result maybe different than mine due to different factor and circumstances. However, faster lap time is faster lap time, which is the ultimate goal.
See you all in NSXPO 2003!
Oops, this is Andrie Hartanto, using friend's computer, thus the user name.
I've done very extensive testing with different setup. I take notes meticulously. I have a lot of track experience to the tune about 30-50 track days in a year. Those do not include my kart-ing time. I think I can differentiate between driving skills and what the car actually do.
A lot of people talked too much about suspension geometry that they know very little about. None talk about motion ratio which impacted most on springs and shocks selection. I'm sorry to sound a bit harsh, but some people give comments without testing and no documented results. Which I think has no value whatsoever.
My recommendation is to do testing and more testing. Your result maybe different than mine due to different factor and circumstances. However, faster lap time is faster lap time, which is the ultimate goal.
See you all in NSXPO 2003!
Oops, this is Andrie Hartanto, using friend's computer, thus the user name.
ryans said:
Since I seem to have the misfortune to have started this discussion about lowering, I'm bowing out at his point. It has gone way beyond my knowledge base.
At the top of this I was simply calling attention to an article in NSXDriver that touched on lowering. My point was to have folks think twice about doing a simple lowering kit without a total reworking of the entire suspension. In my clumsy way I was trying to point out the difference in a full-on racing set-up and a more reasonable "street" set-up (that wouldn't have that much lowering) but would still be good for a daily drive as well as a causal weekend tracker without screwing up your car.
My apologies to anyone that took offense or thought I was talking beyond my expertise. I didn't mean to have it come out that way.
At the top of this I was simply calling attention to an article in NSXDriver that touched on lowering. My point was to have folks think twice about doing a simple lowering kit without a total reworking of the entire suspension. In my clumsy way I was trying to point out the difference in a full-on racing set-up and a more reasonable "street" set-up (that wouldn't have that much lowering) but would still be good for a daily drive as well as a causal weekend tracker without screwing up your car.
My apologies to anyone that took offense or thought I was talking beyond my expertise. I didn't mean to have it come out that way.
Brian Bailey said:
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