Group Buy Shorai Battery and CNC Machined Battery Tray Package - 7 pound setup - Direct bolt on

[phryxis]

I'm in. The Vatozone battery under the hood is dying a slow, Hollywood death.

NA1, black please. But I said as much in the Paypal notification. Is the Shorai charger the only way to "recover" from near-flat or will a good tender pull it out too?

Got the payment, thanks!

Unfortunately I do not know if a good tender will recover an over discharged battery. I would expect that it depends on how much it's been over discharged, and that the Shorai charger will pull it from the most discharged state.

 

[goldNSX]

No, the battery won't slide around, it's securely fastened to the oem NSX battery tray.

Nice product.

I'm running a Odyssey 680 until it's dead but it reminds me of the same question regarding the tray.

How does it behave in a crash scenario/hard impact? I also have a top mounting bar and it's suboptimal as I fear that I risk a short/fire after a hard impact. The mounting bar would be safer the other way around. Has this been adressed?

What's the expected lifetime of the battery with a tender?

 

[NSXcitement]

Just sent payment for an NA1, Black. Please advise on the cost of the charger. Thanks!

 

[scammy]

I dont know if the Shorei charger is the 'only one' that will recover this battery from dead but i have run my Shorei dead about four times since i bought it and the charger brings it back ok, it does take a while and sometimes i take the car out for a spin to give it a boost to help once it has got it up enough.
I really wanted to test this thing out so have run it dead on purpose its been in the car 14 months and is now always on the tender, its part of the reason i want the different terminals though to see if i get it to stay charged a bit longer than 10 days

 

[phryxis]

Nice product.

I'm running a Odyssey 680 until it's dead but it reminds me of the same question regarding the tray.

How does it behave in a crash scenario/hard impact? I also have a top mounting bar and it's suboptimal as I fear that I risk a short/fire after a hard impact. The mounting bar would be safer the other way around. Has this been adressed?

What's the expected lifetime of the battery with a tender?

I'm glad you asked this question, because it's very important in my opinion. We've designed the tray while keeping in mind that cars do get into accidents, and a battery is no joke in an accident scenario. This is why the tray is not as light as it could be if we just wanted to keep shaving metal off. It's a tradeoff of weight savings and strength.

Our computer simulated stress testing has gone well, but we aren't satisfied with just computer simulations. We have actually been planning a 30mph drop test, which hopefully if all goes as planned, we'll have it done by this week.

The way the battery and top bar are positioned, in a crash situation, for the tray to fail, the battery would have to tilt forward and stretch the stand-off bars to their failure point. Either that, or the battery casing would have to shatter. Also, the battery cables will provide another form of restraint if the battery is let go of the tray, I would guess they'd actually rip the terminals off if the forces were high enough for the tray to fail.

Keep in mind that we are dealing with a 5 pound battery not a 40 pound battery, so the forces are much less. I've actually been very curious about how a lead acid OEM battery behaves in a crash situation, but unfortunately have not been able to find any good data on the internet.

The reason why the bar is not rotated 90 degrees is because it would then block the charging port on the battery.

And, the battery has a 3 year warranty, but to be completely honest, I do not know the expected lifetime of the battery. I would guess that it could last 5+ years with proper battery care.

I did find an article that says the expected lifespan is 5-7 years.

LiFePO4 (also known as Lithium Iron Phosphate) batteries are a huge improvement over lead acid in weight, capacity and shelf life. The LiFePO4 batteries are the safest type of Lithium batteries as they will not overheat, and even if punctured they will not catch on fire. The cathode material in LiFePO4 batteries is not hazardous, and so poses no negative health hazards or environmental hazards. Due to the oxygen being bonded tightly to the molecule, there is no danger of the battery erupting into flames like there is with Lithium-Ion. The chemistry is so stable that LiFePO4 batteries will accept a charge from a lead-acid configured charger. Though less energy-dense than the Lithium-Ion and Lithium Polymer, Iron and Phosphate are abundant and cheaper to extract so costs are much more reasonable. LiFePO4 life expectancy is approximately 5-7 years.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Lifespan is probably 10 years on this. It is significantly longer than lead acid. As for safety, imagine a 50 pound projectile full of acid flying around versus a small 5 pound box with no liquid inside. I'll take my chances with the Shorai any day, and that bracket if anything is overbuilt. I have zero safety concerns. I know this is safer than OEM by a huge margin.

