Slowly going back to stock

[Hasdrubal]

I got my car back in 2007, and quickly made a very mature declaration that I intended to keep my car in as close to stock condition as possible. Even posted here about it. It had a front BBK, aftermarket wheels, and that was about it. I got the car while on leave from Iraq, and that declaration lasted about as long as it took me to get home. Supercharger, carbon vented hood, first a type-R replica wing and then a big GT wing, and a Racing Brake caliper relocation kit for the rear.

Now, I look at my car and I feel like an old man. The hood doesn't look cool anymore, especially since I never got around to painting it. The wing still looks cool, but as the years go by and my chances to hit the track keep slipping away, I no longer see the point. And the engineer in me cries out for aerodynamic balance that will never be achieved without sealing the front undertray and adding a big, curb scraping splitter. The supercharger... that's going to stay. I'm not _that_ old yet. Wish I could keep the BBK, though, but when I pulled the calipers off last night there was enough corrosion that large flakes of aluminum were just falling off. Never seen anything like it, but glad I did before something ruptured at speed.

Still, as the flashy pieces come off the car, I find I actually like it more. It looks more elegant, more refined, and more authentic. I no longer feel the need to change things for the teenager's need to show that "this one is mine," because really, who am I trying to prove anything to? Anyone else go through this progression?

 

[latzke]

If you want to get rid of flashy and happen to have OEM 2002+ wheels, I'll trade you straight up for my OEM 5 spokes.

Similar reasons (getting old?) I went from aftermarket exhaust back to OEM. The relative quiet, absence of head aches on long drives, etc is great. Also never getting rid of the supercharger.

 

[Wavey1]

Gone through it enough that I don't even start down that path any more. Tasteful and purposeful mods only, and never do anything that isn't reversable. And the SC sounds like it fits right in ;>

 

[Hasdrubal]

Sorry, latzke, in the course of five years of driving, I bent one set of forgelines, replaced it with another, and then had to replace those when I found a crack through one of the wheel spokes. Think it was related to vibration from worn Brembo rotors. I just finished swapping over to a set of Enkei PF01, which looks better than the last set (which someone had powdercoated only the spokes dark grey).

Bad timing on my part, but I wanted the car back on the road. I don't know if you've seen this thread;

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...ake-forged-02-replicas-in-17-18-stagger/page7

Would have been perfect, at least if it happens.

 

[latzke]

I don't know if you've seen this thread

I had not. Thanks for the pointer.

 

[Coconut]

FUNCTION (FI, BBK, good suspension) never goes out of style.

 

[tof]

So far I have removed from the car an aftermarket "race" tow hook, Type R style wing, and fake Mugen shift knob. I replaced the knob with a countersunk J's for function. Went from a Dali "Gruppe N" exhaust to a 1G Comptech to OEM. I would love to replace the center console with its CF overlay with an OEM one but the double-din audio/nav would be a problem and I'm not getting rid of that.

I prefer the look and feel of the oem NSX over one that is modified. Well, except I am a sucker for engine bay bling. So it now has polished coolant tank, a and b wire covers, alternator pulley cover, injector covers, fuse box cover, and DC Sports strut brace. But I am thinking of toning all those polished bits down with a satin wheel clear coat from Duplicolor. Been looking for a way to achieve a chem-tone finish and this is probably the easiest and least expensive solution.

Oh, and I do enjoy the Mugen pedal pads, yo.

 

[Hasdrubal]

After a few days of driving with the front BBK removed, I'm not convinced it actually helped braking that much. The brake balance was so different from stock that I think the rears really weren't doing anything until the fronts started to lock, which was almost never. Probably going to look for one of the Racing Brake caliper relocation kits for the front now, though. Looks kind of silly with the size mis-match front to rear.

 

[Ponyboy]

I totally get this. I find myself eschewing the '02 conversion and r wing for the stockish look.

