spring recommendations please

[TURBO2GO]

So I am, believe it or not, inching closer to installing my KW competitions. Ti Dave made me all the adaptors I needed, and Ravi is making me a front lift VRH system so I can be a little lower than stock and have my bumper survive.

But to do this, Ravi has said that he will need to convert the units to monoballs and install new springs. I think he said swift.

So I am thinking of going with softer springs for a car that is a weekend street car that sees some small amount of track time. With the horrible roads in New England, I am not sure I want something too harsh.

My current springs according to Billy are:

Front = 1,256 lbs
Rear = 971 lbs

This is pretty darn stiff, and it is how this suspension came from Honda's own development team running their NSX-R on the Nurburgring.

I am using a Type R front sway bar and my factory 05 rear bar which is the same as a Zanardi. Factory 17" 05 wheels all around and Dunlop SS-Z1's all around. Following Billy's recommendations on suspension setup. I just need to figure out what to do with springs.

What do you guys think? what would you go with yourself?

 

[nsxnut]

I don't think your spring rates are nearly as stiff as you think.

I have the Comptech Pro suspension with 1200 ft and 800 rear.
They are Very stiff. There normal setup from Copmtech is 1000/600 the stiffer springs work better with Hoosiers.
This is a Track car and is Brutal on the street.

See this link from Dali

http://www.daliracing.com/v6665/catalog/suspension/more_springs_matrix.cfm

 

[TURBO2GO]

I don't think your spring rates are nearly as stiff as you think.

I have the Comptech Pro suspension with 1200 ft and 800 rear.
They are Very stiff. There normal setup from Copmtech is 1000/600 the stiffer springs work better with Hoosiers.
This is a Track car and is Brutal on the street.

See this link from Dali

http://www.daliracing.com/v6665/catalog/suspension/more_springs_matrix.cfm

Am I missing something? you just said the 1000/800 is "brutal" on the street. And mine are 1256/971, which is stiffer than your "brutal" ones. And you are saying they are not as stiff as I think?

Also your link seems to be dead.

 

[CL65 Captain]

Dave,

I have been all over the place with springs both with my Comptech Pro and my JRZs. I can say that the damper makes all the difference in the world. As well, the tire you run will also somewhat determine how much spring you need (as well as the track condition).

I am running 600/500 with Dunlop Z1 SS and the ride is firm but not jarring at all. In fact, my favorite on the track when I was running NT01s was 1000/800 and the ride wasn't too bad. On normal streets it was stiff but a totally acceptable ride but when you hit a big bump it would give you a sharp little jolt. Going the other way, I ran 450/350 and the street ride was more or less the same as the 600/500 so I went back to the later.

I keep toying with the idea of going back stiffer, but the thought of having to swap the springs again is more of a deterrent than the ride.

 

[nsxnut]

Am I missing something? you just said the 1000/800 is "brutal" on the street. And mine are 1256/971, which is stiffer than your "brutal" ones. And you are saying they are not as stiff as I think?

Also your link seems to be dead.

I don't think what you have is as stiff as you think.
but I could be wrong.

1995 nsx/r 447/319
1997 nsx/r 363/279

I live in Northern California our roads suck. If I didn't have such a short commute and an alternate car I would probably not have as stiff springs as I do.

Later,
Don

 

[CL65 Captain]

I don't think what you have is as stiff as you think.
but I could be wrong.

1995 nsx/r 447/319
1997 nsx/r 363/279

I live in Northern California our roads suck. If I didn't have such a short commute and an alternate car I would probably not have as stiff springs as I do.

Later,
Don

Don,

He's referring to the springs that came with his KW 3-way pros. They were run on the NSX-R race car that ran Nurburgrubg with slicks - not the NSX Type R production street car.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I think that's the car...

But now I am even more confused as to what to do... LOL...

Northern CA roads are a DREAM compared to what I have here around Boston.

 

[nsxnut]

Don,

He's referring to the springs that came with his KW 3-way pros. They were run on the NSX-R race car that ran Nurburgrubg with slicks - not the NSX Type R production street car.

Ok. Didn't see correct.

 

[nsxnut]

I think that's the car...

But now I am even more confused as to what to do... LOL...

Northern CA roads are a DREAM compared to what I have here around Boston.

Some of our roads are bad. If I had a long commute on the 101 I may consider softer springs?
I don't and am willing to put up with this on the street for the track. I also have a second car. I am more tolerant than some.

The stiffer springs on the track are wonderful.
I started off with the 1000-/600 and after using Hoosiers went to the stiffer 1200/800 springs. I like the stiffer spring on the track. Not as much body roll.


There was little if no difference between the 1000/600 and the 1200/800 on the street.

 

[TURBO2GO]

There was little if no difference between the 1000/600 and the 1200/800 on the street.

Right... both are brutal, right? LOL...

