Short Shift Kit! What do I need to know?

Joined
15 January 2007
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Braselton, GA
I am replacing my carpet so the interior is pretty much gutted in my NSX. A friend said while my car was like this I should get a short shift kit (Specificly SOSs) http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produ...e_products/NSX/Cedar_Ridge/short_shifter_kit/

Should I? Is it hard to install? Those that have done this mod, do you like it or would you do it again? ...Or should that money go to gas.

Here is my .02 cents:

1. Pretty easy to install this even for a novice. The instructions are pretty good as I recall and frankly once you get the jist of it, its easy. Just make sure you put the the part on correctly. It's a bit hard to get on and it is possible to put it on backwards as I recall and you could bend it if you do in the process. A vise, hammer and pliers are needed (light taps on the hammer).
2. I recommend also getting the NSX-R short stalk too. It threads down further so you can have a more compact shifter (that is the fancy of today's cars and I personally love it).
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produ...products/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/gear_lever_stalk/
3. I like the stock shift knob myself but I like it lower (very low in fact). I installed the short shift kit, the short stalk kit and then I cut the stalk down another 1.25" AND drilled into the original shift knob so it threads down as far as possible probably only 1/4" before the stalk would stick out the top... (there is a bend so it's limited a bit). That is my setup.
4. For the purist, the short shift kit is less efficient, there can be just a slight bit more play. Also the short shift kits are a bit harder to get into gear. Be sure you are properly down shifting (by 'blipping' the throttle) to get into gear easily and reducing synchro wear. Especially 1st on the 5spd which you occasionally need.
5. Lastly, there is some taking apart of the center council but there are very good instructions (I wrote a set myself which I posted previously with the help of others).

If you have any problems, PM me and I will walk you through it. I can also send you the disassembly instructions by email. Plan on 1-2hrs but it's not bad work.

I love it and it's completely reversible so no value impact. I did my 92 and now my 2000.
 
. . . Be sure you are properly down shifting (by 'blipping' the throttle) to get into gear easily and reducing synchro wear. . . . .

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

When the clutch is in, the engine is not connected to the transmission so blipping the throttle does not get the layshaft and desired gear up to speed. For that (and therefore to reduce synchro wear), you need to double clutch.

In other words, blipping the throttle does nothing to help downshift while the clutch is in, unless your clutch does not fully disengage. It does, of course, make for smoother downshifts after you let the clutch out.
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

When the clutch is in, the engine is not connected to the transmission so blipping the throttle does not get the layshaft and desired gear up to speed. For that (and therefore to reduce synchro wear), you need to double clutch.

In other words, blipping the throttle does nothing to help downshift while the clutch is in, unless your clutch does not fully disengage. It does, of course, make for smoother downshifts after you let the clutch out.

I am not a technical expert on transmissions but I can tell you that this throttle process greatly helps get the car in gear. It was explained to me (by primers and a YouTube video for what that's worth...) that synchros are brass rings which are between two points, one of which is moving by the engine and one of which is moving by the wheels. Apparently it acts like a little mini clutch of sorts that aligns the gears. So the side attached to the engine, the 'blip' would increase the rpm to more closely match the wheels side. I don't know the specific you speak of (and I am dying to take apart a transmission) but I am very sure this has made my driving experience much smoother. Maybe it's because one is letting the clutch out at the same time that make this process work.

I am very open to understanding the true technical dynamics of what is happening and don't claim to be an expert. If the car is at 45 in 3rd and I push the clutch in and slowly push the car into 2nd, you will hear something in the transmission spooling up to match revs. If you blip the throttle and let out the clutch this process seems to be greatly reduced.