 

[Dhalsim]

Oh c'mon Dave. When was the last time you heard of someone been killed by their battery in a car crash? I would be more worried about these shorting in a crash. I believe lithium ion batteries burn like the sun when they go up. Do these have some kind of safety against this? The shorting of lithium ion batteries and how intensely hot they burn can be found all over the Internet.

 

[phryxis]

Oh c'mon Dave. When was the last time you heard of someone been killed by their battery in a car crash? I would be more worried about these shorting in a crash. I believe lithium ion batteries burn like the sun when they go up. Do these have some kind of safety against this? The shorting of lithium ion batteries and how intensely hot they burn can be found all over the Internet.

These batteries are lithium iron (LiFePO4), not ion (LiCoO2). We would not put a lithium ion battery in a car because we are aware of the inherent dangers of lithium ion. Lithium iron batteries have a different chemical makeup than lithium ion, and are much safer.

Here's part of an article I posted above:

The cathode material in LiFePO4 batteries is not hazardous, and so poses no negative health hazards or environmental hazards. Due to the oxygen being bonded tightly to the molecule, there is no danger of the battery erupting into flames like there is with Lithium-Ion. The chemistry is so stable that LiFePO4 batteries will accept a charge from a lead-acid configured charger.

- - - Updated - - -

Another tidbit:

LiFePO4 is an intrinsically safer cathode material than LiCoO2 since exothermic reactions cannot occur in batteries based on this material: LiFePO4 cells do not incinerate or explode under extreme conditions. In addition, LiFePO4 cells have a higher discharge current, are not toxic and have a much higher cycle life than LiCoO2 cells.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's a video of a Lithium Iron battery being shorted. As you can see it's the cable that is smoking, but the battery itself does not explode:

- - - Updated - - -

Here's a Lithium Iron battery being over charged to 19 volts and then punctured with a cross bow (start at 3 minutes). The guy then intentionally lights it on fire:

- - - Updated - - -

Here is another video of a Lithium Iron battery being shorted and one being shot with a gun:

 

[Dhalsim]

These batteries are lithium iron, not ion. We would not put a lithium ion battery in a car because we are aware of the inherent dangers of lithium ion. Lithium iron batteries have a different chemical makeup than lithium ion, and are much safer.

Here's part of an article I posted above:

Nice to know. Thank you for the clarification.

 

[phryxis]

Nice to know. Thank you for the clarification.

You're welcome, I'm glad you brought it up, because I'm sure others had similar questions.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Oh c'mon Dave. When was the last time you heard of someone been killed by their battery in a car crash? I would be more worried about these shorting in a crash. I believe lithium ion batteries burn like the sun when they go up. Do these have some kind of safety against this? The shorting of lithium ion batteries and how intensely hot they burn can be found all over the Internet.

The question was on the mounting bar and bracket. That's what I was addressing with the weight and internal differences. I was just about to tell you this is not lithium ion but phryxis did it already. So your were addressinf concerns over a different animal altogether. Mind you, many like braille are selling lithium ion.

 

[goldNSX]

I'm glad you asked this question, because it's very important in my opinion. We've designed the tray while keeping in mind that cars do get into accidents, and a battery is no joke in an accident scenario. This is why the tray is not as light as it could be if we just wanted to keep shaving metal off. It's a tradeoff of weight savings and strength.

Our computer simulated stress testing has gone well, but we aren't satisfied with just computer simulations. We have actually been planning a 30mph drop test, which hopefully if all goes as planned, we'll have it done by this week.

The way the battery and top bar are positioned, in a crash situation, for the tray to fail, the battery would have to tilt forward and stretch the stand-off bars to their failure point. Either that, or the battery casing would have to shatter. Also, the battery cables will provide another form of restraint if the battery is let go of the tray, I would guess they'd actually rip the terminals off if the forces were high enough for the tray to fail.

