This is one of the best threads I've seen on Prime in months.
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Spoon Headers???
- Thread starter takoryder
- Start date
Two sites that you can use are:
http://japamart.com/
https://www.japanauctioncenter.com/index.php
Its going to be close getting funding within the time limit. I'd help you out Ross but you know about my current situation. Not enough funding in my account!
- Joined
- 19 February 2008
- Messages
- 1,532
I have a g in my paypal... can I transfer it to you?
Definitely a good discussion!
Plugging numbers in formulas will only get you so far as greenberet has said. Once you get a baseline starting point for a race vehicle, the fine geometry tuning is done spending many hours and dollars on a dyno.
I'm sure the Burns marketing group will say their software is the best because of all the stuff in it :tongue: But really, while it's fine for weekend racers and semi-pro teams, real motorsports professionals use their own expertise.
This is a good discussion and hopefully has enlightened some folks on basic header design. The main thing to take away is that unless you have an active intake and exhaust system (variable-length intake runners, variable length exhaust manifolds), a particular setup can either be tuned for extreme power over a limited RPM band, or just decent power over a wider RPM band.
One fixed design is not necessarily best or what everyone wants :smile:
Dave
The Fujitsubo was not the most expensive, it is the GT-1 F1 header (save the inconel ones), currently $3500. The Fujitsubo, like every other header available, does not use true equal length pipes on all 6 cylinders, the GT-1 does. I don't think saying Fujitsubo had the "best approach" to be inaccurate.
On GT-Rom's website:
"After extensive tests of finished exhausts the angle of the junction port was tested at 12, 14, and 16 degrees. The best increase in torque was from 14 degrees. And that is what helps separate this awesome piece of machinery from less tested "competition"."
Still, I am considering selling mine and going with Cody since I am now FI. I feel the GT-1 to be THE best NA header on the market.
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Fuji is ~$3300, GT-1 ~$3500. Both are a waste IMO when you can get 95% of their performance for 50% of their cost.
It's been proven that you don't need equal length pipes if you account for this with other parameters.
The GT-1 is a long-tube header, geared for more lower end performance than the shorter Fuji.
Please, there is no "best" design out there other than an active system - which no one has.
Dave
So which aftermarket header do you think has accounted for that? All else being equal I think the preference is equal length pipes.
Assuming you are not on a race team, I would take the Cantrells with equal length primaries and a larger collector than the other brands, or if I was FI woudl consider the lovefab as those look promising for FI applications.
Cantrells don't have equal length primaries. It's a play on words. True "equal length" means equal length on all cylinders not just one bank of cylinders. The pipe lengths on one bank are vastly different than the other bank.
OK valid point, however for the money, assuming I was NA, I would still go that route, money no object then probably the GT-1. If I was FI would probably look at the lovefabs.
You're exactly right - ideally everything would be equal length (each pipe going from each exhaust port to a common collector, not just on one bank but each bank).
But in the real world on the street, small differences won't be noticeable. The differences in your individual fuel injector flow rates or intake manifold airflow delivery to each cylinder is the order of magnitude effect you would see for a small inconsistency in primary length. :wink:
Dave
Well we are talking headers and what makes a good design... you are right, how much difference true equal length makes depends on other parameters. My car gained 112 HP on the same dyno after a CTSC and GT-1 header and exhaust installation. Nothing else was changed. That is a very high gain for a standard autorotor. I have posted that chart. I attribute at least some of this gain to the exhaust. Unfortunately I did not do the exhaust seperately. I can tell you the build quality of the GT-1 is phenomenal. It really is a work of art, and I can understand why they charge so much for it. Whether it is worth $3500 or not is of course a matter of opinion. I just wanted to get the best available at the time, and this was it. I almost hate to sell it, as I looked at it the other day and still the way it fits and looks is perfect. I'm just considering going with Cody's because I am FI and staying that way. I also want to go ti.
That is a nice gain! There's no arguing it's a very nice setup with excellent quality.
Dave
Here's the response I got back from Burns:
Burns Stainless said:
Burns Stainless said:
Take that for what it's worth.
I would love love love to see Cody fab up a Ti FI header.
This thread is great reading, thanks to everyone for chiming in!
From my novice understanding, FI and NA applications are different so for those of us with a late model NSX running a pretty stock motor, what is the best header option?
Cody, could you customize something for me that would allow me to bolt onto my GT-One 5.1 exhaust and maybe employ some high flow cats?
From my novice understanding, FI and NA applications are different so for those of us with a late model NSX running a pretty stock motor, what is the best header option?
Cody, could you customize something for me that would allow me to bolt onto my GT-One 5.1 exhaust and maybe employ some high flow cats?
He's still around, he's building a car for Pikes Peak. S4Play I would PM him, if you want to get his opinion as he might not check all the threads.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159843&highlight=Pike