I need to get a hold of a tranny to disassemble...
 
transmission operation

There are a bunch of youtube videos and other articles that help. After reading on Prime that Honda recommends against skipping shifts because it increases synchro wear, I decided that I wanted to understand how a transmission works finally. As I understand it, here are the basics (for the present discussion, we are focused on (E)(ii) below):

Mechanics:
  1. The input shaft comes from the clutch and engages with the intermediate shaft (aka countershaft, layshaft, cluster gear).
  2. The countershaft contains gears for each of the ratios that the transmission will use; they all spin together with the input shaft (main drive gear).
  3. The gears on the countershaft are always engaged with gears on the mainshaft (output shaft).
  4. While the mainshaft gears are always spinning with the countershaft, they freewheel on the output shaft.
  5. Each mainshaft gear has a dog clutch: one piece that rotates with the output shaft because it is splined to the output shaft, and one piece that rotates with the countershaft. Because each dog clutch attaches to the output shaft through a spline, each may slide on the output shaft. Between the two halves of each dog clutch is a conical piece that is spring loaded--the synchro.
  6. The output shaft is always connected to the drive wheels, so it reflects the speed the car is moving.

Operation:
A) When the transmission is in neutral with the clutch out, the input shaft is rotating and therefore the countershaft and output-shaft gears are rotating but are not connected to the output shaft, which is not rotating.

B) Clutch in: the input shaft slows because it is no longer driven by the clutch; eventually it is stopped and you may shift into first gear; shifting into first causes the first-gear output-shaft gear to slide along the output shaft; the first-gear synchro engages its mating portions between the output-shaft gear and the countershaft gear (when the car is not moving and the clutch is out, this is easy because both of the mating gears are motionless).

C) Clutch out: engaging the clutch causes the input shaft to turn; as it is connected to the output shaft through the countershaft gears and first-gear dog clutch, the wheels start to turn.

D) Shifting to second:​
(i) clutch in disconnects the input shaft from the engine; but the wheels are driving the output-shaft gear and countershaft gear;
(ii) when you move the shifter into neutral, the output-shaft gear is no longer engaged with the output shaft, so the output-shaft and countershaft gears begin to slow because of frictional losses;
(iii) now you move the shifter to second; this pushes the second-gear synchro halves together (one is on the moving portion that is attached to the output shaft with a spline and the other is fixed to the countershaft gear); as the two halves touch, friction between them causes the speed of the countershaft gear to match the speed of the output-shaft gear; when the speeds are the same, the teeth of the dog clutch may engage and the shfiter moves into second;
(iv) releasing the clutch connects the engine to the input shaft; the input shaft is now moving slower than before because of the different gear ratio for second compared to first; your engine has slowed during the shift so that is good.​
***
E) Shifting from third to second:​
(i) When you disengage the clutch and move the shifter to neutral, you want to connect the output shaft to a higher-speed output-shaft gear--given the speed of the input shaft when you were in third, the second-gear output-shaft gear was moving faster than the third-gear output-shaft gear;
(ii) as you push the shifter into second, friction in the dog-clutch synchro causes the countershaft assembly to speed up, matching the speed of the second-gear output-shaft gear; once the speeds match, the shifter may slide into second as the teeth of the dog clutch engage.
(iii) letting the clutch out at this point causes the speed of the engine to match the speed of the input shaft; if you have not blipped the throttle, then the engine speed is at or lower than it was before the shift, and the transmission needs to accelerate the engine to match the input shaft; if you have appropriately blipped the throttle, the speed of the engine matches the (now higher than before) speed of the input shaft and clutch disengagement is smooth.​

With all that in mind, we can consider the effect of blipping the throttle on engaging second gear during a third-to-second downshift. Since the clutch is in at this point, the effect should be nil. All the blip does is accelerate the crankshaft and half of the clutch assembly; without a connection to the transmission, the clutch can have no effect on the transmission.

Double clutching (or double declutching, as my father might say) is a wholly different story. In this procedure, as you move the transmission to neutral on your way from third to second, you let out the clutch as you blip the throttle. This has the effect of speeding up the input shaft and countershaft--including the second-gear output-shaft gear that you want to engage with. Now when you slide the shifter towards second (with the clutch once more depressed), the second-gear output-shaft gear is going much closer to the speed of the output shaft and the synchro has to do less work to match the speeds so that the dog clutch may engage. Thus less synchro wear.

