RIP Ronald Reagan

[nkb]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R.R. and his legacy

You are your liberal buddies come in here screaming about how pitiful Reagan really was in a thread dedicated to mourning his death and honoring him as a President.

I like the way you simplify things for yourself by labeling me and others as liberals, because we happen to point out Reagan's shortcomings. In fact, I have no political affiliation, and I vote based on the best candidate, not a party affiliation. But if it's easier for you to pigeonhole people who disagree with you, then knock yourself out.

There was no need to turn this into a political debate but I guess some of you felt it was absolutely necessary to do so.

It wasn't a political debate until you turned it into one. Weren't you the one to post "Damn Democrats"? I believe that was the first mention of anything political, so you have yourself to thank for that. Before that, it was just a difference in opinion on whether someone with the shortcomings of Reagan can be considered a great man.

I'm simply stating that when the next liberal President dies and you are either grieving or wish to acknowledge him as a decent human being, I hope someone completely rips him apart and turns what is supposed to be a peaceful rememberance of him into a screaming reality of how morally, ethically and politically shallow this man really was. Same goes for anyone that you happen to have had respect for that passes away.

Maybe that is the difference between you and I. I have no problem recognizing the faults of people, whether I like them or not. Even though I think Clinton did a pretty decent job as president, he is morally despicable, and I would never label him a great man either. If someone did, I would argue with them also. I don't give a rat's ass what the political affiliation is.

To me, Reagan was a hero.

If you consider him a hero, more power to you. That is your opinion, and you are obviously entitled to it.
Some of us choose to view his legacy from the "bigger picture" perspective, which has to include all his actions.

If you can't handle dissenting opinions, maybe you shouldn't post on an open forum.

 

[steveny]

Great quote Steve! Does anyone else have some quotes they remember?

I remember when he was shot, and asked the doctors if "they were republicans"? — Classic Regan!

I just love that quote because when he said it you knew he meant it. The words rolled off his lips as if he was dropping a sledge hammer.

 

[nsxtasy]

It wasn't a political debate until you turned it into one. Weren't you the one to post "Damn Democrats"? I believe that was the first mention of anything political, so you have yourself to thank for that. Before that, it was just a difference in opinion on whether someone with the shortcomings of Reagan can be considered a great man.
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If you can't handle dissenting opinions, maybe you shouldn't post on an open forum.

Well, we've known for quite a while that Brian will turn the most insignificant thing - say, a play in a baseball game - and claim that it is the world's greatest travesty, and try to argue dissenting opinions into oblivion. As has been previously suggested...

You sure vent often.

I think we need a Rants and Raves section of NSX Prime.

 

[lemansnsx]

Great quote Steve! Does anyone else have some quotes they remember?

I remember when he was shot, and asked the doctors if "they were republicans"? — Classic Regan!

Ronald Reagan speaking at the Republican National Convention, 1992
When you see all that rhetorical smoke billowing up from the Democrats, well ladies and gentleman, I'd follow the example of their nominee; don't inhale.

 

[NSXLuvr]

Re: R.R

R.R = $ 4 billion debt, Iron-Contra scandal, helping governments of El Salvador and Guatemala kill and terrorize its own citizens, invasion of Granada, terrorizing Nicaragua, helping "freedom fighters" like Bin Laden by training them, giving them weapons and support to fight infidels.

Don't forget-

1. Funding Hussain during the Iran-Iraq war.
2. Closing down Psychiatric hospitals for the mentally disabled. This one move led to a HUGE increase in the homeless in USA. In the early 90's up to 40% of the Homeless walking the streets in good old USA came from these mental hospitals.
3. Running the Country while having Alzheimers for the last 2+ years. I don't know if this is impressive or pathetic.

 

[dlongo]

In the words of Richard Allen:

In January 1977, I visited Ronald Reagan in Los Angeles. During our four-hour conversation, he said many memorable things, but none more significant than this. "My idea of American policy toward the Soviet Union is simple, and some would say simplistic," he said. "It is this: We win and they lose. What do you think of that?"


hmm. How come nobody before thought of that?

 

[Tom Larkins]

Re: Re: R.R

Don't forget-

1. Funding Hussain during the Iran-Iraq war.
2. Closing down Psychiatric hospitals for the mentally disabled. This one move led to a HUGE increase in the homeless in USA. In the early 90's up to 40% of the Homeless walking the streets in good old USA came from these mental hospitals.
3. Running the Country while having Alzheimers for the last 2+ years. I don't know if this is impressive or pathetic.

Good to see folks are still at it! Don't forget to blame him for anything to do w/ozone layer, depletion of rain forests, the first space shuttle explosion, hurricane Floyd, fixing the 200th win for Richard Petty at Daytona, causing the aids virus all by himself and while your at it throw some dirt on Nancy too. Don't want to forget her while your at it. Somewhat paraphrasing the last sentence in your above mentioned spew.

