Stoptech big brake kit

[DanO]

In any condition, if the rears lock up before the fronts, you've got a problem. I was meaning that most would rather spin on a dry track then a wet one.

Now I see what you ment . Yes, the result of too much rear bias is better experienced in the dry!

I then installed Tilton lever type bias valve on the front and that creates whole new problem. The lever is so inconsitent to each other my car will pull to one side all the time.

I would think that the Tilton lever would work horribly as a front biasing device because it keeps the ratio 1:1 up to a certain threshold and then starts to bias. The threshold and bias ratio are fixed and both get more aggressive (and more abrupt) as you move the lever. So when the threshold pressure is crossed, braking force at the front would be abruptly attenuated and I bet it sucked. This is the setup that I use, but I bias the rears, and adjust it so that I can’t feel it when the threshold is met (if I can feel it then I need to dial in more rear).

It is hard to explain about the front brake only upgrade. What I felt was the front was locking up, the ABS is too intrusive, and the car end up hard to control because it upset the balance so much.

Because of your driving skill and style you obviously take the brakes to a limit where a rear upgrade is necessary. I bet very few of us ever get to that point! I did the rears just for fun, not because I really need them!

DanO

 

[DanO]

What about trail-braking? Will that be disouraged practice for novice at NSXPO?

Done right trail-braking is the secret to a fast and smooth corner, done wrong, is the secret to a balled up NSX. Each corner is different so each corner requires a different amount of yaw setup. In my limited experience, I’d say trailing the brakes has lots more to do with getting the car turned than about slowing it down.

For novices, I’d follow Steve Dinan’s advice as he gave it during a lecture at NSXPO 00, Laguna Seca (paraphrased from memory): For street cars, come off the throttle before the brake markers and let the engine and wind slow you down a bit. Then get into the brakes and heel-toe so that the engine does about 20% braking (this is all to conserve brakes and be smooth). Don’t try to consciously trail brake, it will come naturally as you get more seat time. Steve then went on about a time when he was leading the race and his crew told him to start short shifting and to take it easy so that the car would last, and as he did it, his driving got more smooth and his lap times went down! Anyway, sorry about getting Off-topic.

DanO

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

Steve Dinan's advice is very sound. I didn't learn trail braking conciously. Until one day I noticed I started to trail brake on certain corners.

DanO,

The Tilton lever type work horribly not only for the reason you stated. But also the fact that none of their bias valve are equal on every notch. For example, the bias on the left and right will be different even if the lever at the same level. I went through 3 different set to no success. Even talked to Tilton, and they admit that it won't be the same everytime. That's why I went with the knob style.

Try to put a pressure gauge on each side and you'll see what I mean.

As far as driving skill, some of you are too humble. I've seen a lot of fast guys, and I bet you are one of them too. I just hapen to be one of the most opiniated guy

Shawn,

I did went to almost every option. I did try the pads by accident. I was late and end up with street porsche pads up front and carbotech P+ rear and was surprised by the result. I am using Panther P+ front and XP rear.

Erik drove my car with same carbotech P+ pads front to rear, and that was his suggestion. I had to use this pads because this is what I have laying around at that time.

You're right, Porsche didn't have NSX in mind. But their static balance is almost the same. And they use the same piston size as brembo kit for NSX.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

By the way, did you notice that the ALM cars were taking early apexes on most turns at Infineon Raceway .....

I've been telling you guys that you been taking waaay too late apex!

 

[kenjiMR]

Steve Dinan's advice is very sound. I didn't learn trail braking conciously. Until one day I noticed I started to trail brake on certain corners.

I think I can relate to this too. I really havn't really seriously practiced trail-braking in the NSX on a racetrack, but I noticed myself doing it without thinking at the local indoor karting track. I think concentrating on smoothness and other basics which I need to improve will definitely come first.

 

[stoptechinfo]

I would like to chime in with my $0.02 on a couple of the points being discussed on this thread.

A front big brake kit will get the most bang for the buck; a rear kit is only needed if you are fading the rear brakes. This is assuming that the front only kit has the correct bias built into it.

DanO: I agree with everything you have stated in this thread with one exception: A biasing valve is NOT needed with a rear kit if the calipers and brake torque is sized correctly. Although the best brake performance is a race setup using dual-master cyliders with a balance bar. This allows the driver to adjust for the track conditions on a minute by minute basis. The StopTech 4 wheel kit will be safely balanced right out of the box

Andrie: I'm sorry to say, but the 36-40 is too front biased and limiting the front reaction with a valve is very difficult, bordering on dangerous. You may want to try a pad with very low friction in the front to help, maybe PFC 97 or Pagid 4-2-1. I would suggest dropping the biasing valve and increasing the rear caliper piston size if possible or perhaps cross-drilling your rear rotors to get more bite.

I couldn't be more pleased with the NSX community and the participants on this forum. You all "get it." Bigger is not always better. Its all about balance and finesse.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

Andrie: I'm sorry to say, but the 36-40 is too front biased and limiting the front reaction with a valve is very difficult, bordering on dangerous. You may want to try a pad with very low friction in the front to help, maybe PFC 97 or Pagid 4-2-1. I would suggest dropping the biasing valve and increasing the rear caliper piston size if possible or perhaps cross-drilling your rear rotors to get more bite.

Yep, I found that out after I install it. I did drop the front bias valve. I'm playing with pads compound now. I do have bigger rotors in the rear, but using stock caliper. This help a little but not enough as I mentioned before.

What is the piston size on the stoptech?

BTW, when will you guys have the replacement stock rotors for the NSX and ITR back in stock?

 

[stoptechinfo]

We try not to divulge our piston sizes, but I will tell you this: they are smaller than 36-40 but larger than 30-34.

We will have the two-piece NSX and ITR rotors back in stock by the end of the year. I know that doesn't help much, but I'm not involved in that project. We should have the replacement rotors soon, but the complete kits will be a month later. We will also be adding new applications to this product line of two-piece stock replacement kits.

Andrie, what is the diameter of the SoS rear rotor??

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

We will have the two-piece NSX and ITR rotors back in stock by the end of the year. I know that doesn't help much, but I'm not involved in that project. We should have the replacement rotors soon, but the complete kits will be a month later. We will also be adding new applications to this product line of two-piece stock replacement kits.

Yeah, I've been waiting for one for a while. My civic race car need new rotors. We can wither use the ITR replacement or the NSX replacemetn, but we need it fast. Any of your distributor still has this rotors in stock by any chance?

Andrie, what is the diameter of the SoS rear rotor??

hey, that info is gonna cost ya I need the two piece rotors mentioned above. Get going will ya?

It is 13"

 

[stoptechinfo]

Andrie,
Feel free to call me about the ITR rotors. I may have some replacements for you.

 

[whiteNSXs]

So is Stoptech going to make a REAR big rotor/stock caliper kit? Count me in!!! I will be the first to buy along with the front kit.
Steve

 

[NSX2play]

We will have the two-piece NSX and ITR rotors back in stock by the end of the year....We should have the replacement rotors soon, but the complete kits will be a month later.

Yea. Finally. I thought they were discontinued

I 'get it' too and the OEM sized StopTech two piece rotor is light and sheds heat like crazy while letting me using those inexpensive high performance tires!

Who needs 17" tires anyway? NSXs add lightness, not inches.