Reasons for the differences in hardcore factor of S2K vs. NSX folks

Just thought I'd throw in my 2 centavos.

As and S2K owner and NSX admirer, I have to say that I respectfully disagree with much of what has been said above.

It is true that there are plenty of hardcore S2K owners that religously track their cars. There are also 10 times as many knucklheads that equate street racing with being a good driver. There are some S2K owners who are technically superior and know how to eek that last bit of performance out of their cars (UL, DavePK and XViper come to mind). There are also a zillion goofballs that think adding a huge fart can, stickers up the ying yang, and a big retarded wing on the back automatically gives them racing credentials.

As far as the NSX community goes, most NSX owners that I've had the pleasure of meeting are true car enthusiasts. This forum, in particular, has a lot of technical expertise and some very good drivers. That being said, there are also a few knuckleheads.

So what's my point? My point is that it takes all kinds and both cars (awesome road cars in their own ways) appeal to true car enthusiasts. Both cars also appeal to the Fast N Freaking Dumb crowd. Both forums get intelligent, reasonable threads going. Both forums also get the occassional jackass.

One might find more S2K's at track events (particularly here in CA because of the almost year round drop top weather) but that is likely more a function of the cost of a new car ($33K vs let's call it $80K) and the large difference in the number of cars sold every year. Remember, as relatively low volume as the S2K is, Honda probably sells twice as many S2K's in a month than they dow NSX's in a year.

Let's all appreciate the gifts that Sochirosan and his company have given us and respect these awesome cars for what they are. After all, very few true car enthusiasts that I know wouldn't kill to have one of each in his/her garage. I know I would.
 
That Open Source Brake thread is great. There does seem to be fewer NSX track enthusiasts in attendence at DE or other events (sans NSXPO).
 
These threads crack me up and make me sad all at the same time...neither group is better, just has different priorities. Sure, more NSX people will let their cars sit in the garage gathering dust than the S2000 guys. But usually the NSX owners seem to have more cars than the S2000 guys and the NSX is typically just a toy. An expensive toy, but a toy. I just hear more NSX people say, "I do not track my car ever...would you if you spent that much on a car"? To which I say, yes, and point to my NSX cooling off in the pits. There are exception everywhere, this is just my opinion from what I have observed. Frankly, I do not care either way. People that know me know that my cars are driven and used for fun, I do not care what they cost me. They are well taken care of, but I sure love to drive them.....your mileage may vary....but mine is over 113,000. :D
 
Ponyboy said:
There does seem to be fewer NSX track enthusiasts in attendence at DE or other events (sans NSXPO).
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There are quite a few NSX owners in Texas who track their cars frequently, at events held by groups like Drivers Edge. Sounds like you go to events held by different groups from the ones that they go to. Maybe they're avoiding you. :p
 
I have to agree with a prior post regarding the knucklehead factor.

Per capita, the average NSX owner is far more educated in the way of the automobile than the average S2000 owner. As a percentage, the S2000 crowd is not nearly as "hardcore" as the NSX crowd. However, if you just look at raw numbers, it should be no suprise to see more S2000's at a track.
 
hehehehehe, at least I was probably successfull at riling a few of you up... Just challenging you guys to come out to the track and back up our smack!

For those who say the S2000 is cheaper hence they should be able to afford to bring/destroy their car at the track must have different priorities... You can afford an NSX but don't want to risk damage or something... I don't know whats up with that. S2K folks most likely have a lot less $$ to abuse... but they are still out there.

It sounds, as if because you respect people that track their cars more than others, the S2K owners are cooler?? Correct me if I misunderstood
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Absolutely. Not S2K owners in general, but S2K owners that are out there duking it out.
 
I agree with Kenji that there seems to be a lot less NSXs at track events than S2Ks. Exclude the hardcore NSX/S2K track junkies and their cars that are not or barely streetlegal, there still seems to be not as many as you would expect. I am talking about the West Coast mostly. I don't know the reasons for it since you always hear that the strength of the NSX is handling. If that is true then there are no legal venues to explore its strength except on the track. If the NSXs go out only in NSX only events like NSXPO or NSXCA then that still isn't a lot of track time in a year. I can understand the concern for not wanting to damage the car but you can drive at your comfort level and still be much faster (and safer) than driving on the street.
 
kenjiMR said:
For those who say the S2000 is cheaper hence they should be able to afford to bring/destroy their car at the track must have different priorities... You can afford an NSX but don't want to risk damage or something... I don't know whats up with that. S2K folks most likely have a lot less $$ to abuse... but they are still out there.
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Say Kenji, didn't you just run the last event in your MR2? Or should we just do as you say and not as you do! :p

The insurance situation pretty much decided things for me. My auto insurer definitely DOES NOT cover any track event. I consider my NSX-Z irreplaceable at this point (haven't seen any cleaner Z specimens of late and there is a limited supply) so if I'm going to ball up a car - especially on my own nickel - it's gonna be the M3.