Although I don't think I could ever get rid of the engine, suspendo, and bbk. Stock look with some nice wheels. Most anything else is just gilding the lilly.

 

[tof]

Ah, the wheels. The ugly 94-2001 chrome rims with a good bit of rash and oxidation that came on my car had to go. Eventually I found an immaculate set of polished rims of the same type and they look great on the car., They give the NSX a style that, while exotic, fits in especially well when I drop in on the muscle/antique gatherings that go on here regularly. I am in the process of refinishing the chrome set in bronze. We'll see how that works out. I would love to go wide wide deep dish or concave but the manual steering is a good reason to stay with stock width in front and the desire for balance dictates staying close to stock in back as well..

 

[brettowen]

I totally get it. The NSX is one of those rare cars that is soooooo good right out of the box. I bought a set of '02-'05 wheels and a second hand Comptech gen 1 exhaust for my '91 and called it good. Dollar for dollar, those are easiest performance/appearance upgrades and easiest to reverse should I ever want to. I'll just keep the OEM parts in the unlikely event that will ever happen. I'm a 'less is more' kind of guy so tacking a bunch of stuff on like wings, skirts etc just isn't my bag. This is one car they got right from the start.

 

[Lostbuckeye]

+1 Brett. Honda engineers got this car right and built it to perform a certain way but it did have some weaknesses. I have nothing against SC or turbo except the cost. The NSX always did need a little more HP. I think simple mods that enhance the NSX's performance without changing the look or the balance of the car are a good thing. Too many people make wheel and suspension changes that ruin the designed handling characteristics. On mine, stock OEM wheels, a good after market exhaust(not too loud), Bilstein shocks at the lower setting, OEM NSX-R chassis stiffening kit, a short shift kit and a good clear bra are enough and the car still has its stock look.

 

[Hasdrubal]

I'm torn on the type-R wing. It doesn't quite flow with the lines of the car, but at the same time, it's sort of a factory part. I like pretty much everything about the authentic type-R, and the wing in particular seems like a good accent to the rear of the car, like the wing on a 911 turbo. The only problem with it is that of course, my car isn't an authentic type-R. Does having one make you look like a poser, or an enthusiast?

On the practical side, it's light enough that the trunk lid doesn't hit me in the head when I'm trying to unload the car. Maybe that's the more important point.

 

[robbiedawg]

i never really went away from stock.my feeling is that if you have a car that some very talented engineers put a lot of thought into,you shouldn't make changes lightly.not to say you shouldn't do it,it's your car,but i want to make sure it doesn't mess up what they carefully designed.i have just started thinking about wheels,and have a thread right now on the tire and wheel forum to get a comfort level that a set of light high quality forged ones like volks would not adversely affect the handling and performance of the car. i don't just want to slap them on because they look good.i'm pondering a Comptech gen II exhaust,which seems the most oem-like of the aftermarket exhausts.i did a few very small but satisfying cosmetic changes-the sos carbon fiber gauge trim and the red-stitched shift knob. my usage of the car also i believe matches what it was designed for-a quick,great-handling but still usable and comfortable street car.if you're mostly tracking it,then mods are much more indicated.

 

[NRG]

yeah, as I get older, I regret some of the mods that I did in the past such carbon engine hood, etc. Luckily, I didn't spend too much on mod.

No more Fast and Furious look. Keep it simple such as lowering and nice rims...and that should be good enough.

I find a simple lowered NSX more beautiful than a NSX with big fat wing on the back, difuser, etc (aka Fast and Furious).

As NSX becomes more affordable for the high school kids, they'll convert it to Fast and Furious crowd.

And when it's time to sell the car, those aftermarket parts lose about 75% of it's price. Besides, most buyers prefer stock condition.

 

[luigib]

yeah, as I get older, I regret some of the mods that I did in the past such carbon engine hood, etc. Luckily, I didn't spend too much on mod.

