Real-Time Help!! -- Radio deck not recognizing CD Player

[NSXaholic]

Originally posted by D'Ecosse:
...edit: I suspect the m-bus cable is pin-pin compatable as it would be used for new product installation i.e. no acura/honda pin switching funny business! The only consideration should be to use this as an extender NOT a replacement.

[This message has been edited by D'Ecosse (edited 11 December 2002).]

I think the pin the nsxxtreme pointed to is a standard 8-pin male/female DIN connecter. Here is an enlarged picture of what they are advertising on their site:

Unless I am missing something, this bears an exact resemblance to the DIN cable I need. The only issue (as you rightly note D'Ecosse) is that this is an extension cord for OEM Alpine equipment, which means that in addition to this cable, I would need to get the ACUALP adapter (since none of the pins in the advertised DIN cable would be switched over, and so the phasing would be out of sync).

Let me know your thoughts.

Regards.

 

[Ag NSX]

Does the ACUALP adapter switch pins #2 & #4? I don't have my NSX with me or I'd go out and take a picture for you. But is this the piece you need? I can't remember what mine extension/adapter looked like.
http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/PERACUALP

 

[D'Ecosse]

Originally posted by NSXaholic:
The only issue (as you rightly note D'Ecosse) is that this is an extension cord for OEM Alpine equipment, which means that in addition to this cable, I would need to get the ACUALP adapter (since none of the pins in the advertised DIN cable would be switched over, and so the phasing would be out of sync).

Actually no - I think this cable WILL work as an extension - the switch is probably made in either the head or the cable from there to the trunk (its irrelevant which for your purpose) then switched back again in the changer. Now if you were replacing that cable from head to trunk, you would for sure need the adapter; however you won't since you are keeping that & just using it as extension.
Best Bet - go to a local store, this time ask for M-bus extension & ask them to measure pin-pin for you, then you will be in no doubt!!! That would also help satisfy all our inquiring minds as to what configuration a "std." M-Bus cable actually is!

 

[NSXaholic]

Originally posted by Ag NSX:
I also have an CHM-S620.

I thought that if Acura switched the #2 & #4 pin, it would have to be in both the CD player and the cable right? Think about it. Let's say signal A&B are crossed in the cable, then signal A&B must be crossed in the CD changer, any other way you would be plugging signal A into B, even with an OEM set up.

So you go buy an aftermarket changer where signal A&B are NOT crossed. Now your signals are messed up because the cable has signal A&B CROSSED. So you go to an audio shop and buy a regular M-bus cable which signal A&B are NOT crossed and your changer receives the right signal.

So I think since NSXaholic has an OEM changer, he needs to find an OEM cable which the #2 & #4 pins are switched.

Does this make sense or am I missing something?

Wow, this is starting to get a little confusing, but I think what you said is right Ag NSX. Let me try to paraphrase:

(1) OEM NSX trunk-wire (emerging from left side of trunk) has an 8-pin connector that has pins 2 and 4 reversed. This was done to prevent excessive aftermarket modifications.

(2) In order for an OEM NSX changer to work (forget about cables for a second), it obviously has to realize and accept the switched pins. So in answer to your first question, yes, both the trunk-cable and the CD changer theoretically need to have and accept the 2 and 4 pins switched.

(3) When you buy an OEM Alpine stereo, the DIN cable that is supplied with it cannot just be plugged in, because here, the pins 2 and 4 are NOT switched. If directly plugged in, it results in being out-of-phase, the most noticeably phenomenon of which is that there is a clear lack of bass in the sound system. In order to correc this, you need to purchase an ACUALP adapter.

(4) As you rightly point out, my situation is unique in that I have a CD changer that is OEM NSX (therefore 2 and 4 pin switched), I have a OEM trunk cable (therefore 2 and 4 pin also switched), but I have a non-OEM DIN Cable that doesn't work.

(5) The cause of it not working could be a couple of things: (A) the DIN cable is just bad/defective. Although the power pin works, one or more of the other pins doesn't, or (B) it is an Alpine OEM extension cable, and therefore the 2 and 4 pins are straight, and not swapped. If it was "B" however, I would have thought that I would have got some sound, just without bass. This did not seem to be the case.

(6) As a result, I am going to try another DIN cable (like the one nsxxtreme linked to), and see if that works. In an ideal world, I would want exactly what you had posted: an OEM NSX DIN cable that has the 2 and 4 pins switched. This has been difficult to find. Instead, I will probably have to buy an Alpine DIN cable.

(7) The main question when I do that, though, will be to see how many adapters are needed. I'm wondering if I may actually need two ACU/ALP adators -- one to covert the switched 2/4 pin signal coming from the trunk-cable to the DIN, and one that is inserted from the female head of the DIN when I plug the CD changer part into it.

I hope that wasn't too confusing. Let me know your thoughts.

And please let me know which store is ABT?? I have some time on my hands, and may actually pay them a visit if you can let me know where they are located.

Regards.

