rotors for HPDE: slotted? Cryo ??

sdoow said:
Would be interested to see if you can you double check with Stoptech to sustantiate your statement.
You claimed you were the only company with curved, directional vanes. It's clear from their diagram that their rotors have curved, directional vanes.

sdoow said:
It's our understanding that most NA1 owners would prefer to upgrade to NA2 brakes, that's why we don't make brake for NA1, tell us if our understanding is inaccurate.
I believe that understanding is inaccurate, for several reasons. For one thing, many '91-96 NSX owners who want to upgrade are more likely to do so by way of a big brake kit with larger aftermarket calipers and rotors, rather than the '97-05 setup. Many of the rest of us are happy using the '91-96 brakes, including many of us who are using the stock 15"/16" wheels for our track tires, wheels which do not fit over the '97-05 brakes. Part of the cost of the upgrade to '97-05 brakes is not just the brake parts themselves, but also new wheels. (Stock 15"/16" wheels are easy to come by used, and are very inexpensive.) Also, track tire availability in 15"/16" sizes is much wider than for the larger wheels, and the 15"/16" sizes fit inside the car, for those of us who bring our track tires to the track while driving there on street tires. And, of course, 75-80 percent of all NSXs are the '91-96 model years with the smaller brakes. I can only guess, but I believe there would be a market for your products in the '91-96 sizes, perhaps even as large a market as for the '97-05 sizes. Since your products are also sold by (NAME OF FRAUDULENT AFTERMARKET VENDOR DELETED), you might ask that vendor how their sales of other brands of rotors break down between the '91-96 sizes vs the '97-05 sizes, to give you a better idea of the potential demand.

(Note that I refer to the brakes as the '91-96 brakes or the '97-05 brakes. NA1 and NA2 refer to the 3.0-liter and 3.2-liter engines, respectively. The '97-05 model year NSXs with automatic transmissions have the larger brakes but the smaller NA1 engines. Hence the reference by model year rather than NA1 vs NA2.)
 
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Hyrant, Thanks for the info. About how many track miles did you get before you had to turn them? How much longer do they last than OEM? I mainly run Watkins Glen and get about 10 days(150 miles each day) on my OEM rotors on my 2000 nsx. Lots of braking here. Appreciate your reply. Thanks Gary
 
Gary, since I also instruct, I don't get the maximum amount of track time per track day as at times I miss a session, or join 2 laps later or in the miidlle of session. I average about 100-125 miles depending on the track, per track day. So I am at 1500+ miles now on the set.

Except for the last track day, all track days were on street tires. What I noticed at the last track (Infineon) is that with track tires (I am running RA1) you need less braking because the limiting factor before was the street tires; the brake rotor/pad has enough torque/grip and they are running cooler now. I had to readjust my braking inputs and zones. Hence, unless the additional speed from using the RA1 tires (as I maximize their advantage) require again the same amount or more braking than before, theoretically speaking the rotors should last even longer now - all things being equal.

While RB doesn't recommend truning the rotors, I turned them about the 10-12th track day primarily because (a) I did not embed the second or third set of pads correctly as I was rushing to make it to the track - and as all have noted embedding the pads correctly is really important; and (b) one of the rear pads wore down or a debris made a minor grove in the surface (it needed about 2/1000 turn). Decided to freshen all four. I still have plenty of rotor thickness (well over minimu specs) and all the slots are still deep enough to do their cleansing.

The hairline cracks are not wide enough to catch your nail hard though you can feel them, nor are they close to the edge. But given the 90+F summer track days here, I bought an extra front pair just in case (the rears are in perfect shape). I am hoping the new 13" rotor will be ready sooner and before I replace the old one, so perhaps I can traded the new ones for the 13" with a bracket ..... :wink:
 
sdoow said:
Dali carries different brands for one piece stock replacement including RacingBrake. Being a manufacturer we like to highlight some of the important feature of how RB rotors are made differently than others so you may become a more knowledgeable buyer.

The Design – RB is probably the only manufacturer makes the front rotors directional (curve vanes) which is an upgrade from OE straight vane. We think NSX requires better cooling so we decided to make them Left/Right with two sets of tooling. Most of you know the advantage of directional rotors at the extra cost in production and inventory..
I added the bold/red/underline for emphasis.


When I first read this, I too had to do a double take because I was familiar with the Stoptech AeroRotors offering.

Then I read this post:

sdoow said:
Would be interested to see if you can you double check with Stoptech to sustantiate your statement. It's not how the vane was designed, it's how the rotors are made. Are their one piece front stock rotors (97+) made to directional (Vane configuration, not surface slotting).
Emphasis added.


I do not speak for sdoow, but upon further reading Stoptech's website, the above statements do indeed appear to be accurate if read as they were intended to be read - perhaps with a bit more emphasis on the first qualifier that the post was intended as a replacement for the OEM rotor with a one piece aftermarket rotor as well. Let's give the gentleman some room here; he is trying to offer technical support as well as products that many have clamored for.