No more Fast and Furious look. Keep it simple such as lowering and nice rims...and that should be good enough.

I find a simple lowered NSX more beautiful than a NSX with big fat wing on the back, difuser, etc (aka Fast and Furious).

As NSX becomes more affordable for the high school kids, they'll convert it to Fast and Furious crowd.

And when it's time to sell the car, those aftermarket parts lose about 75% of it's price. Besides, most buyers prefer stock condition.

I don't really understand this because it's all about 'perceived' beauty. While I agree with your taste in that the stock form of the car is simply stunning (which is funny because I am a high school kid with an NSX), everyone is entitled to their own car- not to say you were saying they weren't. "Mods" is also so vague because while I'm not big into visual mods, my car has a vast amount of performance mods like coilovers, differential, I/H/T/E, injectors, etc. These mods (other than exhaust and diff.) I cannot understand why someone wouldn't want because of how they improve the performance of the car. Just my opinion

 

[tof]

I'm torn on the type-R wing. It doesn't quite flow with the lines of the car, but at the same time, it's sort of a factory part. I like pretty much everything about the authentic type-R, and the wing in particular seems like a good accent to the rear of the car, like the wing on a 911 turbo. The only problem with it is that of course, my car isn't an authentic type-R. Does having one make you look like a poser, or an enthusiast?

On the practical side, it's light enough that the trunk lid doesn't hit me in the head when I'm trying to unload the car. Maybe that's the more important point.

I think you should go with your gut. Unlike poorly conceived suspension modifications, sporting an R wing won't have any impact on the car's handling or performance. I would say there are plenty of very classy NSXs among primers that sport the type-R replica wings that this is not really a poser modification. And if you like it and some people think it is posing, too bad for them. It's your car. (Personally I think the type-R wing only works well on panda paint schemes...i.e. white body and black roof. But that's just my personal opinion and should not be a factor in the decision of other owners.)

On the practical side, I would recommend new trunk struts. They cost a good bit less than a quality type-R replica wing.

 

[Hasdrubal]

luigib, I think you're talking about something slightly different than what I was, which is mods that make sense at the time, but later on look overdone or excessive in actual use. The hood and big wing I put on the car were intended for future track use. They would look right on a race car, but as the years went by and I never actually got to the track (except for work, and I couldn't use my own car), they began to look stupid to me.

I guess I would put mods into two basic categories- things that are done to actually improve the performance of the car, in the environment the car is actually used, and things that are done to show off. The second category is the 'Fast and Furious' type, even if it by coincidence really does improve performance. A big wing on a touring prepped Accord? If paired with a proper front splitter, should improve corner speed. The same big wing on an Accord that's stock except for the largest muffler that could be found? Driven exclusively to the local mall, to drive slowly through the parking lot in front of teenagers? Fast and Furious.

Some mods do nothing but improve a vehicle. Replacing the early style cast iron log manifolds with equal length headers doesn't have any drawback that I am aware of. Some mods that you think will improve performance actually hurt, like replacing the stock NSX airbox (that functions as a cold air intake) with a cone K&N type that sucks in hot air from the engine bay. Some mods are a mix of both, like suspension. Stiffer springs control the wheel motion better at speed, especially on the track, but make the ride harsh for commuting. Set the ride height low on coilovers and you can reduce body roll, but good luck with potholes, angled driveways, and speed bumps.

My car also has headers, CT exhaust, and Bilstein shocks, which I didn't even think to mention because they don't look flashy, or really change the function of the car a great deal away from how it came from the factory. That is, there's no tradeoff that makes me think, 'do I really want that on there?' Sounds like you've got a better handle on what's tasteful and worthwhile than I did.

 

[luigib]

luigib, I think you're talking about something slightly different than what I was.

...

I think we just have a misunderstanding. I was just saying that the some people actually prefer the racing look to the refined look, even if they have no intention to track their car. I agree that heavy aerodynamic body mods look funny on a street car.

