Just saw your reply ffffanman on the original thread! Thanks for the advice! I just want to be VERY thorough and careful, as I want to take every precaution out there!
Thanks everyone!
Thanks everyone!
Restoring a "barn" '91, need some friendly advice!
- Thread starter Ray.K
- Start date
Ray, those prices don't look too bad to me. The timing belt actually looks like a deal. (read what others have paid on this forum) The oil change looks a little high. I do my own for $30.00.
I believe seat belts may have a life-time warranty as they are a safety device. (especially if safety recalled). Take a look at the document I sent you, my seat belts were done, as well there was a recall on the A/C (that they can't do anymore because it is R12)
What about the fuel in the gas tank? Can you siyphin out the bulk of the fuel and refill with new?
here is a list of TSB for the car.
http://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Technical_Service_Bulletins
Is the car in the transmission snap ring range? Transmissions #3542 - #5978
Glad to hear this isn't going to be too costly to get it rolling!
Looks like you are kinda stuck paying the high prices.
One thing I noticed is that the water pump and tensioner is not mentioned here - make sure it's included, if it is included in the price that is a good deal, the way I understand it (1125 + 200 for coolant = 1325)
So water pump is additional to the quote of $1125 + 200 for coolant? Making your total for water pump/ timing belt and coolant (coolant is required for TB/WP job) $1805?? and then taxes?
NO WAY $80 for coolant hose set (unless it's only for one or two hoses out of the 23 or so needed.
Tensioner should be replaced but is not mandatory although I do it.
PM me if you want to go over the details.
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Yes, so total for TB/WP + one hose (as per TSB-92-030) + coolant = $1885 + taxes. He did mention that there would be some overlap in labour costs but at least $1885. They never mentioned anything about replacing the tensioner.
I saw on another thread that you're the goto guy for TB/WP+tensioner service in Vancouver; Thanks for your input, much appreciated!
I saw on another thread that you're the goto guy for TB/WP+tensioner service in Vancouver; Thanks for your input, much appreciated!
I had a bunch of work done in June at Dilawri Acura in Regina, Sask. I did the timing belt, timing belt tensioner, water pump, harmonic balancer, thermostat, both drive belts, transmission flush and change fluid, brake flush and change fluid, a cooling system flush and change fluid and last but not least had the valves adjusted for a grand total of $$$$3303.37
and this includes a 10% discount from the dealer. After all is said and done, I do rest a lot easier with these maintenance issues taken care of.
09 VW Jetta TDI
91 NSX Red/Black
and this includes a 10% discount from the dealer. After all is said and done, I do rest a lot easier with these maintenance issues taken care of.09 VW Jetta TDI
91 NSX Red/Black
Finally got the NSX home and some thoughts come to mind.
1) Power: Hmm... My daily car is an RX8 and it seems that it has more "go" than when I step on it than the NSX. When I'm waiting for a left turn or accelerating from 1st gear on a red->green light, I need to give a lot of gas (relatively) to get it go and even then, acceleration is somewhat slow up until 3000-4000 rpms. Is there something wrong with the engine? I haven't pushed the car really hard since I still have a long trek back to Vancouver.
2) Loud: WOW I can really hear the engine behind me! The 20 year old engine sounds like it's working really really hard when I'm accelerating from a full stop.
3) Heat: After driving for about 45 min, the engine seems quite hot. I can feel heat just by hovering my hand over the glass engine hood. I went back to check on it 1 hour later and about 60% of the heat had dissipated
Point 3 is a particular concern since I'll be driving about 12 hours straight to Vancouver am concerned about the engine overheating.
Also, it was nice meeting you Marty!
1) Power: Hmm... My daily car is an RX8 and it seems that it has more "go" than when I step on it than the NSX. When I'm waiting for a left turn or accelerating from 1st gear on a red->green light, I need to give a lot of gas (relatively) to get it go and even then, acceleration is somewhat slow up until 3000-4000 rpms. Is there something wrong with the engine? I haven't pushed the car really hard since I still have a long trek back to Vancouver.
2) Loud: WOW I can really hear the engine behind me! The 20 year old engine sounds like it's working really really hard when I'm accelerating from a full stop.
3) Heat: After driving for about 45 min, the engine seems quite hot. I can feel heat just by hovering my hand over the glass engine hood. I went back to check on it 1 hour later and about 60% of the heat had dissipated
Point 3 is a particular concern since I'll be driving about 12 hours straight to Vancouver am concerned about the engine overheating.
Also, it was nice meeting you Marty!
Its been driving me crazy that you don't let any of us here in Edmonton come see the car, start it or actually hands on help you with it.
I would suggest things would go better if you did.
Warren is always available as I am and there is Dan and Albert in St. Albert.
Your going to have to break down and let us into your life.
