If you have the money then go for it. You will be getting the best NSX to date.
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91 Red/Ivory #2061
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91 Red/Ivory #2061
Should I be hesitant to buy a new 2002 now?
- Thread starter Rococo
- Start date
Here's a new article on Honda Hybrids...
http://www.auto.com/industry/iwird7_20020907.htm
Honda is obviously making noise about this and it seems fairly certain that they're going to do something of a performance nature in the Acura lineup.
It's fun to speculate and wonder and I'm sure Honda will surprise us whatever they do.
I'll say this, however, I can see a hybrid power design just about on any Acura model, be it their sports sedans, luxury sedans, or the MDX, or with vehicles where weight is not a factor to be held to an absolute minimum. But I don't see it working all that well in the NSX or the RSX coupe.
I also don't think a hybrid NSX would be all that much fun on the track after the batteries were depleted from that continual high demand.
-Jim
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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html
[This message has been edited by Jimbo (edited 09 September 2002).]
http://www.auto.com/industry/iwird7_20020907.htm
Honda is obviously making noise about this and it seems fairly certain that they're going to do something of a performance nature in the Acura lineup.
It's fun to speculate and wonder and I'm sure Honda will surprise us whatever they do.
I'll say this, however, I can see a hybrid power design just about on any Acura model, be it their sports sedans, luxury sedans, or the MDX, or with vehicles where weight is not a factor to be held to an absolute minimum. But I don't see it working all that well in the NSX or the RSX coupe.
I also don't think a hybrid NSX would be all that much fun on the track after the batteries were depleted from that continual high demand.
-Jim
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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html
[This message has been edited by Jimbo (edited 09 September 2002).]
Wouldn't they be constantly recharged from all that heavy braking?
Ken,
Batteries can only be recharged so quickly. And when you do try to push them...reliability goes down. The chemistry can only respond so quickly.
There is a tremendous amount of energy generated during braking that theoretically could be available for use, but the question is; can that energy be transferred quickly and efficiently back into the batteries. Most of this energy is simply lost as heat.
(Very High-Speed Flywheels do a much better job in this area...but they're heavy and bulky too)
Because of the physics involved, it's unfortunately much easier to drain a battery than it is to charge it. When you think about how little time it takes to "recharge" a gasoline engine by refilling the tank, it's actually pretty amazing.
Of course, it is possible that Honda or someone else has some new battery technologies under development but usually one hears about this kind of stuff in the various technical papers and journals a few years ahead of time.
The current Honda hybrids don't solely recharge their batteries from regenerative braking, much of it comes from gasoline engine during normal driving. When you're cruising on the highway, the system kind of acts like a super trickle charger.
It's my understanding that the current hybrid systems have a very limited duty cycle that assist with starting and acceleration at specific times. For example, the high torque of the electric motor is used for starting out from a stop and for full throttle acceleration.
Of course, on the racetrack there's not much benefit as you don't start from a dead stop all that often - and that's where electric motors really shine: stop and go traffic.
Put another way, if you "race" a Insight you'll run out of battery power fairly soon and you'll be left with the gasoline engine only...and you'll then have to lug the dead weight of the motor and the batteries around.
Here's another analogy...imagine a really heavy nitrous system with a real small storage tank. Fun for a few laps...then not so much fun.
There's also the cooling requirements. It takes a fair amount of power to cool the batteries and the electronics. I can just imagine what a high-performance hybrid system would need in the way of cooling. Those batteries and power circuits would be glowing cherry red trying to deal with the demand.
Again, I'm not saying it's impossible that we would see a hybrid NSX that would be true to its original mission, but it would be an amazing achievement. And even then, I see major compromises that would be limited by physical laws.
Actually, a hybrid car designed for the drag strip (as opposed to a road course) would make much more sense. Tons of torque from a dead stop. The battery weight could be over the drive wheels. You don't run that much in a given day and most of the time when you're waiting to run you could be recharging your batteries.
-Jim
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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html
Batteries can only be recharged so quickly. And when you do try to push them...reliability goes down. The chemistry can only respond so quickly.
There is a tremendous amount of energy generated during braking that theoretically could be available for use, but the question is; can that energy be transferred quickly and efficiently back into the batteries. Most of this energy is simply lost as heat.
