Slow F430 in new C&D.

[NSXLuvr]

The article states that the F1 setup on the US cars doesn't have the launch control like the Euro-spec car tested before. In addition, the car used for this test was a loaner from a dealer's personal collection. So of course they didn't want to launch too aggressively with this one. They kept the launch revs low and the numbers suffered.

Ok that can explain the 0-60 time, maybe the 1/4 mile time. But what about the 0 -150 time. That seems a bit slow for a car with that much HP, good aerodynamics and lightweight(compared to others).

 

[liftshard]

I wouldn't be so sure on the last two items - there are several serious sources that can tell you that the first plane (without engine by Lilienthal) and the first computer (Zuse Z 1 in 1936) may have been in Germany.

HAHAHAHA...of course. And a French hairdresser tells me that the airplane was actually invented in France.

Well, bzzt. Sorry. The Wright Brothers did it. And, they got the photographic evidence, not rumors and not bullshit.

The proof is in the pudding. When they showed up at the Paris Airshow a few years after inventing the plane, circa 1905 or 1906 or whatever, their crate blew everything else out of the water. It was lightyears better than anything else in existence. The crowd actually screamed when they put it into a banked, coordinated turn, because nothing like that was possible before and any roll maneuver meant loss of control and imminent crash. The Wrights flew the thing around the field like a real plane.

None of the competing showers had anything REMOTELY close to this. Their models got off the ground, flew in a straight line, then landed. In essence, they demonstrated and taught designs which were where the Wrights were at invention while the Wrights were already operating with a 3-axis model.

As for the computer, Charles Babbage did it, a Brit. I should have been more specific, the "microprocessor," which was invented by Intel in 1974.

 

[Klayton]

HAHAHAHA...of course. And a French hairdresser tells me that the airplane was actually invented in France.

Well, bzzt. Sorry. The Wright Brothers did it. And, they got the photographic evidence, not rumors and not bullshit.
[..]

Proven fact Lilienthal was the first (documented) to fly a heavier than air vehicle.

 

[liftshard]

I agree about the wing-man Lilienthal but even if we speak about more airplane-like devices, more and more historician agrees that the first human flight was done in 1902 by Richard Pearse from New Zealand:

http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/pearse1.html

I saw a nice feature about him on BBC sometime ago.

Furthermore the Wrights needed headwinds or catapults to start their planes, so they were not fully self-powered

This is the most utterly absurd thing I've ever heard.

A headwind does NOT provide POWER. And, they were NOT using a catapult, it was a launch track the same as EVERYBODY used for years during this period.

BTW, the first human "flight" was in balloons. By French people. This is the airplane we are talking about, not balloons, not gliders, and not bullshit or flying saucers.

I forgot to answer this question. Landing on the moon wouldn't have been possible (at least that early in the late 60s) without major starting help from some german rocket scientists (mainly Wernher v. Braun) who went straight from building the V 1 and V 2 weapons that destroyed parts of U.K. into the U.S. space program. The first U.S. rockets were somewhat V 2s with another paint scheme.

The V2s we got were in 1945. We landed on the moon 24 years later. There is no relation between the V2 program and the Apollo program. The V2 was not a manned, multistage lift device, it was a ballistic missile.

The latest failures in the space shuttle program may also be an indication that there's something wrong.

Does anyone else HAVE a space shuttle? When is the last time the Buran went up and down?

Everybody wants to take credit for American success. Well, if it was Germans and French and Swiss and freakin Kiwis, howcome it always seemed to happen here?

We got the first nuclear reactor off the ground, too. Chicago, 1934.

 

[Klayton]

[..]Everybody wants to take credit for American success. Well, if it was Germans and French and Swiss and freakin Kiwis, howcome it always seemed to happen here?[..]

Jep because we all are so jealous of you americans :biggrin:

[..]We got the first nuclear reactor off the ground, too. Chicago, 1934.[..]

Well thats of course an invention to be proud of.....

Oh and by the way IIRC Enrico Fermi invented the nuclear reactor and built it in Chicago. Also he was the leader of the team of physicists on the manhattan project.

He was a 'freakin' :biggrin: italian. :biggrin:

 

[liftshard]

Jep because we all are so jealous of you americans :biggrin:

Well thats of course an invention to be proud of.....

Oh and by the way IIRC Enrico Fermi invented the nuclear reactor and built it in Chicago. Also he was the leader of the team of physicists on the manhattan project.

He was a 'freakin' :biggrin: italian. :biggrin:

We affectionately refer to them as "wops" here, thankyouverymuch.

It's just funny how everything happened here. Seems like all these italians, germans, jews, brits got more done here than anywhere else.

And, while they did it, they were all Americans. Enrico Fermi did not lead the Manhattan Project, however; that was Robert Oppenheimer. We also invented the Hydrogen Bomb. God knows the ancestry of Teller and Ulam...surely, somebody somewhere will claim credit because they emigrated from their nation.

 

[Klayton]

[..]It's just funny how everything happened here. Seems like all these italians, germans, jews, brits got more done here than anywhere else.[..]

Big surprise. Ever thought about the fact the US pumps more money into war related research than any other nation in the world?