I feel very strongly about our cars and the relationship we all have with other owners and support, advice and friendship from all the folks on Prime.
I live in Capilano and work on 75st by the Whitemud.
Trev
I would suggest things would go better if you did.
Warren is always available as I am and there is Dan and Albert in St. Albert.
Your going to have to break down and let us into your life.
I feel very strongly about our cars and the relationship we all have with other owners and support, advice and friendship from all the folks on Prime.
I live in Capilano and work on 75st by the Whitemud.
Trev
Ray, I would say something isn't right.
Your acceleration description sounds just plain wrong.
Heat should not be an issue. I ran mine on the track last week and after 25 min of real hard driving the car didn't even seem to heat up at all.
Do you want to compare it to mine?
Didn't the boys at Westside Acura service the car? Why would they have let it go out the shop door without a small test drive to make sure everything was working well...?
Perhaps the heat issue is just normal NSX unfamiliarity with how the car operates. My NSX's have always been a little warm to the touch outside of the engine cover etc. How has the heat / temp been on the console?
The power issue seems odd...
Ray I'd take both Trev and Warren up on the offer of assistance on how your car is running. Both know NSX's extremely well.
Perhaps the heat issue is just normal NSX unfamiliarity with how the car operates. My NSX's have always been a little warm to the touch outside of the engine cover etc. How has the heat / temp been on the console?
The power issue seems odd...
Ray I'd take both Trev and Warren up on the offer of assistance on how your car is running. Both know NSX's extremely well.
Just got back from a taking it out for a spin and chalk it up to inexperience with NSXs for not being able to unleash it's power. The pedal is a lot stiffer (along with everything else in the '91) so once I give it a lot more gas it seems to be fine. I think the acceleration power is a non-issue.
2 issues the mechanic did note down:
1) VTEC: The mechanic did note that he didn't notice the VTEC kicking in when it should have, something which I admit I have no experience with at all. He mentioned the performance is OK but not great.
2) Idling: There is an issue with the idle when the vehicle is warmed up. After driving for about 45 min, I noticed the engine sounded it was "breathing"; like regular recurrent loud-quiet-loud-quiet humming of the engine while in idle. His preliminary report suggests a new idle control valve is required.
Overall I think it'll get me to where I'm going so I'll get these issues checked out once I'm back home.
2 issues the mechanic did note down:
1) VTEC: The mechanic did note that he didn't notice the VTEC kicking in when it should have, something which I admit I have no experience with at all. He mentioned the performance is OK but not great.
2) Idling: There is an issue with the idle when the vehicle is warmed up. After driving for about 45 min, I noticed the engine sounded it was "breathing"; like regular recurrent loud-quiet-loud-quiet humming of the engine while in idle. His preliminary report suggests a new idle control valve is required.
Overall I think it'll get me to where I'm going so I'll get these issues checked out once I'm back home.
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Firstly thanks for all your input, I greatly appreciate it! Secondly I hope I didn't rub anyone the wrong way by not accepting offers for help; I'm just very inclined on attempting things by myself. I guess this is remnant behaviour from having to have to take care of things after my dad passed.
On a positive note, I did speak with WarrenW and he does have a wealth of knowledge and looking back I agree things would have been much smoother if I had accepted help from fellow NSXprime community members earlier.
On a positive note, I did speak with WarrenW and he does have a wealth of knowledge and looking back I agree things would have been much smoother if I had accepted help from fellow NSXprime community members earlier.
I got the opportunity tonight to see Ray's car. Pretty nice seeing a 20 year old "new" car. 1400 kms (<900 miles)
Get this.. The leather inside still smells like new leather, and there isn't a mark on the seats!
However it was not all drool and gawking.....
I believe the car has a problem... Like Ray stated, the car has limited power. The idle is rough and when the peddle is pushed there isn't any power.
Once in a while you can see the ECU hunting trying to find a good idle. It revs up and down from 600 to 1200 RPM, then settles at 800, then after acceleration, it repeats the pattern. The car seems to be burning rich as well. There is a bit of hesitation when the peddle is first pushed as well.
My first 2 cent guess, is the dealer missed a cog on the timing belt.
Ray let me take it for a short drive and definitely something is really wrong. A 1.6 litre CIVIC has more power.
Anyone? Ray would like to head back to Vancouver soon, like tomorrow. I told him to call the dealer back and get it look at ASAP.
Help is required.
Get this.. The leather inside still smells like new leather, and there isn't a mark on the seats!
However it was not all drool and gawking.....
I believe the car has a problem... Like Ray stated, the car has limited power. The idle is rough and when the peddle is pushed there isn't any power.
Once in a while you can see the ECU hunting trying to find a good idle. It revs up and down from 600 to 1200 RPM, then settles at 800, then after acceleration, it repeats the pattern. The car seems to be burning rich as well. There is a bit of hesitation when the peddle is first pushed as well.