 

[heretic]

As long as the pins in the new din are not out of order or snyc ie (they hold the same position not a cross over cable) why would you need the ACUALP adapter ???
both source din(in trunk) and end (cd changer)have the right pin positions right???

does the new din connect the signal ground to the cd changer??

 

[NSXaholic]

Originally posted by Ag NSX:
Does the ACUALP adapter switch pins #2 & #4? I don't have my NSX with me or I'd go out and take a picture for you. But is this the piece you need? I can't remember what mine extension/adapter looked like.
http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/PERACUALP

This is exactly the right adapter to use with the OEM faceplate/wire if you have an Alpine "M" unit (ie, non OEM NSX). However, I have both an OEM faceplate/wire and an OEM changer, so the question is where does the 2/4 pin conversion take place??

Regards.

 

[Ag NSX]

1 OEM head -- OEM cable ------ OEM CD = Yes
2 OEM head -- OEM cable ------- AF CD = No
3 OEM head -- switched cable ------ OEM CD = No
4 OEM head -- switched cable ------- AF CD = Yes

-----------------------------

So you have situation 1, so I think all you need is a working M-bus cable extender (no switched pins). Here's one on Ebay for $10.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1943763132

If I remember correctly, all the the ones I've seen (only 3 in person) have had that right angled connector. I haven't seen one like the one pictured in your original photo. I'm thinking you got the wrong cable.

[This message has been edited by Ag NSX (edited 12 December 2002).]

 

[NSXaholic]

Originally posted by Ag NSX:
NSXaholic: I think all you need is a working M-bus cable extender (no switched pins). Here's one on Ebay for $10.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1943763132

If I remember correctly, all the the ones I've seen (only 3 in person) have had that right angled connector. I haven't seen one like the one pictured in your original photo.

Hmmm, the right-angle issue is interesting. I actually didn't think about that. I was going to buy another DIN cable from this guy but it looks exactly like what I bought before, so maybe I should look at your posting.

Anyways, I am also going to see if I can steal away tomorrow and check to see if the a standard M-Bus works. What is causing me some hesitation on whether a standard M-Bus will work is the seller's reply when I asked him if he had checked the DIN cable he mailed me:

Hi Vik it was working when I sent it to you I hooked all the din cables up between my deck and eq before listing them and they were ok

Time will tell. What are your thoughts on some good local audio stores Ag NSX??

Regards.

[This message has been edited by NSXaholic (edited 12 December 2002).]

 

[D'Ecosse]

Originally posted by NSXaholic:
(6) As a result, I am going to try another DIN cable (like the one nsxxtreme linked to), and see if that works. In an ideal world, I would want exactly what you had posted: an OEM NSX DIN cable that has the 2 and 4 pins switched. This has been difficult to find. Instead, I will probably have to buy an Alpine DIN cable.

(7) The main question when I do that, though, will be to see how many adapters are needed. I'm wondering if I may actually need two ACU/ALP adators -- one to covert the switched 2/4 pin signal coming from the trunk-cable to the DIN, and one that is inserted from the female head of the DIN when I plug the CD changer part into it.

OK, everything up to item 6 was correct - the statement in BOLD is incorrect however:
since you are already switched per the Acura OEM up to the trunk (again, forget about whether it is in the head or the cable). You also have OEM changer, so that switches it back again & all is well.
So you need to maintain that orientation therefor a pin-pin compatable extension is required - if you introduce another switch cable (per your stated requirement "ideal" in 6) then you will reverse the switch one additional time & be out of synch.
So, to maintain the correct config a straight cable is what you want & I think the suggested ALP-21 is indeed that.

 

[Ag NSX]

I know I that have the ACUALP adapter in my NSX. Once I get it back tomorrow (if the weather is good) and if this thing isn't resolved, maybe we can meet and I can put my cable in your NSX to see if we get at least sound.

There are a 7 standard M-bus cables (no switch) currently on Ebay for really cheap!

I've gotten all my stuff at ABT. I think they should have your cable in stock. I checked their website but they only show AI-net cables.

[This message has been edited by Ag NSX (edited 12 December 2002).]

 

[NSXaholic]

Originally posted by Ag NSX:
I know I that have the ACUALP adapter in my NSX. Once I get it back tomorrow (if the weather is good) and if this thing isn't resolved, maybe we can meet and I can put my cable in your NSX to see if we get at least sound.

There are a 7 standard M-bus cables (no switch) currently on Ebay for really cheap!

I've gotten all my stuff at ABT. I think they should have your cable in stock. I checked their website but they only show AI-net cables.

[This message has been edited by Ag NSX (edited 12 December 2002).]

Thanks Ag NSX. Can you private me your number. Also, sorry for my ignorance, but where is ABT, and what does it stand for? I'll try to do a Google search on it right now.

Regards.

 

[nsxxtreme]

Originally posted by nsxxtreme:
My guess is you weren't looking for the right cable. The cable is called an Alpine M-bus cable, every car audio shop (that sells Alpine products) should still carry them.

For your other question I don't know where the wires are swapped. At the Deck or in the cable somewhere? If they are swapped at the deck then just the cable should work. If they are swapped in the cable you are trying to replace, then you would need the adpater. Someone needs to figure this out and put it in the FAQ.