Keep in mind that we are dealing with a 5 pound battery not a 40 pound battery, so the forces are much less. I've actually been very curious about how a lead acid OEM battery behaves in a crash situation, but unfortunately have not been able to find any good data on the internet.
...

Thanks very much for your explanations. I'm glad you've adressed this possible problem and fully agree with you that a 40 pound battery creates much higher forces than one weighs 5 pound. The interesting part in the NSX is that Honda choose a steel bar for the heavy OEM battery to cope with that. I'm looking forward to see the 30 mph drop test.

 

[geometro]

Tried to resist the peer pressure...unsuccessfully.

Payment sent. Looking forward to the battery...

Thanks for supporting the NSX community.

 

[L_RAO]

Resistance is futile!

Payment sent.

NA1, polished.

Nice product. Can't wait.

 

[phryxis]

Glad to have you on board!


*ORDER UPDATE*

I spoke with Shorai and the batteries will be in stock and shipping to me by next week.

 

[JW]

The bracket looks excellent, but my question is, will the battery hold up to minus 30 or 40 degrees Celsius, as my car sits in cold storage through the winter and we do get some of these temperatures. I have left my battery in the car through the winter with a battery tender on it and have not had any problems in 3 years. Hoping this will be the same.

Joe


91 NSX Red/Black
09 VW Jetta TDI White

 

[phryxis]

The bracket looks excellent, but my question is, will the battery hold up to minus 30 or 40 degrees Celsius, as my car sits in cold storage through the winter and we do get some of these temperatures. I have left my battery in the car through the winter with a battery tender on it and have not had any problems in 3 years. Hoping this will be the same.

Hi Joe, great question, I was curious about this myself so I spoke to Shorai. The battery itself will not degrade in cold temperature, in fact, for long term storage, it's recommended to remove the battery, put it in a plastic bag, and stick it in the freezer.

In terms of starting the car when it's that cold, they said that it will start up fine as long as you follow a startup procedure. You must first turn on your head lights for a couple minutes to warm up the battery and get some juices flowing through it. After some time with your head lights on, you can try starting the car. If it doesn't start, you can wait a little bit longer and try again. An interesting property of these batteries is that they actually get stronger with each successive crank, whereas lead acid batteries get weaker.

This information piqued my interest and I will be obtaining some dry ice to try and simulate an extreme cold weather condition.

In regards to our other testing, the drop test, we've made the drop test rig but have not had the time to test it out yet.

Also, as an update, the batteries should be here early next week.

 

[Moses]

Are you a distributor for Shorai?

 

[phryxis]

Are you a distributor for Shorai?

Yes we are. I specifically became a distributor so we could provide these battery trays at a cost efficient price. I was actually extremely happy that they let us become distributors for the batteries because the pricing just would not work if we weren't able to become distributors. These batteries MSRP for $349, and our battery trays take a lot of work to produce, so we are able to build in the cost of everything as a complete package.

 

[hlakhani]

Couldn't resist. Ordered and paid today.

hlakhani, NA2, Black, No charger needed,PAID​

 

[ekin95]

^^me too. Had to have one, black bracket as well. Looking fwd to receiving it in a week or so.

 

[phryxis]

Forgot to update the thread before I left town (participants got PMed), but we'll be shipping this week!

 

[nsx27]

Hi.. Will this battery accept any battery tender? I have one that I have purchase in pep boys store. And info payment please.. Thanks Colin!

 

[simplife]

Hi.. Will this battery accept any battery tender? I have one that I have purchase in pep boys store. And info payment please.. Thanks Colin!

From post #1
Battery Tenders (If you do not start your car weekly, it is highly recommended to use a tender!):
These batteries can be used on normal battery tenders. As long as your battery tender DOES NOT have a desulfate mode, it will work with the battery. Battery Tender brand battery tenders are confirmed to work by Shorai and also through my own testing.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I keep this guy in my garage as my battery tender. I've posted a picture of a naked female hamster in front of his cage.