[..]And, while they did it, they were all Americans. Enrico Fermi did not lead the Manhattan Project, however; that was Robert Oppenheimer. [..]

Please take the time to reread my post. I never wrote that Enrico Fermi led the manhatten poject. Taking Enrico Fermi as an example, he became an american citizen 1944, 2 years after the first controlled nuclear reactor. Just to be exact. :tongue:

 

[NSX-Racer]

Liftshard, you exposed yourself with your posts. I wrote none of the statements in the way you seemed to understand it. I tried to answer one of your questions in a serious manner and received a ridiculous pamphlet. So that's the last time I will answer you (I'm pretty sure you find my answers useless anyway so no loss for you).

I hope that only a few of the U.S. Prime members are of your kind because you fulfill all the prejudices some parts of the world have of the "bad American" who feels he is better than all the others. (And you're not IMHO)

So if that does satisfy you: You won, I lost.

 

[liftshard]

Liftshard, you exposed yourself with your posts. I wrote none of the statements in the way you seemed to understand it. I tried to answer one of your questions in a serious manner and received a ridiculous pamphlet. So that's the last time I will answer you (I'm pretty sure you find my answers useless anyway so no loss for you).

Uh...I don't recall really asking any questions.

I hope that only a few of the U.S. Prime members are of your kind because you fulfill all the prejudices some parts of the world have of the "bad American" who feels he is better than all the others. (And you're not IMHO)

Right, sure, whatever. This is YOUR prejudice talking. The rest of the world has penis envy which is why French hairdressers say ridiculous things about the invention of the airplane. Nobody likes a success story and nobody likes winners.

Big surprise. Ever thought about the fact the US pumps more money into war related research than any other nation in the world?

What does this have to do with us inventing the television? I mean, a German criticizing the USA for being a warmongering nation??!! Just 50 years ago, you invaded all of Europe! The vast majority of our technical innovation has NOT come from war-related research. You guys just can't stand success by somebody else, can you??

 

[Klayton]

[..]What does this have to do with us inventing the television? I mean, a German criticizing the USA for being a warmongering nation??!! Just 50 years ago, you invaded all of Europe! The vast majority of our technical innovation has NOT come from war-related research. You guys just can't stand success by somebody else, can you??

Oh come on. You're not that dumb are you?

You never wrote anything about the invention of television.. what the heck are you talking about?

Matter of fact I was not even born back in time WW1&2 took place, so what the heck you want to tell me with "Just 50 years ago, you invaded all of Europe!" ? You're blaming me for beeing born in germany? You make me responsible for what happend 50 years ago? Oh my goodness.

Do I have to remind you over 50% of you guys voted for a president who invaded a country without any legitimate reasons?

Sorry if I sound rude or anything. But people like you are pissing me off. I dont even understand what you wanna tell me by throwing bullshit like "You guys just can't stand success by somebody else, can you??" at my forehead. I just corrected some of the completely wrong statements of yours.

 

[gheba_nsx]

I am curious to know where Liftshard is originally from...

 

[gheba_nsx]

Just a small list of Swiss inventions... with a population of 6 millions it is not that bad...

