I was wondering if anyone has changed their own t-belt on their NSX? How was it? What is the best way to get to it? Any info would be appreciated. I have changed t-belts on other cars but I wanted to know how it is on the NSX. Thanks.
Replacing Timing Belt Yourself?
- Thread starter Twilightcall
- Start date
I was wondering the same thing, timming belt/vale adj. I have built DOHC engines before and adjusted valves in other cars and was thinking of tackling this over the holidays. Any input from those who have done it would be appreciated. PS my friend is the parts manager at an Acura dealer so I get parts for 3% above cost so I save alot of $$$ doing it myself.
- Joined
- 19 March 2003
- Messages
- 3,442
tb change
I have checked on this aswell, my self has done many and various engine duties on DOHc honda motors. I have the NSX Service Manual and looking at the directions. It seems quite different. I Noticed that when changing the belt it requires the motor to be at a 5 degree angle, many thing to be taken off. Not a job for the faint, would take a person quite some time if not mechanically well familiar with the car. I would just take it to a NSX Tech. My next service I would be doing the change but on a extra NSX motor I will have on the side. If anyone has done this I would like to know what experiences you had changing the belts. Dos and Donts.
I have checked on this aswell, my self has done many and various engine duties on DOHc honda motors. I have the NSX Service Manual and looking at the directions. It seems quite different. I Noticed that when changing the belt it requires the motor to be at a 5 degree angle, many thing to be taken off. Not a job for the faint, would take a person quite some time if not mechanically well familiar with the car. I would just take it to a NSX Tech. My next service I would be doing the change but on a extra NSX motor I will have on the side. If anyone has done this I would like to know what experiences you had changing the belts. Dos and Donts.
Certainly not for the novice, but it sounds like you’ve done enough to handle it. The factory manual instructions are adequate but tips from someone like DanO or Larry B. would no doubt be helpful. Some of the tough parts are getting the crank pulley loose and putting the new belt on with the timing right on all four cams at the same time. The most important thing is to not rush it. You may find that you need a new seal here or bolt there, so if you can’t do without it for a couple days then don’t try it.
Adjusting the valves is a bit tedious and best done with the special tool listed in the manual, but it is certainly something you could do.
Adjusting the valves is a bit tedious and best done with the special tool listed in the manual, but it is certainly something you could do.
- Joined
- 10 November 2002
- Messages
- 1,124
Timing Belt etc.
I have previously read in these forums that replacing the water pump and timing belt is technically difficult and an access nightmare, plus requires some specialty tools. IE, not for the faint of technical skills or light of toolbox. Accordingly, I took my car to the dealer today for a 60k service, and to check to see if the timing belt had previously been replaced prior to my owning the car; happily, they reported back that it had been. However...they also advised me that the rear valve cover gasket and a cam plug were leaking oil and needed replacing. The tech advised that it would be best for them to PULL THE ENGINE in order to access the rear head, replace the gasket and cam plug, adjust the valves, etc. He claimed they were in the habit of doing it that way just for the normal 60k servicing. Needless to say, this freaked me out a little but the oil leaks ARE for real, they seem to be a common occurrence. Supposed solid price quote for 60k service plus fixing oil leaks plus troubleshooting SRS light plus front brakes and rotors plus a few other minor things is $2000. At least the timing belt had already been replaced...
I have previously read in these forums that replacing the water pump and timing belt is technically difficult and an access nightmare, plus requires some specialty tools. IE, not for the faint of technical skills or light of toolbox. Accordingly, I took my car to the dealer today for a 60k service, and to check to see if the timing belt had previously been replaced prior to my owning the car; happily, they reported back that it had been. However...they also advised me that the rear valve cover gasket and a cam plug were leaking oil and needed replacing. The tech advised that it would be best for them to PULL THE ENGINE in order to access the rear head, replace the gasket and cam plug, adjust the valves, etc. He claimed they were in the habit of doing it that way just for the normal 60k servicing. Needless to say, this freaked me out a little but the oil leaks ARE for real, they seem to be a common occurrence. Supposed solid price quote for 60k service plus fixing oil leaks plus troubleshooting SRS light plus front brakes and rotors plus a few other minor things is $2000. At least the timing belt had already been replaced...