"I don't know if what you state is impressive or pathetic"

 

[lemansnsx]

Re: Re: Re: R.R

"I don't know if what you state is impressive or pathetic"

Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic that certain people on this forum were so self-centered and self-important that they insisted on being heard by hijacking what should have remained a simple memorial tribute to a great American. I'm on the edge of tears watching the service in the Capitol and apalled that members of this forum didn't have the common decency to know when it was appropriate to just keep their opinions to themselves.

 

[Edwardo]

I have been watching the memorial as well. Ronald Reagan was a great man and I am sad to see him go.

I find it very sad that there are people posting in this thread who want to play politics. If you want to criticize Ronald Reagan's policies, that is perfectly fine. Just click the button that says, "New Thread".

I have put a couple more people on my ignore list as a result of this.

 

[lemansnsx]

I find it very sad that there are people posting in this thread who want to play politics. If you want to criticize Ronald Reagan's policies, that is perfectly fine. Just click the button that says, "New Thread".

I have put a couple more people on my ignore list as a result of this.

FINALLY! Someone who gets it! Thank you! Ignore list, huh? Capital idea!

 

[Ryanmcd2]

Maybe people will slam you guys too when you die. Nothing like kicking someone when they are down, it easy that way right?

 

[nkb]

I find it very sad that there are people posting in this thread who want to play politics.

Edwardo,
It wasn't a question of playing politics. As mentioned before, the person who turned this into a political debate was the originator himself.

This was just a case of some people pointing out that they didn't agree with Ronald Reagan being labeled as a great man, and gave their reasons. Isn't that what an open forum is for, an exchange of ideas and opinions? What a boring place the web would be if you were only allowed to post when you agreed with someone.

Nobody is saying that they are happy Reagan is dead. Nobody is saying not to mourn him. Nobody is saying that they don't feel sorry for his family. All that is being said is, before proclaiming someone to be great or a hero, look at the big picture.

 

[nkb]

Maybe people will slam you guys too when you die. Nothing like kicking someone when they are down, it easy that way right?

When I die (or while I'm alive for that matter), I really don't care what strangers on an Internet forum say about me. All I care about is what people that actually know me say.

Offering dissenting opinions, backed by undisputed facts, is "kicking someone when they are down"?

 

[Brian2by2]

Edwardo,
It wasn't a question of playing politics. As mentioned before, the person who turned this into a political debate was the originator himself.

This was just a case of some people pointing out that they didn't agree with Ronald Reagan being labeled as a great man, and gave their reasons. Isn't that what an open forum is for, an exchange of ideas and opinions? What a boring place the web would be if you were only allowed to post when you agreed with someone.

Nobody is saying that they are happy Reagan is dead. Nobody is saying not to mourn him. Nobody is saying that they don't feel sorry for his family. All that is being said is, before proclaiming someone to be great or a hero, look at the big picture.

Hmm...just because I was the *second* person to bring party affiliation into this topic does not mean that political debate wasn't already made an issue.

R.R = $ 4 billion debt, Iron-Contra scandal, helping governments of El Salvador and Guatemala kill and terrorize its own citizens, invasion of Granada, terrorizing Nicaragua, helping "freedom fighters" like Bin Laden by training them, giving them weapons and support to fight infidels. Yea he is a real hero. He is going to the same place Nixon and a lot of lawyers generally go.

This thread is an obituary to express remorse for the family. "My thoughts and prayers..." "We mourn Reagan" "Its a shame to see him go..." but not "He's going to the same place as Nixon and lawyers". Hell, I would be outright FURIOUS if I were one of the many lawyers on this site. Who the hell is this saxon guy to determine the fate of Nixon, Reagan, and "most lawyers"??

And why is it that you mention only Nixon and Reagan? What about Kennedy, who couldn't keep it in his pants and is responsible for turning South Florida into the capitol of Cuba?? Or FDR who 'supposedly' knew about Pearl Harbor and let 2000+ Americans die so he could goto war?? Or Truman, who ordered 70,000 people dead with the drop of a bomb?? Or Clinton, who cheated on his wife several times and lied under oath to the whole world?? Skipped those guys in your "going to the same place" condemnation.

 

[nkb]

Hmm...just because I was the *second* person to bring party affiliation into this topic does not mean that political debate wasn't already made an issue.

Well, I still say you were first, unless you are counting Tom Larkins reference to the "Al Gore/John Dean rally". I still don't know who John Dean is.

Nevertheless, you are the one posting things like "Damn Democrats", referring to saxon's "political views" when he was listing Nixon's missteps, accusing Tom239 of a "POLITICAL DEBATE" when mentioning the Reagan administration's ties to Hussein and bin-Laden, bringing up Reagan being "supported by 95% of the Republicans as well as quite a few liberals", giving your reason for why you are a Republican, and, of course, labeling everyone as "You are your liberal buddies" because they pointed out Reagan's shortcomings.

