Short Gears and R&P 4.23

[Edgemts]

I personally hate the stock gear and R&P.

My car was stock gearing. When I drove George Wang's car with short gear and 4.23, I thought it was mild improvement. Then I drove a 6 speed, which I thought it is an even better improvement. Then I drove a 6 speed with 4.55, and I thought this think is awesome! I also drove Kenji's car with stock gear and 4.55, and I thought it was a better deal than short gear and 4.23.

The past Friday I drove the same car that had the 6 speed with 4.55, but this time no 4.55 instead a stock 4.062. I thought it really make the car feel sluggish and not responsive. Wish Comptech still make the 4.55 so we didn't have to move the gear to the race car.

I had a 6 speed with the 4.55 until it exploded, I hadnt realized the problems that realtime and others have had with the 4.55.
I am going to set up two different 6 speeds to see what works better overall on the most tracks. I will say I was a little worried about running out of gear/rpms at VIR with the 4.55 but it came apart before I got a chance to push it.
anyone know right off, what 6th gear at 8K translates to in MPH assuming stock tire size. Stock r+P? 4.44? 4.55?
I will calc the difference in tire size.

 

[gheba_nsx]

My driving speeds are 99.9 % below 100 mph. I love to drive hills up and down (german: Bergrennen ). There are always some 180 degrees turns with speeds below 35 mph. Pictures of my favorite Schwägalp 'track' will follow this weekend.

Thomas, please let me know one weekend when you are going, if you do not mind I'd like to follow. Maybe we can even get Lino and his loud FIAT to follow...

 

[gheba_nsx]

Going back to the topic, it is one year and a half that I have the japanese gears (2nd, 3rd and 4th different from the European/US ones, 1st and 5th are the same) and I enjoy it. It is a very subtle difference and up to decent speeds it feels (or maybe is?) a bit quicker than the stock one.

I bought it with the car: would I do it? Probably not but it is a nice feature getting rid of that annoying gap between 1st and second.

Am I correct saying that until you do not need 4th/5th change it should not be slower with my config angainst stock? I would be surprised... I have Bob Butler's numbers somewhere but I do not find them. I should check in some old NSXDRIVER...

 

[nsxtasy]

I am going to set up two different 6 speeds to see what works better overall on the most tracks.

I wouldn't expect the differences to be much. The 4.55 will be faster at speeds where you are in the same gear with both setups, and the 4.062 will be faster at bands of speeds where you are forced to upshift with the 4.55. Unless you are at a track where you never shift - highly unlikely - the two factors will pretty much balance each other out. (This is not true at a drag strip, though, where the 4.55 will be a significant advantage.)

I will say I was a little worried about running out of gear/rpms at VIR with the 4.55 but it came apart before I got a chance to push it.
anyone know right off, what 6th gear at 8K translates to in MPH assuming stock tire size. Stock r+P? 4.44? 4.55?

202 mph with the stock 4.062 R&P, 180 mph with the 4.55. However, I don't think you can redline either one in sixth, if your drivetrain is otherwise stock.

Going back to the topic, it is one year and a half that I have the japanese gears (2nd, 3rd and 4th different from the European/US ones, 1st and 5th are the same) and I enjoy it. It is a very subtle difference and up to decent speeds it feels (or maybe is?) a bit quicker than the stock one.

I bought it with the car: would I do it? Probably not but it is a nice feature getting rid of that annoying gap between 1st and second.

Am I correct saying that until you do not need 4th/5th change it should not be slower with my config angainst stock? I would be surprised... I have Bob Butler's numbers somewhere but I do not find them. I should check in some old NSXDRIVER...

Per Bob...

Stock '91
0-60 5.31 seconds
0-150 37.78 seconds
1/4 mile 13.67 seconds

Stock '91 with short gears
0-60 5.09 seconds
0-150 41.06 seconds
1/4 mile 13.56 seconds

 

[gheba_nsx]

Thanks Ken!

Do you happen to have around 0-100mph and something quite used in real-life, like 50-100mph or something similar?

 

[nsxtasy]

Do you happen to have around 0-100mph and something quite used in real-life, like 50-100mph or something similar?

Bob provided numbers for all the speed bands in 10 mph increments.

Stock '91
0-100 12.30 seconds
50-100 8.25 seconds

Stock '91 with short gears
0-100 11.83 seconds
50-100 7.84 seconds

However, I'm a bit confused by these numbers. The speed band from 90 to 100 mph is one where the stock gears (in third gear, 1.230 ratio) should have an advantage over the short gears (in fourth gear, 1.033) - yet the numbers for that particular band show an advantage for the short gears.

 

[gheba_nsx]

Bob provided numbers for all the speed bands in 10 mph increments.

Stock '91
0-100 12.30 seconds
50-100 8.25 seconds

Stock '91 with short gears
0-100 11.83 seconds
50-100 7.84 seconds

Thanks again! This means that the japanese gears are faster in:

0-60
0-100
50-100
1/4 mile

but slower in the 0-150

This is probably why I feel the car faster... since I do not drive above 100 all that much! For the real world I can continue to assume that it is quite a good mod! Half a second in the 0-100 is a big number!

However, I'm a bit confused by these numbers. The speed band from 90 to 100 mph is one where the stock gears (in third gear, 1.230 ratio) should have an advantage over the short gears (in fourth gear, 1.033) - yet the numbers for that particular band show an advantage for the short gears.