Personally, I prefer renting formula cars on track. Limited liability and, more importantly, a formula mazda with full aero package and slicks can do about 2 lateral Gs. :eek: It'll make you forget all about street cars.
 
Having been privvy to all NSX track events in NorCal since 1999, and on a few occasions S2Ks were there as well, and two S2KCA events (both at Laguna Seca) let me give you my perspective.

Besides the obvious, given that there are more S2Ks in the market, even if and and when a smaller percentage of them get on the track, their numbers will appear to be more. Enough said. However, at the functions that I have attended, there have always been more NSXs than S2Ks, except for when it was a specifically S2KCA function ..............

In both S2KCA events, I was an instructor for the group.

In one of their events (January 2002), Kings Motorsports attended with their 3 drivers. Were they fast, heck yes, they had the support of a trailer with computers and engineers! But they were also complete smack talking morons with an attitude to prove that their sponsored mods and tuning tweaks were superior to weekend trackers with SC ......... there were a few more who also fit this discription, and they were all chastized on the S2Ki forums because they were out their racing and timimg their laps in a fashion that was NOT consistent with the HPDE program, endangering many other drivers especially when they forced themselves with passes in the novice sessions ........... end result, we had two S2Ks that hit the walls with mega dollars of repairs (they had to be towed) and more than 10 spins on the track in one day ...........

This year, the S2KCA event was hosted by NCRC. Much safer event even though there were a few spins as expected; and an M3 tapped the wall at turn 11, and a boy racer S2K spun 360 at turn 4 because he was driving way too agressively, of course both on the last session of the day ...... the same boy racer lost a wheel at THill a few weeks ago, causing the time trials to be cut by 30 minutes.

My point is this. You have all sorts of people who come to the track from both camps. Some are boy racers out there to prove something, others are weekend warriors, and others are jsut pimping .............. For the most part very few NSXers here in NorCal push their cars to the limit the way some of the S2K folks do. Perhaps the price differential (hence damage/repair costs) is a factor, perhaps the older average age of an NSX owner takes a bite from the risk we are willing to take .........

But, to be fair, there are a few S2K track junkies out there that will give the best NSX drivers a run for their money. Besides the Kings Motorsport drivers, I am thinking of Rylan Hazelton and Josh Goldsmith (both instructors in our pool) who have plenty seat time and are very fast on Hoosiers - tires that were larger than NSX tires .......... and to my knowledge, Kenji does have a point, I have seen only a handful of NSXers that can match those speeds - such as Andrie on normally aspirated NSX, Mark Allan, Doug Hayashi, Greg Hardee all with SC, and there may be a few more that I am sure I am missing ...... but they are all boy racers with dollars who constantly tinker with their cars for that additional 1/10th .......... the rest of us are indeed pimping on eom tires happy to turn a lap without damaging the polish or the wax ............ LOL!


Just my $0.02
 
I'll add my thread-killing $.02. I'd probably track my NSX more if it wasn't an automatic. Plus I'm a bit uncomfortable flogging an 11 year old car around the track. The S2000 is newer with presumably more wear ahead of it but I wonder how solid it will feel in 2013. My guess is that many NSX owners may be less aggressive on the track because their cars are more expensive
and older than the S2000's. ( BTW, my 11 year old auto NSX is way faster than my 1 year old S2000. ) No flames please.
 
JimK said:
My guess is that many NSX owners may be less aggressive on the track because their cars are more expensive and older than the S2000's.
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If that's true - and I'm not sure that it is - it's strictly a matter of perception by the owner. There is no reason a well-maintained 12-year-old NSX shouldn't stand up to the needs of a track event every bit as well as a brand new one. Granted, there are some parts (brake pads, tires, rotors) that are wear items, but that's why they are easily replaceable - and they wear just as fast on a new car as an older one.
 
Number9 said:
Say Kenji, didn't you just run the last event in your MR2? Or should we just do as you say and not as you do! :p

The insurance situation pretty much decided things for me. My auto insurer definitely DOES NOT cover any track event. I consider my NSX-Z irreplaceable at this point (haven't seen any cleaner Z specimens of late and there is a limited supply) so if I'm going to ball up a car - especially on my own nickel - it's gonna be the M3.