This from the website: http://www.stoptech.com/products/rotors.shtml

These direct replacement rotors are not StopTech AeroRotors. The internal vane structure is identical to stock rotors, but they are available slotted or drilled. Red emphasis added.

DCNSX was looking for "cheap" on a limited budget rotors as disposable items, and was shopping for single piece albeit for a pre 97 though he did have newer 7 spoke OEM wheels. The offerings from Autozone, and the PowerSlot are single piece. Given his interest of doing about 8 HPDE, he definitely will benefit from a superior product as the one offered by RB - with the forthcoming bracket, which will offer him better braking and cooling and hence perhaps more longevity and savings not to mention more confidence on the track.

HTH. YMMV.

Edit: typo
 
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My comments above regarding "Stoptech rotors" are about the two-piece "Aerorotors" sold by Stoptech, and do not apply to the one-piece rotors they also sell.
 
Wow. Ask (for info) and ye shall receive. Thanks everyone.

Another question, regarding pad life: I have 50% front pads remaining (Axxis Ultimate) and will be going to a 2-day HPDE at Carolina Motorsports Park (CMP) this weekend. ...on the old OEM rotors. Taking the new Dali slotted rotors with me as a backup. I've never been to CMP but have been told it's super hard on brakes. 50% pads remaining should get me thru the weekend, don't you think? I have NO back-up pads, BTW. FYI- the rear pads are new- only 2 days HPDE on them. After this weekend, will install the new rotors and new pads. ...and Falken Azenis tires.
 
You have pads that you're planning to install after this weekend, right? Why can't you just bring those with you to the track, and install them there if you wear out the pads currently on the car?
 
DCNSX said:
Wow. Ask (for info) and ye shall receive. Thanks everyone.

Another question, regarding pad life: I have 50% front pads remaining (Axxis Ultimate) and will be going to a 2-day HPDE at Carolina Motorsports Park (CMP) this weekend. ...on the old OEM rotors. Taking the new Dali slotted rotors with me as a backup. I've never been to CMP but have been told it's super hard on brakes. 50% pads remaining should get me thru the weekend, don't you think? I have NO back-up pads, BTW. FYI- the rear pads are new- only 2 days HPDE on them. After this weekend, will install the new rotors and new pads. ...and Falken Azenis tires.

If you have enough time, my advice to you is to install the new pads and beding them in with the new rotors... then procceed to swap it back to your "old" setup. that way, in case you running out of pads, or the rotor would be able to stand the abuse anymore, you have a set of bedded in rotors and pads and 30 mins. or so, you are good to go on track again.
 
That's the problem- I don't have the new pads yet. ...and I'd have to pay overnight shipping expenses to get them here by Friday.
 
DCNSX said:
That's the problem- I don't have the new pads yet. ...and I'd have to pay overnight shipping expenses to get them here by Friday.
Other options...

- Order from someplace that can ship them today; ground shipping from anywhere except the West should reach you by Friday

- Buy stock pads at your local dealer

- If another NSX is at the event and you run out of pads, perhaps the owner might lend/sell you a set

- Maybe another NSX owner in your area can lend/sell you a set of pads
 
Oh, to answer your question...

DCNSX said:
I've never been to CMP but have been told it's super hard on brakes. 50% pads remaining should get me thru the weekend, don't you think?
Maybe, maybe not. There are a lot of variables. I haven't been to CMP and can't say anything about that track. Some people use brakes more than others. It depends on how much track time you get. Things like that.

I generally get 3-4 track events (400-600 track miles) to a set of front pads, 4-5 events (600-800 track miles) to a set of rears, fairly constant across the various kinds of pads I've tried (stock, Cobalt GT Sport, Carbotech Panther Plus, Endless CC-X, Hawk HP+, etc). Front pads come with 11 mm of material when new. All things being equal, I try to change the pads at around 3 mm, which is more than the typical 1.6 mm for street use, just because there is less pad material to absorb heat and they are more susceptible to heat problems when they get worn down. So for me, 50 percent means 7 mm of pad material. If they are 5 mm or less, I wouldn't expect them to last an entire event, and 6 mm is borderline.

But you can always just go and try it; if you run out of pads early, it just means you miss a track session or two.
 
DCNSX said:
That's the problem- I don't have the new pads yet. ...and I'd have to pay overnight shipping expenses to get them here by Friday.

You are in Chapel Hill, NC. Carbotech is in Shelby, NC. I am sure they can get you a set in by Friday. Ask for Matt or Dan and tell them I referred you. They are sponsoring our Infineon track event on 7/21.

Carbotech USA, Inc.
2407 South Post Rd.
Shelby, NC 28150

Local (704) 481-8500
Toll-Free (877) 899-5024
Fax (704) 481-8554
 
OK- Even though I'm a cheap b@stard, I opted for the 3-day shipping and will have new pads by Friday. Better safe than sorry. Not enough time to bed them in on the new rotors, but I'll now have both pads and rotors to take with me to CMP.

Thanks, guys !!!

PS- that was my 500th post! only 19,000 more to go to catch Ken !!!!!
 
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