Re: Timing Belt etc.
I never said it was easy. That's a reasonable description, but it isn't by any means too hard for an experienced DIY type. Dropping the engine is not uncommon because it does greatly simplify everything else, but I wouldn't recommend it for a first-timer even if they have the lift. It just adds to the number of things you can screw up. Heck, I pulled the whole rear head with the engine in the car.
Jett said:
I never said it was easy. That's a reasonable description, but it isn't by any means too hard for an experienced DIY type. Dropping the engine is not uncommon because it does greatly simplify everything else, but I wouldn't recommend it for a first-timer even if they have the lift. It just adds to the number of things you can screw up. Heck, I pulled the whole rear head with the engine in the car.
You can check www.danoland.com/nsxgarage for some unique perspective on the results of botching a DIY t-belt change. (there’s also a DIY valve adjustment write up)
It is possible to DIY the t-belt, but for those without much experience changing t-belts, the means will have to be an end in itself. In other words, if someone really has a passion for working on things mechanical and can derive enjoyment from the endeavor, then this project can be that fulfilling experience you’ve been longing for…
Concerning the t-belt DIY, there are only a few things that are problems for a somewhat experienced DIYer (I’m sure there are a few more that I didn't think of)
1 the crankshaft pulley bolt
2 the engine tilt
3 the getting of the damn t-belt covers out and in
4 the getting of the belt on and aligned
the rest is just busy work in a confined area.
Concerning the list above:
1 there is a special tool that holds the crankshaft in place and when used in conjunction with 3/4" breaker bar and pipe, the bolt will give way.
2 two engine mounts need to be removed so a floor jack and a home-made jig (a few 2x4 cut and screwed together worked for me) can ever-so-slightly tilt the engine to allow more room for:
3 THE PUZZLE. So you solved the The Rubic's Cube when you were younger? No? Well, the NSX engineers did, and they made a more challenging puzzle just for us. The goal: to figure out how to get the three t-belt covers out...and back in; the geometric permutations are only limited by one's own sanity but there is only one combination that works.
4 getting the t-belt back on and aligned is pretty well documented in the Service Manual and is not too difficult to do after one's done it a few times
other tidbits: if you're going to change the water pump then expect a little bit of a coolant mess and expect to refill and bleed the coolant system. There will be a little bit of an oil mess too b/c the oil cooler will be partially removed.
The t-belt covers require some funky tool combinations and twister-like maneuvering to get some of the bolts off. Note: while trying to remove one of these pesky little bolts I lacerated a tendon on my index finger knuckle and had to do the rest of the procedure one-handed while my tendon healed in an arm cast.
If you're really nice, Larry might lend you some helpful pins to help set the cam shafts and he may even provide you with the magic key that allows for easy t-belt cover removal/installation.
HtH,
DanO
It is possible to DIY the t-belt, but for those without much experience changing t-belts, the means will have to be an end in itself. In other words, if someone really has a passion for working on things mechanical and can derive enjoyment from the endeavor, then this project can be that fulfilling experience you’ve been longing for…
Concerning the t-belt DIY, there are only a few things that are problems for a somewhat experienced DIYer (I’m sure there are a few more that I didn't think of)
1 the crankshaft pulley bolt
2 the engine tilt
3 the getting of the damn t-belt covers out and in
4 the getting of the belt on and aligned
the rest is just busy work in a confined area.
Concerning the list above:
1 there is a special tool that holds the crankshaft in place and when used in conjunction with 3/4" breaker bar and pipe, the bolt will give way.