 

[nsxnut]

Right... both are brutal, right? LOL...

I am very tolerant and also have a short commute. I will live with it.
Some may not. My priority is for the track. I go frequently.

You already have them... Correct? Install them and give it a try.

Later,
Don

 

[CL65 Captain]

Right... both are brutal, right? LOL...

Dave, the KW 3-way is going to be smoother than the Koni 3012 even with the same springs - you have the advantage of a large rod diameter and external reservoir with the 3-way.

That being said, if you are planning on sticking with street tires, then going with a high spring rate 1000+ doesn't make sense.

So... you can go soft - 400ish. Medium - 600ish or Stiff - 800ish. No matter what you do, it's not going to be as soft as OEM - as the OEM is pretty damn soft - 196/224 (97 T). As far as matching the rear rate up with the front - ask Billy.

PS: Springs aren't expensive ($150 /pr) and if you learn to pull and replace the dampers - not that hard, you can change them.

 

[TURBO2GO]

So it's slicks that like these high rates? I don't think I will be going with slicks anytime soon, my driving ability is just not that good yet. I think I need more seat time before I go that route... and I don't want to worry about oil too..

Yeah I am kind of waiting to see if Billy will chime in here.

 

[docjohn]

brutal is very subjective,why don't you come to kids day and get a ride in Petes car with the 1200/800 pro susp.

 

[CL65 Captain]

brutal is very subjective,why don't you come to kids day and get a ride in Petes car with the 1200/800 pro susp.

Agree. I didn't think 1000/800 was bad for me. BUT make sure you take a ride out on the streets.... tracks don't have highway seams and bumps.

 

[CL65 Captain]

So it's slicks that like these high rates?

Yes. I simplistic terms, high grip means the car want's to lean more before they start to slide, thus the need for higher spring rates.

Think about it.... if the car is going around the corner and the outside wheel is actually on a rail like a train then the car would want to roll over to the outside. If you had HUGE springs then it would help delay that. Bad example, but if you think about it, you'll get the gist.

 

[Coz]

How do you like the Comptech Pro's ?, considering switching to them.

Dave,

I have been all over the place with springs both with my Comptech Pro and my JRZs.

 

[CL65 Captain]

How do you like the Comptech Pro's ?, considering switching to them.

The Koni 3012 damper used is a great damper, but it is also 20+ year old design. The main problem I had, and why I got rid of them, was in order to change the compression setting you had to remove the damper from the car, press a button and turn the shaft rod and then reinstall. I don't know about you, but I'm not up for RR my dampers at the track every time I want to make an adjustment for compression.

My JRZs stay on the car. Rebound on the top, and I can reach the compression adjustment on the bottom if I jack up the car and slide underneath. It makes it easier to reach if I pull the wheel, but I can reach without doing that.

If I were you, I would go JRZ, Moton or KW.

 

[Coz]

Thank you for the insight and advice Captain.

Nope, me either....I like keeping it as simple as possible for track adjustments as well.

Would love to go the JRZ or Moton route, but they are big $$$$.

Might try the KW's next but I don't see much of a change from KW to the K-sports I'm currently using and probably not worth making a change to go straight across in performance.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Coz, I think Jim meant the KW competitions, not the V3's. They do make NSX specific kits and are what you'd compare the 3-way Motons to.

 

[stuntman]

In all of this spring rate discussion, don't forget the swaybars are just as important in terms of the overall package you are referring to as the springs themselves.

Go with a big bar and then you can get away with relatively softer springs (better ride quality) and same roll stiffness as just a high spring rate/soft (or stock) swaybar.

0.02


Jim - you're killing me! You need to learn how to properly quote text

 

[Coz]

Ahhh.....

Coz, I think Jim meant the KW competitions, not the V3's. They do make NSX specific kits and are what you'd compare the 3-way Motons to.

 

[Coz]

LOL, nothing has changed brother...LOL
You know how I like to bug you

Jim - you're killing me! You need to learn how to properly quote text

 

[TURBO2GO]

In all of this spring rate discussion, don't forget the swaybars are just as important in terms of the overall package you are referring to as the springs themselves.

Go with a big bar and then you can get away with relatively softer springs (better ride quality) and same roll stiffness as just a high spring rate/soft (or stock) swaybar.

0.02


Jim - you're killing me! You need to learn how to properly quote text

That's what I what I was wondering... that some of the "sway" can be taken out with thicker bars, but I think Captain is running Dali's?

So what do you think Billy? any suggestions for me since I have to get new ones anyway?

 

[stuntman]

That's what I what I was wondering... that some of the "sway" can be taken out with thicker bars, but I think Captain is running Dali's?

So what do you think Billy? any suggestions for me since I have to get new ones anyway?

Bars or springs?

I'm still waiting on measurements of the stock swaybar...