My first 2 cent guess, is the dealer missed a cog on the timing belt.
Ray let me take it for a short drive and definitely something is really wrong. A 1.6 litre CIVIC has more power.
Anyone? Ray would like to head back to Vancouver soon, like tomorrow. I told him to call the dealer back and get it look at ASAP.
Help is required.
I found some a couple of other threads about the erratic/fluctuating idle problem:
http://nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47420&highlight=idling+problem
http://nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29644&highlight=idle
some possible causes:
1) vacuum leak
2) dirty throttle body
3) faulty idle control valve
4) leaky fuel injector (probably not in my case but someone traced this as his root cause)
I'll take a look at the throttle body tomorrow.
I also had the pleasure of riding in Warren's '91 and I swear the difference in power was like night and day.
http://nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47420&highlight=idling+problem
http://nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29644&highlight=idle
some possible causes:
1) vacuum leak
2) dirty throttle body
3) faulty idle control valve
4) leaky fuel injector (probably not in my case but someone traced this as his root cause)
I'll take a look at the throttle body tomorrow.
I also had the pleasure of riding in Warren's '91 and I swear the difference in power was like night and day.
unlike the other honda VTEC cars, the engineers matched the torque curves of the 2 cam profiles to give a seamless changeover when VTEC kicks in. the enginneers wanted a smooth transition, a smooth power delivery throughout the range.
on the boy-racer VTEC cars, civics etc,, the engineers designed it so the first cam profile gives a power dip before the vtec cam comes in, so the boy-racers can feel the vtec kick!
it's the little differences that show they thought about it!
Ray,
I talked to Ben at Daisy auto out of Rockville MD.
He agrees that the timing belt is not right. Have the dealership pull the valve covers to check the cam timing marks at TDC.
Get that car back to the dealership.
Other things that need to be done to this car before your drive to Vancouver
- Fuel filter replace. (check you bill)
- The Fuel Injectors need to be either replaced or refurbished at RC
Thermostat needs to be replaced as they stick if not exercised. Yours has not moved in 15 years. (this could kill your engine)
- Fast idle valve may have an issue, part is hard to find. Ben can help with that
- Coolant sensor should be replaced or cleaned up.
I will send you a PM of Ben's number. He has offered to help. You should call him and if necessary have the dealer call him as well.
I talked to Ben at Daisy auto out of Rockville MD.
He agrees that the timing belt is not right. Have the dealership pull the valve covers to check the cam timing marks at TDC.
Get that car back to the dealership.
Other things that need to be done to this car before your drive to Vancouver
- Fuel filter replace. (check you bill)
- The Fuel Injectors need to be either replaced or refurbished at RC
Thermostat needs to be replaced as they stick if not exercised. Yours has not moved in 15 years. (this could kill your engine)
- Fast idle valve may have an issue, part is hard to find. Ben can help with that
- Coolant sensor should be replaced or cleaned up.
I will send you a PM of Ben's number. He has offered to help. You should call him and if necessary have the dealer call him as well.
A possible cause of hunting idle and power loss is cam timing - was the timing belt job done? This is worth checking if nothing else can be found. An easy way to check this is to check vacuum - target is at least 20 inches of mercury or compression test - if timing is off, you will see one cylinder bank down compared to the other.
-- Chris
Having spoke with redbird92 and WarrenW their consensus is that the car shouldn't be driven in it's current status, so I think the safest bet is to have it shipped to Vancouver instead of driving it. Once it arrives safely I'll have the luxury of time to get it back to 100% shape and speed. Right now I'm racing against time to bring the car back before the once-only insurance expires.
I'd notify the dealer who did the timing belt that there's potentially a significant problem with their work before anyone else goes in there. If you're going for recourse (refund, shipping to can, etc...) they may want to be consulted. Also if something goes boom you don't want others to have touched it.
What I would ask of the TB dealer:
Bring it to them, tell them to fix it, have them ship it to Van WITH A DEALER PLATE under THEIR insurance if you're bumping against time limits on your temp stuff once they fix their work. Trev can check the car to make sure it's good before they send it out.
What I would ask of the TB dealer:
Bring it to them, tell them to fix it, have them ship it to Van WITH A DEALER PLATE under THEIR insurance if you're bumping against time limits on your temp stuff once they fix their work. Trev can check the car to make sure it's good before they send it out.
I concur on Dave's advice here.
As the dealer did a lot of work (timing belt too I presume due to year not mileage interval) you need to make sure they are able to rectify the issue etc. Heaven knows but they may have screwed up this service and as you've had these issues after collecting the car I wonder if they even did a short road test or simply ran the car in the service bay only.
If I were in your shoes Ray I'd contact your insurance company and simply get the additional insurance coverage so that the Acura dealer can transport the car after its fixed. Don't leave this up to others.