2 two engine mounts need to be removed so a floor jack and a home-made jig (a few 2x4 cut and screwed together worked for me) can ever-so-slightly tilt the engine to allow more room for:
3 THE PUZZLE. So you solved the The Rubic's Cube when you were younger? No? Well, the NSX engineers did, and they made a more challenging puzzle just for us. The goal: to figure out how to get the three t-belt covers out...and back in; the geometric permutations are only limited by one's own sanity but there is only one combination that works.
4 getting the t-belt back on and aligned is pretty well documented in the Service Manual and is not too difficult to do after one's done it a few times
other tidbits: if you're going to change the water pump then expect a little bit of a coolant mess and expect to refill and bleed the coolant system. There will be a little bit of an oil mess too b/c the oil cooler will be partially removed.
The t-belt covers require some funky tool combinations and twister-like maneuvering to get some of the bolts off. Note: while trying to remove one of these pesky little bolts I lacerated a tendon on my index finger knuckle and had to do the rest of the procedure one-handed while my tendon healed in an arm cast.
If you're really nice, Larry might lend you some helpful pins to help set the cam shafts and he may even provide you with the magic key that allows for easy t-belt cover removal/installation.
HtH,
DanO
- Joined
- 10 November 2002
- Messages
- 1,124
Does she have a sister?
Dano, that is simply amazing! Does Abby have a sister? I could really use a pretty woman with excellent wrenchdown skills and a well-stocked tool cabinet. (Please send pics of cabinet.) My divorce is almost final!
Seriously, I do some light DIY (coil packs, trunk struts, BOSE speaker replacement) but after seeing your expose I will definitely stick to the light stuff. To those who have the facilities/tools/skills, I salute you.
Dano, that is simply amazing! Does Abby have a sister? I could really use a pretty woman with excellent wrenchdown skills and a well-stocked tool cabinet. (Please send pics of cabinet.) My divorce is almost final!
Seriously, I do some light DIY (coil packs, trunk struts, BOSE speaker replacement) but after seeing your expose I will definitely stick to the light stuff. To those who have the facilities/tools/skills, I salute you.
I have done my own timing belt and learned a lot. It's a lot like building a ship in a bottle but the bottle is mostly black with a few spots you can see/reach into. I had my car down for a about 4 weeks, real labor time was maybe 12-14 hours but every time I came across a part I needed it was 2-3 days to get it. I did end up installing a new crank/cylinder sensor, center timing cover /w new gasket and other misc. gaskets that were missing. Also bought the special tool for adjusting the valves.
If you can not stand spending an 1/2 hour just getting one bolt started you would be better off taking it in to have it done.
If you can not stand spending an 1/2 hour just getting one bolt started you would be better off taking it in to have it done.
Hey Guys,
Well, I had done about 50 timing belts before the NSX, and the first time on the NSX was whole new ballgame. You have gotten the majority of great advice already, so I will add a few things I learned following the comments above.
Crank Pulley - DanO says it all, the right tool for the right job. With the crank tool and the breaker bar (3/4"drive, w/4" extension, 3/4"-1/2"reducer, and a 19mm deep impact socket, one push of the right foot will have it off (Thanks Barnman)
Covers - "The Cube" I will tell you how I do it. The sequence of removal is front upper cover, LOOSEN rear upper cover, and MOVE to the side, REMOVE lower Cover, THEN REMOVE rear upper cover (Thanks MarkB)
Installation is reverse, upper rear cover installed out of the way FIRST, then install the lower cover.
Special note - the upper rear 10mm bolt holding the rear upper cover on is a bitch. (This bolt has the bracket for the rear 02 sensor on it, an ODBII car will make you more crazed then an ODBI car) I REMOVE the right swaybar mount completely, then you can move the engine up and down (see #2 above), with the floor jack to gain the best access. This is the bolt that will separate the men from the boys when it comes to patience. This bolt took me 45 minutes to replace the first time. I suspect this is the one BrianK was thinking when he wrote: "If you can not stand spending an 1/2 hour just getting one bolt started you would be better off taking it in to have it done."