 

[docjohn]

I don't know if that's true, but if it is, it is primarily due to the fact that you're driving on the track, rather than to differences between the two gear set-ups. (Not that any of us needs any justification for track driving... )

Hey Ken ,what I am trying to say is that with a 5 sp/4.55 at the track I only use 3-5 gears except pit out and such,thus 1 and 2nd gears are lightly used,but on the street were you want to accelerate and play at public speeds then 2nd gets hit harder.

 

[1BADNSX]

However, I'm a bit confused by these numbers. The speed band from 90 to 100 mph is one where the stock gears (in third gear, 1.230 ratio) should have an advantage over the short gears (in fourth gear, 1.033) - yet the numbers for that particular band show an advantage for the short gears.

Ken, no the short gears only require two shifts and approach redline going to 100 mph, therefore this is one of its' best comparisons. You may be thinking of short gears combined with a shorter geared R&P needing an additional shift.

Bob

BTW, I think you were setup with the previous loaded question. I could generate a specific speed-band question to make either gearing look superior. Like the stock gears being 0.38 seconds quicker from 60-110 mph!

 

[NetViper]

I think with my Short Gears and 4.55 I have to be in 4th to hit 100mph.

 

[1BADNSX]

I think with my Short Gears and 4.55 I have to be in 4th to hit 100mph.

Yes, that is what I was pointing out. Ken was just comparing the short versus stock gears in the earlier numbers.

Bob

 

[NetViper]

I haven't driven it enough to get a really good impression, but my inital one is that the shorties and 4.55 might be a little too short. None the less, the lack of 1-2 lag is worth it alone

 

[gheba_nsx]

BTW, I think you were setup with the previous loaded question. I could generate a specific speed-band question to make either gearing look superior. Like the stock gears being 0.38 seconds quicker from 60-110 mph!

Actually I asked the question and it was no setup at all... I really was interested in those acceleration figures. 50-100 for example is the tipical Autobahn acceleration when you take off or you need to pass some big camion...

 

[goldNSX]

Actually I asked the question and it was no setup at all... I really was interested in those acceleration figures. 50-100 for example is the tipical Autobahn acceleration when you take off or you need to pass some big camion...

That was my main reason to install the parts. I'm not too much concerned about times from 0 - xy. I'm interested in times from 50 to 90 km/h or 70 to 100 km/h or 40 to 70 km/h. Out speedlimit is 80 km/h and 120 km/h on the autobahn. If the police gets you with more than 25 km/h than allowed you won't be able to drive an NSX for quite a long time. As you see, I don't have to shift at all, even with 40 km/h I'll start with 2nd because I can't easily go back to 1st at that speed. But within the ranges stated above, the shorties and final drive help really a lot.
It really depends on your driving needs. For me it was absolutly perfect. I'll post some pics of my favorite 'race track' this weekend. To enjoy and to understand my decision.

greetings,
Thomas

 

[gheba_nsx]

I cannot wait to join you on your next trip!

 

[nsxtasy]

Ken, no the short gears only require two shifts and approach redline going to 100 mph, therefore this is one of its' best comparisons. You may be thinking of short gears combined with a shorter geared R&P needing an additional shift.

Absolutely correct. I was erroneously looking figures that showed short gears with 4.55 R&P, which runs out of revs in third at 90 mph. My bad. :redface:

BTW, I think you were setup with the previous loaded question. I could generate a specific speed-band question to make either gearing look superior. Like the stock gears being 0.38 seconds quicker from 60-110 mph!

Yes, exactly. Choose an ending speed where both setups are in the same gears, like 100 mph, and the shorter gearing will be the winner. Choose a speed where both setups are in different gears, and the stock gearing will be the winner.

I find most of my time on most tracks is spent at 70-110 mph, and near both ends of that range, the stock gears are superior to the short ones.

 

[goldNSX]

Just some pictures of my 'race track', the Schwägalp. 10 km long. As you see there are a lot of sharp turns and quite short straits...

 

[NetViper]

Just some pictures of my 'race track', the Schwägalp. 10 km long. As you see there are a lot of sharp turns and quite short straits...

Nice! I wanna play! :biggrin:

 

[goldNSX]

...you need some power and good gearing to climb that hill ... and to impress the spectators (second pic).
BTW see the Europe forum for the next drive to the Schwägalp.

 

[goldNSX]

The long gears are definitly too long for this kind of track. With the shorties and final drive it's a night and day comparison.

 

[The Kid]

I absolutly love my shorties and my 4.23! It was very difficult not banging gears while I waited for the trans to break in :frown: I feel as though the car is always right near VTEC when I need it. Now we await the FI voyage :biggrin:

 

[UFO]

Considering the short gears and 4.23 for my '95. Anyone in Socal/OC with this setup? I'd like to take a ride if possible...thanks!

Mike

 

[Chris NSX]

Considering the short gears and 4.23 for my '95. Anyone in Socal/OC with this setup? I'd like to take a ride if possible...thanks!

Mike

You will need to swap the differential from 91-94 NSX for the 4.23 in your 95 transmission.

 

[swerve2007]

if anyone wants to sell their used 4.23 let me know please. reading this tread only cemented my decision to upgrade my 6sp with it. the stock gearing is very smooth and 'uneventful' but somehow lacking.

 

[sonnynhoung]

good thread, one should also consider the change depending on what track/course/road they go on the most..

if you only have tracks that are in the higher speeds then the us gears would suit you much more.


but if you run on a smaller, tighter course then i believe the jdm shorties and the shorter FD would suit that better.

so one shouldnt make the choice on which is "better" but make it on which is better suited for where you drive.