(Very High-Speed Flywheels do a much better job in this area...but they're heavy and bulky too)
Because of the physics involved, it's unfortunately much easier to drain a battery than it is to charge it. When you think about how little time it takes to "recharge" a gasoline engine by refilling the tank, it's actually pretty amazing.
Of course, it is possible that Honda or someone else has some new battery technologies under development but usually one hears about this kind of stuff in the various technical papers and journals a few years ahead of time.
The current Honda hybrids don't solely recharge their batteries from regenerative braking, much of it comes from gasoline engine during normal driving. When you're cruising on the highway, the system kind of acts like a super trickle charger.
It's my understanding that the current hybrid systems have a very limited duty cycle that assist with starting and acceleration at specific times. For example, the high torque of the electric motor is used for starting out from a stop and for full throttle acceleration.
Of course, on the racetrack there's not much benefit as you don't start from a dead stop all that often - and that's where electric motors really shine: stop and go traffic.
Put another way, if you "race" a Insight you'll run out of battery power fairly soon and you'll be left with the gasoline engine only...and you'll then have to lug the dead weight of the motor and the batteries around.
Here's another analogy...imagine a really heavy nitrous system with a real small storage tank. Fun for a few laps...then not so much fun.
There's also the cooling requirements. It takes a fair amount of power to cool the batteries and the electronics. I can just imagine what a high-performance hybrid system would need in the way of cooling. Those batteries and power circuits would be glowing cherry red trying to deal with the demand.
Again, I'm not saying it's impossible that we would see a hybrid NSX that would be true to its original mission, but it would be an amazing achievement. And even then, I see major compromises that would be limited by physical laws.
Actually, a hybrid car designed for the drag strip (as opposed to a road course) would make much more sense. Tons of torque from a dead stop. The battery weight could be over the drive wheels. You don't run that much in a given day and most of the time when you're waiting to run you could be recharging your batteries.
-Jim
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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html
Thanks. Still, I doubt that they would be foolish enough to introduce a sports car with high levels of performance everywhere except the race track...
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As a wise man once said: There is no currently existing hybrid technology which will benefit a P911, F360, C5, NSX type car. It's not a matter of how smart Honda is, it's a matter of technology which does not yet exist. The key hurdles are:
* Weight from the system
* Inability to recapture energy lost under heavy braking such as at the track
* Inability to maintain energy supply for repeated, extended full throttle operations such as at the track
So I'm quite confident we will not see any hybrid technology on a true track-capable car anytime in the next couple years. Maybe 10 years, sure!
I'm sure the Forums Nazi can dig up the original discussion...
[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 10 September 2002).]
* Weight from the system
* Inability to recapture energy lost under heavy braking such as at the track
* Inability to maintain energy supply for repeated, extended full throttle operations such as at the track
So I'm quite confident we will not see any hybrid technology on a true track-capable car anytime in the next couple years. Maybe 10 years, sure!
I'm sure the Forums Nazi can dig up the original discussion...
[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 10 September 2002).]
Originally posted by Lud:
I'm sure the Forums Nazi can dig up the original discussion...
[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 10 September 2002).]
The NAZI should be on alert whenever the word "Hybrid" & "Electric assist" is mentioned in any thread pertaining to the NSX. I wondered if I was missing some mystical technology that hadn't been uncovered for use in autos. Reading on the subject and vomiting thereafter made it clear that its not viable. Pardon me while I go and re-charge my batteries for my digital camera adding an additional 15% weight.
I agree with you on many points! I like your logic. I never thought about the possibility that there would be no next generation NSX. That sounds convincing in different aspects.
I don't agree with the theory that the NSX will go away.
Here's my reasoning.
1. Honda wouldn't have gone through the 2002 face lift effort in order to keep the car reasonably fresh unless they were committed to the NSX. Oft times such changes late in the life of a particular model signify a desire to maintain model continuity with the next generation.
2. NSX sales have been so low, for so long, that Honda could have easily pulled the plug long ago if it was solely a dollar and cents issue. Obviously, even though Honda must lose money on each NSX sold, they must like having a "halo" car. One can only assume that Honda is of the opinion that the NSX brings more to the company than pure sales revenues.