Aligning Cams - I have a set of special pins I had a machinist make up for me (took two revisions) that can be inserted into the cam pipes and hold the front intake and the rear exhasut cam at exactly TDC #1. When you replace the belt in the car things are really hard to see without severe parallex error, and having these cams pinned in place as a reference makes the job way easier. READ THE BOOK, READ THE BOOK, READ THE BOOK to install the timing belt. Do it EXACLTY as they say. Remember to remove the pin in the rear exhasut cam(if you use them), BEFORE you advance the rear exhaust cam to install the belt.
Coolant fill - Not a big deal, but I was taught a major tip by Mark Basch. Fill the system with the rear of the car HIGHER then the front, so the radiator is the lowest item. This is the difference between jerking around for hours to bleed it correctly vs. 20 minutes for a perfect bleed. ALSO: IMPORTANT BEFORE you start, warm the car up and have the heat on so the water valve is open. After you are finished warm the car up and make sure you have heat. This may require you to bleed the heater core a little more.
Also ALWAYS pressure test the system after you install a new water pump, right after. Do not install another bolt until you do. You are taking a huge risk if you do not test it. I will tell you a quick story. Spend 14 hours or so doing what I considered a perfect job t-belt, 60K service, etc. Took the car out, ran perfect. Got up the next morning and cried when I saw a puddle of coolant under the car!!
I HAD TO DO THE JOB OVER
. It was a bad water pump gasket, not sure it I ruined it going in, was defective out of the box, no matter, I HAD TO DO IT OVER. Totally sucked, DO NOT END UP THERE. It was about $100 for a nice tool for testing the coolant system for leaks. It would have saved me 8-10 hours of rework.
(Since I am a former Porsche guy: coolant, what's that?? LOL...)
I try my best to learn when myself or others make a mistake and share it. Please learn from this one.
If you are serious about doing this yourself, private me at [email protected] and we can go into as much detail as you like. I started a write up, DanO and a few other folks have it, but it really is not ready for "Prime" time yet. Just been too busy to get back to it.
HTH,
LarryB
Well, I had done about 50 timing belts before the NSX, and the first time on the NSX was whole new ballgame
. You have gotten the majority of great advice already, so I will add a few things I learned following the comments above.Crank Pulley - DanO says it all, the right tool for the right job. With the crank tool and the breaker bar (3/4"drive, w/4" extension, 3/4"-1/2"reducer, and a 19mm deep impact socket, one push of the right foot will have it off (Thanks Barnman)
Covers - "The Cube" I will tell you how I do it. The sequence of removal is front upper cover, LOOSEN rear upper cover, and MOVE to the side, REMOVE lower Cover, THEN REMOVE rear upper cover (Thanks MarkB)
Installation is reverse, upper rear cover installed out of the way FIRST, then install the lower cover.
Special note - the upper rear 10mm bolt holding the rear upper cover on is a bitch. (This bolt has the bracket for the rear 02 sensor on it, an ODBII car will make you more crazed then an ODBI car) I REMOVE the right swaybar mount completely, then you can move the engine up and down (see #2 above), with the floor jack to gain the best access. This is the bolt that will separate the men from the boys when it comes to patience
. This bolt took me 45 minutes to replace the first time. I suspect this is the one BrianK was thinking when he wrote: "If you can not stand spending an 1/2 hour just getting one bolt started you would be better off taking it in to have it done."Aligning Cams - I have a set of special pins I had a machinist make up for me (took two revisions) that can be inserted into the cam pipes and hold the front intake and the rear exhasut cam at exactly TDC #1. When you replace the belt in the car things are really hard to see without severe parallex error, and having these cams pinned in place as a reference makes the job way easier. READ THE BOOK, READ THE BOOK, READ THE BOOK to install the timing belt. Do it EXACLTY as they say. Remember to remove the pin in the rear exhasut cam(if you use them), BEFORE you advance the rear exhaust cam to install the belt.