---

Notwithstanding the above, on which I am more than open to correction, I understand your point that as a matter of experience, blipping the throttle seems to help engage the shifter during downshifts, not just smooth the clutch engagement. I can suggest two theories as to why that may be true. First, perhaps the clutch does not fully disengage so that blipping the throttle does impart some torque to the input shaft and thus does affect the speed of the countershaft to some degree. Second, blipping the throttle takes additional time and shifts focus, thus perhaps just changes one's perception of the whole event. Other than that, I'm at a bit of a loss otherwise.

I fear this is too far afield the original post, but I find the discussion entirely interesting. I have always wondered about Honda's don't-skip-gears advice, considering that when you are upshifting, if the engine slows appropriately (by waiting the correct time before engaging a new gear), skipping gears should not cause any additional synchro wear. On downshifts, it seems appropriate unless one double clutches, in which case again no additional wear should result.

My dad has a 1931 Model A, which does not have synchros in its gearbox. Driving it is somewhat harrowing compared to a modern car, as each shift is an event. If you don't get it the first time, it can be extremely difficult to recover.

-jason
 
One more thing, don't let the fact that it's harder to get into gear scare you. It really not that much harder. I told a guy with an S2000 that it was hard to get into gear and then he was scared to drive my car. That's unwarranted... Once I got him to drive it he was comfortable very quickly (I let everyone drive my car as I feel privileged to own it and love to share now if I could only get a guy in a Ferrari 360 that does the same...).
 
Now that's an explanation... To avoid being fired, I will read this more closely when I get home. I am very visual so I will need to make a picture to follow it. Thanks though, I am interested in understanding what is happening that make the process I use improve shifting.
 
Now that's an explanation... To avoid being fired, I will read this more closely when I get home. I am very visual so I will need to make a picture to follow it. Thanks though, I am interested in understanding what is happening that make the process I use improve shifting.

Yea sorry about the length; I also benefited greatly from the pictures/animations:

This is good but a bit long:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOo3TLgL0kM

Also decent:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIOEueaHvFo

This is for basics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPaUJfA1KsY
 
The effect of blipping the gas is to get the engine and transmission speeds as close to equal as possible. Ever feel that jerk when down shifting if you let the RPMs drop before reengaging the clutch? Blip(rev match) see how smoth it feels.

I know if I did this mod my heel-toe would need to be adjusted for the change in shift time(I think)
 
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So we hijacked your thread some but I think my first post gave you what you need? PM me with any questions.
 
Nukes is right on. My understanding is blipping the throttle has no effect on the synchros. They do their job without any input from external forces.
 
Nukes is right on. My understanding is blipping the throttle has no effect on the synchros. They do their job without any input from external forces.
Yes, so then how would blipping the throttle make it easier to get the transmission in gear when downshifting? Based on my understanding/explanation of transmissions, it could not make it easier.
 
So we hijacked your thread some but I think my first post gave you what you need? PM me with any questions.

Yeah. Will do. Do you have any pictures of your car? I would like to see what it looks like installed.

Is there anyone else's is done this mod?
 
I'm not sure throttle blipping does help get the transmission into gear when downshifting. It only helps match flywheel speed to the input shaft speed so there is not a dramatic lurch when the clutch pedal is let out. One theory I would posit is that it is actually the time delay in blipping the throttle that allows the synchros time to mesh and change gears, not the engine rpm that makes the difference. It's the difference between "rushing" shifts and more smoothly engaging the shift lever to the next gear. That's why double synchros on ALL gears are recommended for tracked 6-speed NSXs because you can more easily speed shift the 4-5 and 5-6 change. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it. ; )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronized_down_shift_rev-matching_system

http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/shifting_tech.html
 
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Not the greatest photo but it gives you the idea. The sort shift mod is blue, lower left. Just work slow and protect console from scratches [ by inserting biz card or hard sheet plastic] when removing air duct. I used putty knife to release air duct clips. It took a little tinkering to figure out how it fit but once I saw how it went it was obvious, again, that it was one of tiDaves perfectly made pieces that fit like a glove. It works simply by extending the length underneath, thereby shortening the throw needed up top. sos short shift.jpg
 
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Here is what mine looks like with the mods and my own customizations I mentioned above. I should not that when you thread it down as far as I have, the shift boot is a bit bunched up (although you don't really notice too much).

http://youtu.be/Gf1V72PS_cg
 
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