Personally, I prefer renting formula cars on track. Limited liability and, more importantly, a formula mazda with full aero package and slicks can do about 2 lateral Gs. :eek: It'll make you forget all about street cars.
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Yeah, my excuse right now is that I can't afford to fix my clutch in the NSX... thats why I'm out there in the MR2. At least I'm honing my skills... I am no Doug Hayashi or Andrie Hartanto, but I'm trying to get better little by little...

Anyways, guys, don't take my words too seriously... afterall its your time and money.
 
kenjiMR said:
Yeah, my excuse right now is that I can't afford to fix my clutch in the NSX... thats why I'm out there in the MR2. At least I'm honing my skills...
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I was just doing a little good natured razzing in the same spirit as your post and I do agree with your sentiments about getting more seat time. We're doing a forced shutdown next week so I'll be running Infineon 6/30 - 7/2. BTW, you going to make it to the 7/5 club lunch? I'm buying.
 
Number9 said:
I was just doing a little good natured razzing in the same spirit as your post and I do agree with your sentiments about getting more seat time. We're doing a forced shutdown next week so I'll be running Infineon 6/30 - 7/2. BTW, you going to make it to the 7/5 club lunch? I'm buying.
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Its all good. Ted, I'm thinking about going out of town... but I'm not fully decided about what to do for the weekend. I'm sick of the Bay Area, so need to leave if possible. Is there any way I can come if I change my mind at the last minute? I'd like to hang out and do something, but partying in LA or Vegas may be better for my health.
 
Heyn there Kenji,Ill see you at Infineon and I'll bring my Hot lap reciever,I'll even bring the sender if need be!Its kinda silly in a way to compare the action at s2k int. vs here.The population is much greater, just look at how many users are on line at any given moment,pound for pound though I bet we have as many techno guys and trackies.On the east coast I don't see too many s2k's simply due to track regs,and the still developing rollbar aftermarket.
 
docjohn said:
Heyn there Kenji,Ill see you at Infineon and I'll bring my Hot lap reciever,I'll even bring the sender if need be!Its kinda silly in a way to compare the action at s2k int. vs here.The population is much greater, just look at how many users are on line at any given moment,pound for pound though I bet we have as many techno guys and trackies.On the east coast I don't see too many s2k's simply due to track regs,and the still developing rollbar aftermarket.
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Yeah, you're probably right. I just hope to see more NSX owners to be out there being track nuts. We actually do have 10 or so already but most of them are driving other cars such as Spec Miatas or Honda Challenge cars... but thats totally cool too. Its the NSX related track comradery that is what I'm trying to promote. I've been taking my MR2 a lot more often instead the past year to save $$ as well. Once the NSX is in tip top shape again, I plan to track it regularly.
 
you guys better be serious about duking it out at Sears Point. I don't want to see all your exciting smack talk go away once you see how close the walls are to the racing surface.
 
Hardcore NSX fans
 

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"you guys better be serious about duking it out at Sears Point. I don't want to see all your exciting smack talk go away once you see how close the walls are to the racing surface." I'm sure the armco can't be much closer than the blue "collect-em up" at the Glen. We can't wait to host you'all at the glen in 04!
 
docjohn said:
I'm sure the armco can't be much closer than the blue "collect-em up" at the Glen. We can't wait to host you'all at the glen in 04!
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Armco? What is that? Oh that must be what we call concrete at Sears :D
 
my 2 cents:

1. it seems to me that kenji is basing his comments on traffic on the web site. If you look at s2ki, there are 100's on people on it at all times of the day(i know i am). The website is known for having many enthusiasts(z06, bmw, mb guys) on it. This leads to heated discussions regarding the pros/cons of anything related to cars. I don't find this to be true at nsxprime. most of the people on nsxprime either own a nsx or are shopping for one.

2. the s2k is a newer design. so, there are plenty of people trying out new mods on it. they in turn post their sucess on s2ki. on the other hand, the nsx is a 12 yr old design. most of the mods have been well tested. lets face it, alot of the excitement of the nsx has to do with the redesign.

3. the are a lot fewer nsx owners willing to spank their japanese Ferrari.;)
 
Hey there Maomaonsx actualy the armco at the glen resides between you and the concrete and its there little way of blue streaking your car before hitting a wall!:p But I think we both get the idea!
 
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