Coolant fill - Not a big deal, but I was taught a major tip by Mark Basch. Fill the system with the rear of the car HIGHER then the front, so the radiator is the lowest item. This is the difference between jerking around for hours to bleed it correctly vs. 20 minutes for a perfect bleed. ALSO: IMPORTANT BEFORE you start, warm the car up and have the heat on so the water valve is open. After you are finished warm the car up and make sure you have heat. This may require you to bleed the heater core a little more.
Also ALWAYS pressure test the system after you install a new water pump, right after. Do not install another bolt until you do. You are taking a huge risk if you do not test it. I will tell you a quick story. Spend 14 hours or so doing what I considered a perfect job t-belt, 60K service, etc. Took the car out, ran perfect. Got up the next morning and cried when I saw a puddle of coolant under the car!!
I HAD TO DO THE JOB OVER
. It was a bad water pump gasket, not sure it I ruined it going in, was defective out of the box, no matter, I HAD TO DO IT OVER. Totally sucked, DO NOT END UP THERE. It was about $100 for a nice tool for testing the coolant system for leaks. It would have saved me 8-10 hours of rework. (Since I am a former Porsche guy: coolant, what's that??
LOL...) I try my best to learn when myself or others make a mistake and share it. Please learn from this one
.If you are serious about doing this yourself, private me at [email protected] and we can go into as much detail as you like. I started a write up, DanO and a few other folks have it, but it really is not ready for "Prime" time yet. Just been too busy to get back to it.
HTH,
LarryB
Last edited:
Larry Bastanza said:
So what you're saying is: "if you want to do it twice then do it yourself!"
As usual, LarryB’s missive is full of great tips and helpful advice. I don’t think our intent is to scare anyone away from doing this job themselves because it can be done and can be quite rewarding work. If you’ve got the time, ambition, the Service Manual and are willing to spend a $100 bucks or so on special tools then I’d say go for it! Otherwise, a good mechanic can make pretty quick work of the task, especially one who has done an NSX t-belt before!
DanO
You definitely can do the job yourself as long as you are an experienced mechanic. This is not a job for rookies. Dano has hit the hard points and Larry is right on about the invisible bolt. Larry's write up is handy to have if you have never done an NSX T-belt before. The crank tool is a must. The crank pulley bolt makes a BIG bang when it comes loose (least it did on my car...I thought something broke). The cam pins are a big help as are a couple of big paper clips...see Larry's write up. It took me one night to take everything apart (except for the crank pulley bolt...needed to borrow the tool for that) and a full Saturday of careful cleaning and assembly till it was ready to go. If you enjoy this sort of work, go for it and be patient. If you are just trying to save some $$$ and are sort of mechanically impatient, well ...you should let someone else do it. It will cost you less.
I dont consider myself a rookey, just never done a t-belt on an NSX. From the comments above it sounds like the norm tbelt replacement(pain in the axx, tight work space, lots of scraped nuckles). Sounds like a fun weekend in my book. Thats what I love about doing all of my own work to my cars. I going to do it over the Turkeyday weekend. Time to call my friend at Acura for parts and tools...
ive done about 50 myself and the first is fun. what i do now is drop the engine then it becomes like any other car. but it takes me about 1.45 hours to remove the engine and im doing other stuff on it to. good luck. give me a call if you need help. (858)569-0693 jerry greenlight auto repair
I too think that any experianced mechanic could do the job. I have helped chage about 15 other timing belts. I changed my timing belt at age 21 with the help of my smarter than me dad. In the first day we got it all tore down and then we spend 6 hours, 3 different air guns, trying to get the pulley bolt off, but it was the acura pulley holder tool we were able to borrow from the dealer that finally got it off (along with a 4 ft pipe on the breaker bar) .