Electric telegraph (George-Louis Lesage, 1774)
Psychotropic effects of Opium (Albrecht von Haller, 1776-77)
Soda water (the Jacob Schweppe, 1783)
Central draft burner: Quinquet (Ami Argand, 1784)
Absinthe (Daniel-Henri Dubied, 1797)
Internal combustion engine (François Isaac de Rivaz, 1807)
Optical lenses (Pierre-Louis Guinand, around 1810)
Cartoons (Rodolphe Toepffer, 1827)
First multinational enterprise (Georg Fischer, 1833)
Fuel cell (the Friedrich Schoenbein, 1838)
Photometer (Jean-Daniel Colladon, around 1840)
Dynamometer (Jean-Daniel Colladon, around 1840)
Cube sugar (Jakob Christoph Rad in Datschitz, 1843)
Chocolate-bar (François-Louis Cailler, 1849)
Red Cross (Jean Henri Dunant, 1864)
Powdered milk (Henri Nestlé from Frankfurt, 1867)
Antiseptic operation and bandage (Theodor Kocher, 1867)
DNA Desoxyribonucleic Acid (Friedrich Miescher, 1869)
Milk chocolate (Daniel Peter, 1875)
Gramophone (John Heinrich Kruesi, 1877)
Fondant chocolate (Johann Rudolf Lindt, 1879)
Car with two-stroke engine (Pierre-Joseph Ravel, 1880)
Lamella tooth rack for mountain railways (Carl Roman Abt, 1882)
First organ transplantation: thyroid gland (Theodor Kocher, 1883)
Four-cylinder-compound double engine (Anatole Mallet, 1884)
First bobsled (Christian Mathis, 1889; first bobsled race: St. Moritz, 1892)
Saccharin (Sandoz, 1899),
Swiss Army Knife; later "Victorinox" (Karl Elsener, 1891: Patent 1897)
Cellophane (Jacques Edwin Brandenberger, after 1900; 1908)
Copying machine: Schapirograph (Rudolf Fürrer, 1902)
Steam turbine "Zoelly" (Heinrich Zoelly, 1903)
Turbocharger (Alfred Buechi, Brown-Boveri, 1905)
General Theory of Relativity (Albert Einstein, of Ulm, 1905)
Helicopter (Armand and Henri Dufaux, 1905)
E=mc2 (Albert Einstein, 1907)
Aluminium foil (Company Alusuisse, 1912)
Zip-fastener: "Riri" (Martin Othmar Winterhalter, 1923)
Vitamin C (Roche, 1934)
Common travel typewriter (Company Paillard, 1935)
Cortisone (Tadeus Reichstein, 1936)
"Nescafé" (Max Morgenthaler, 1938)
LSD (Albert Hofmann, 1938)
DDT insecticide (Paul Hermann Mueller, 1939)
Waterproof plane: Stamoid (Company Stamm, 1939)
First non industrial electric sewing machine (Dr. Ramon Casas Robert; Company Tavaro, 1940)
Cortisone (Ciba, 1946)
"Turmix" mixer (Traugott Oertli, 1947)
Aerosol spray valve (Robert H. Abplanalp, 1948)
Pressure cooker: Duromatic (Heinrich Kuhn, 1949)
Potato chips (Hans Meier, 1950; produced by company Zweifel 1955)
"Velcro" fastening (George de Mestral, 1951)
Electronic calculating machine (Eduard Stiefel, Heinz Rutishauser and Ambros Speiser at the Zurich ETH, 1955)
Electronic wristwatch: "Accutron" (Max Hetzel, William Bennett, Egbert Van Haaften, William Mutter, 1959)
First total hip prosthesis (Maurice Edmond Müller, 1960)
Electrical toothbrush "Broxodent" (Company Tavaro, 1960)
First analogous quartz-wristwatch : "Beta 21" (Centre Electronique Horologer, 1967)
Programming language "Pascal" (Niklaus Wirth, 1968)
LCD-display (Roche in Basel, 1968/70)
Portable Computer System (PCS): "Smaky" (Jean-Daniel Nicoud at EPFL, 1975)
Workstation: "Lilith" (Nikaus Wirth, 1980)
Computer mouse "Logitech" (Jean Daniel Nicoud/ Daniel Borel 1981)
Insulin pump: MRS (Willy and Peter Michel, 1984)
Steamiron system: "LauraStar" (Jean Monney, 1986)
Flight simulator: "Elite" (Rudolf Marty, Initiative Computing, 1988)
WWW (the English Tim Berners-Lee and the Belgian Robert Cailliau, at CERN in Geneva, 1991)
Supercomputer: "GigaBooster" (Anton Gunzinger, 1992-95)
First brain surgery with robot (Lausanne university hospital, 1992)
MicroScooter (Wim J. Ouboter, Zurich ,1996)


As you see, not only chocolate, drugs/medicines and watches but also Pascal, world wide web, workstation and mouse...

 

[NSX-Racer]

Ooops, gheba, did you move Ulm (Einsteins hometown) to Switzerland? Yesterday it was still in Baden-Wuerttemberg (Germany) but maybe that has changed today :biggrin:

Of course I know Einstein worked for the Patentamt in Zuerich (CH) at that time so we may share the merits :wink:

 

[gheba_nsx]

That is why it is pointed out "of Ulm" in the description... he is also an Alumni of the ETH like me .

Furthermore he got the Swiss citizenship (he was not even German anymore if I remeber correctely).


Ah right, I am sure Liftshard will point out he was "also American"...

 

[NSX-Racer]

Ah right, I am sure Liftshard will point out he was "also American"...

Agreed - and I'm also sure this guy would not have known in which country he should put Ulm (there are at least 3 Ulms in the U.S. so of course Einstein was born in America :biggrin: )

 

[snake08]

that view of the f430 from the rear almost makes up for the unexpected #'s. i wonder why they chose to test the turbo s instead of the gt2...

 

[Da Hapa]

How did we get into an ethnocentric "my country can beat up your country" discussion?

Let's leave politics and other crap to the side and talk about the important stuff... cars.

 

[liftshard]

How did we get into an ethnocentric "my country can beat up your country" discussion?

Let's leave politics and other crap to the side and talk about the important stuff... cars.

Yes, especially since the USA owns that big rock that's orbiting the earth. We like to call it "the moon." Ain't nobody else's flag up there. We own that sh!t. Bow down before us.

 

[0ctan3]

ok kids, back to the f430.

on this weeks Top Gear, the 430 was significantly slower around their track than the 360cs... and at the end of the review, Jeremy mentioned that a ferrari test driver attributes this mostly to the fact the 430 runs Bridgestone's instead of Pirelli's which came with the 360.
fyi, it looks like the 360cs is about 400lbs! lighter than the 430. wouldn't this be the real reason?

anyone know if this is true, and if so, which model of tires come with both cars?

 

[NSXLuvr]

BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND!

The F430 was listed at 3380 lbs in the C&D article. I was hoping that was with driver and test equipment. However, considering that the Ford GT's weight was 3520 lbs.(It's that same in other mag. tests) I seriously doubt it.