3. Honda has made a number of conflicting leaks to the press about the next-gen NSX. I don't believe they would do this if they planned to kill the car. I do think Honda was floating trial balloons to gauge reaction.
These 3 things taken together lead me to believe that there will be a new NSX in the next two or three years.
-Jim
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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html
Here's my reasoning.
1. Honda wouldn't have gone through the 2002 face lift effort in order to keep the car reasonably fresh unless they were committed to the NSX. Oft times such changes late in the life of a particular model signify a desire to maintain model continuity with the next generation.
2. NSX sales have been so low, for so long, that Honda could have easily pulled the plug long ago if it was solely a dollar and cents issue. Obviously, even though Honda must lose money on each NSX sold, they must like having a "halo" car. One can only assume that Honda is of the opinion that the NSX brings more to the company than pure sales revenues.
3. Honda has made a number of conflicting leaks to the press about the next-gen NSX. I don't believe they would do this if they planned to kill the car. I do think Honda was floating trial balloons to gauge reaction.
These 3 things taken together lead me to believe that there will be a new NSX in the next two or three years.
-Jim
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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html
If that happens, the first thing they will drop is their motosrport program (F1). And then their type R program.
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I agree with Jimbo and his reasoning.
I also agree with his prediction on the timing. While the press leaks have indicated that the new NSX would be here in late 2003 as a 2004 model, I have felt all along that it would be at least a year later than that. Not based on anything specific, just because most everything in the world tends to run late.
It's also worth pointing out that there have been rumors that Toyota/Lexus is also considering coming out with a megabucks supercar as a "halo car". If the NSX were such a dismal proposition, that would not be the case.
I also agree with his prediction on the timing. While the press leaks have indicated that the new NSX would be here in late 2003 as a 2004 model, I have felt all along that it would be at least a year later than that. Not based on anything specific, just because most everything in the world tends to run late.
It's also worth pointing out that there have been rumors that Toyota/Lexus is also considering coming out with a megabucks supercar as a "halo car". If the NSX were such a dismal proposition, that would not be the case.
As to the original topic If you want an 02 now make a dealer an offer.My local dealer just got an 02 black/black.I took it for a mellow sub 6k rpm drive as I'm a valued customer,and boy I almost forgot what a sublime drive the newer stock cars are.Honda did so much to tune out exhaust noise and tune in a melodius intake note!With all the mods to my car I almost forgot.Anyway there is alot of leeway on sticker.Private me if anyone wants the dealer info.I,m hearing and I believe that ther will be two cars the current nsx at 60-80 k and a new v-8 supercar at ~130k ,;which will carry the nsx monicher is anyones guess.
no kidding? a new ferrari killer? i sure hope they keep the nsx badge on the high end car.
Another important reason, I think, why Honda wouldn't dream of killing the NSX, is because of JGTC. It's the only car they've got for GT500, and it does extremely well. They'd be silly to just pull out of a series that reflects so well on their brand. Along the same lines, I wouldn't be surprised if the next gen NSX is driven by what would be competitive in that series.
As for other companies producing "Halo" cars... If in fact the next NSX is gonna be really fast, and designed with the JGTC GT500 series in mind, perhaps Toyota and Nissan are scared of Honda's next NSX being so much better than the current one that in GT500 spec, the Skylines and Supras can't keep up, and thus they need to build a competitive supercar to maintain face in such a prominent Japanese race series? Of course, that doesn't necessarily make sense since Diablos and McLaren F1's out-perform NSXes, Supras, and Skylines so dramatically in street form, but can't seem to keep up on the race track.
I'm probably just full of shit.
-Mike
As for other companies producing "Halo" cars... If in fact the next NSX is gonna be really fast, and designed with the JGTC GT500 series in mind, perhaps Toyota and Nissan are scared of Honda's next NSX being so much better than the current one that in GT500 spec, the Skylines and Supras can't keep up, and thus they need to build a competitive supercar to maintain face in such a prominent Japanese race series? Of course, that doesn't necessarily make sense since Diablos and McLaren F1's out-perform NSXes, Supras, and Skylines so dramatically in street form, but can't seem to keep up on the race track.
I'm probably just full of shit.
-Mike
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