Also, by intake, I meant a stock intake with a UNI filter. My coilovers, like most, also have adjustable dampening so the ride really isn't too bad and I only run them at NSX-R heights. I didn't know lowering a car reduced body roll?

 

[synergy004]

My build thread is a good analogy to this thread with the exception of the interior and additional liters added.

 

[Honcho]

I'm torn on the type-R wing. It doesn't quite flow with the lines of the car, but at the same time, it's sort of a factory part. I like pretty much everything about the authentic type-R, and the wing in particular seems like a good accent to the rear of the car, like the wing on a 911 turbo. The only problem with it is that of course, my car isn't an authentic type-R. Does having one make you look like a poser, or an enthusiast?

On the practical side, it's light enough that the trunk lid doesn't hit me in the head when I'm trying to unload the car. Maybe that's the more important point.

The problem with the R wing is that it is designed to be part of a complete aero system, so my view is unless you have all the other R aero parts (Hood, duct, undertray, rubber deflectors, etc.), it is not going to operate effectively. Thus, it is rendered to bling. I do not like the look of any big wing on the NSX, as I consider the integrated factory spoiler to be an iconic image of the car. I was thinking about asking Procar to do a factory wing in CF and then paint it body color for a stealth weight reduction...

 

[Hasdrubal]

We only have a partial misunderstanding. We both agree there are some people who prefer the race car look for the street. Those are the people I call the fast and furious crowd. I ended up with that style of mods by trying to actually prep my car for the track but then never going.

Lowering a car reduces roll by bringing the center of gravity down, so less leverage for the same amount of lateral g. On some cars designed for more stock height, you can lower enough to get completely outside the normal range of motion. This is usually what causes ridiculous camber, which I define as twice as much as you can expect on an actual touring car. For these cars, overall corner speed is lower because the tires are so unevenly loaded.

This week I put the stock wing back on. I think it's going to stay.

Edit- Honcho, are you saying the wing will not work at all, because the airflow from the front of the car is not the same as it would be if the rest of the type-R package were in place, or that it will work but the balance will be off for the same reason? I think the second one is true, but the wing is such a poor airfoil shape compared to actual racing wings that it doesn't really make a real difference under about 140mph.

I think the conclusion I've reached is that it's bling because it doesn't really do anything at public road speeds, and it doesn't do what a race car needs at race speeds. On an authentic type-R, it doesn't need to be justified because being an authentic type-R justifies being itself, and doesn't need to make excuses.

 

[Honcho]

This week I put the stock wing back on. I think it's going to stay.

Edit- Honcho, are you saying the wing will not work at all, because the airflow from the front of the car is not the same as it would be if the rest of the type-R package were in place, or that it will work but the balance will be off for the same reason? I think the second one is true, but the wing is such a poor airfoil shape compared to actual racing wings that it doesn't really make a real difference under about 140mph.

I think the conclusion I've reached is that it's bling because it doesn't really do anything at public road speeds, and it doesn't do what a race car needs at race speeds. On an authentic type-R, it doesn't need to be justified because being an authentic type-R justifies being itself, and doesn't need to make excuses.

The wing will still "work" in that airflow will still go over it and create more downforce than the stock wing. But, that downforce will be out of whack with the rest of the car. If you read the NSX-R tech development material on Honda's website, it is clear they targeted a very specific F-R downforce and cD balance with the aero mods, which then was designed to compliment the suspension setup and grip of the tire compunds. You're right- this is real race car stuff, which makes sense incidentally as the NSX-R is designed as a track day car. So, if you slap a R wing on your stock NSX, your car will not handle anywhere close to the way a real NSX-R does, which is why I say it is mostly bling. Also, under 100 mph, it won't matter anyway.

Now, if you are a track driver and need some more rear downforce independent of your other suspension tuning, then an R wing might make sense. Though, most track guys I know go straight to the big wings since the R does not add that much more.