I have pointed out your attempts to turn this into something political. If, as you claim, the dissenters were doing it also, you should have no trouble backing that up.

This thread is an obituary to express remorse for the family. "My thoughts and prayers..." "We mourn Reagan" "Its a shame to see him go..."

As I stated before, if that had been the posts, I don't think anyone would have piped up. It was the proclamations of greatness that rubbed some people the wrong way.

but not "He's going to the same place as Nixon and lawyers". Hell, I would be outright FURIOUS if I were one of the many lawyers on this site. Who the hell is this saxon guy to determine the fate of Nixon, Reagan, and "most lawyers"??

I don't agree with that statement either, and I wouldn't have made it. But, it's tough to argue with a lot of his (and other people's) other points.

 

[Brian2by2]

Well, I still say you were first, unless you are counting Tom Larkins reference to the "Al Gore/John Dean rally". I still don't know who John Dean is.

Nevertheless, you are the one posting things like "Damn Democrats", referring to saxon's "political views" when he was listing Nixon's missteps, accusing Tom239 of a "POLITICAL DEBATE" when mentioning the Reagan administration's ties to Hussein and bin-Laden, bringing up Reagan being "supported by 95% of the Republicans as well as quite a few liberals", giving your reason for why you are a Republican, and, of course, labeling everyone as "You are your liberal buddies" because they pointed out Reagan's shortcomings.

I have pointed out your attempts to turn this into something political. If, as you claim, the dissenters were doing it also, you should have no trouble backing that up.
As I stated before, if that had been the posts, I don't think anyone would have piped up. It was the proclamations of greatness that rubbed some people the wrong way.
I don't agree with that statement either, and I wouldn't have made it. But, it's tough to argue with a lot of his (and other people's) other points.

You made that claim that I was the first one to make this a political debate...I totally disagree. Instigating a political debate would make saxon just as guilty as my saying "damn democrats". What the hell did he expect posting garbage like that in a peaceful thread that is dedicated to honoring a former leader?

 

[nsxtasy]

Well, I still say you were first, unless you are counting Tom Larkins reference to the "Al Gore/John Dean rally". I still don't know who John Dean is.

You must be too young to remember Watergate. John Dean was White House Counsel to President Richard Nixon, warned him about the seriousness of the Watergate cover-up, and testified to that effect to the House Judiciary Committee that was holding hearings preliminary to bringing impeachment charges against the President. You can read a thumbnail biography about him here.

I don't know why he would be holding a rally with Al Gore, though.

You made that claim that I was the first one to make this a political debate...I totally disagree.

I agree with nkb, that you (Brian) turned this into a political debate, with the first mention of political parties combined with your usual ranting approach. Heck, nkb is one of the few people being reasonable in this discussion, IMHO. Everyone else seems to be taking partisan shots, especially those (like you) who are complaining about others taking partisan shots.

 

[nkb]

You must be too young to remember Watergate. John Dean was White House Counsel to President Richard Nixon, warned him about the seriousness of the Watergate cover-up, and testified to that effect to the House Judiciary Committee that was holding hearings preliminary to bringing impeachment charges against the President. You can read a thumbnail biography about him here.

I don't know why he would be holding a rally with Al Gore, though.

You're right, Nixon's presidency is a very vague memory. I was just a young kid then.

But, I think Tom Larkins was trying to say Howard Dean, and either got mixed up with John Kerry's first name, or had the name John Dean in his head. That would explain the Al Gore rally reference. Of course, I am just speculating.

I'm sorry if I upset anyone with my opinions. I'll stop posting to this thread, and you guys can remember Ronald Reagan any way you choose.

 

[nsxtasy]

I think Tom Larkins was trying to say Howard Dean

If so, it's easy to tell when his (Howard's) fifteen minutes of fame are over - when people no longer remember his first name.

I'll stop posting to this thread

No! Then we're left without anyone being reasonable here...

 

[Tom Larkins]

Yes, I was Howard Dean......my mistake

I can't imagine what people would have thought if instead of using John Deans name I would have said Deepthroat. Other than Ken, I'll guess few people would know whom that was or its historical significance in the Presidency.

 

[nsxtasy]

I can't imagine what people would have thought if instead of using John Deans name I would have said Deepthroat. Other than Ken, I'll guess few people would know whom that was

Linda Lovelace???

 

[ajnsx]

I'll always remember him from the time i started reading the American 'mad' comics Speaking of time they have some nice articles on him at the moment on their website.

He did some good stuff, he did some bad stuff, now he's dead, put it to bed.

Long live west wing!

 

[huckster]

ken, you crack me up

and yes, i can remember BOTH Deans and BOTH deep throats...