Edit: It sound like you aren't sure what pins get crossed. What Honda did was to rebadge an Alpine CD changer. They switched pins #2 and #4 only. None of the other pins were switched. The question is where they did this. If the switch was done in the factory stereo then any Alpine m-bus cable should work fine (without any wires being switched).If the wires were switched some where in the cable then you would need the adapter only if they were switched in the cable you are replacing. Hope this makes sense.


[This message has been edited by nsxxtreme (edited 11 December 2002).]

I guess this didn't explain it enough.
I think everyone is making this more complicated then it really is. You need an extension, buy the m-bus cable. Now the only question is where the wires are switched. Plug the m-bus cable in if it doesn't work buy the ACUALP adapter. That's all there is to it.

The reason people were switching the wires in the factory plugs was for them to work with aftermarket Alpine changers w/out the ACUALP.



[This message has been edited by nsxxtreme (edited 12 December 2002).]

 

[D'Ecosse]

Originally posted by nsxxtreme:
You need an extension, buy the m-bus cable. Now the only question is where the wires are switched. Plug the m-bus cable in if it doesn't work buy the ACUALP adapter. That's all there is to it.

[This message has been edited by nsxxtreme (edited 12 December 2002).]

I agree with first part of this statement completely & further, believe that you shouldn't need the adapter.
(your earlier statement nsxxtremewas referring to replacing the current cable which confused the issue)
Whether the switch takes place in the head or cable on the Honda OEM its irrelevant for consideration of an extender
Case 1) Switch is in head: that means cable is straight through (pin-pin compatable), therefor no difference between Honda or Alpine cable
Case2) Switch is in Honda cable: that still means that the Alpine cable would then be straight through.
For either case, an extender requires a straight through cable to maintain the polarity switch after the extension
Finally, everyone agrees that regardless of whether switch is in head or original honda cable, it means the polarity is switched at the trunk connection so
A) is perfect for honda OEM changer
B) requires ACUALP adapter for Alpine brand-name changer.

With respect to the Acura/Honda one on e-bay, I would avoid that as an extender - it is probably the original cable given how long it appears to be & potentially could be switched.

[This message has been edited by D'Ecosse (edited 12 December 2002).]

 

[D'Ecosse]

In case you wanted to I was in RS this morning & found they have an 8-pin din plug part # 274-026 for $1.99.
If you wanted to, you could cut the end of the cable you already bought (even customize the length)connect this plug. & be sure you have the pins exactly the way they need to be.
I suspect that might be more hassle than worth for you but wanted to post the info.

 

[nsxxtreme]

Whether the switch takes place in the head or cable on the Honda OEM its irrelevant for consideration of an extender

If the wires were switched in the extender(or whatever you want to call it)on the OEM DIN cable then you would need the ACUALP, becuase they would not be switched on the M-bus cable. I know this sounds confusing but it's not.

What I would do.
1: Buy an Alpine M-bus cable from local stereo store.

2: Plug it in, if it works great don't proceed any further, if not proceed to #3

3: Buy the ACUALP adapter from local stereo shop.

4: By now if you did #1 & #2 or #1, #2, and #3 you should have a working cd changer.

[This message has been edited by nsxxtreme (edited 12 December 2002).]

 

[NSXaholic]

Yipee, my CD changer is finally working with an extension M-Bus DIN!! As you guys noted, all it took was an M-Bus straight-pin cable. Having said that, it was actually difficult to find the m-Bus cable. I checked at Circuit City (sold Alpine equipment but didn't have cable), Best Buy (didn't sell Alpine equipment), Tweeters, RadioShack and other local audio stores in the Chicagoland area and none of them had it. Many thanks to Ag NSX for finally pointing me to ABT, a huge electronics store in Glenview, IL (www.abtelectronics.com). Although it was a hike to get there, it was worth it (BTW, the store is supernice for all sorts of electronics and home appliances).

I am extremely delighted: the CD changer is working well, the bass is kicking and everything is good. The only complaint is the pot-holed Chicago roads causes the OEM player to skip sporadically.

Many, many thanks to all who shared their views, with special thanks to D'Ecosse (who has come through for me many times now), nsxxtreme, and Ag NSX.

Now on to the Smartenna...

Regards.

 

[JaguarXJ6]

Glad you got it working and all it ended up being was an incorrect cable!

 

[D'Ecosse]

Congrats NSXaholic!!!!!!!
I think I can add the last piece of the puzzle, where the switch is:
I was beginning to think that my changer CHM-S620 was an Alpine regular, not acura type. So based on suggestion of the phasing switched, thought an adapter would be in order. I tried a friend's - well, got exactly same type of error that NSXaholic experienced - lit up with EEE on the head & even though it was only on for a few secs, when I went back to trunk I could smell burning.
So conclusions:
1) My changer is Acura/Honda specific since it doesn't like adapter
2) there is more to the wire switch than just signal phasing!!!!!!!!
3) I believe the cable NSXaholic bought originally was an Acura/honda cable with the switch.
4) I believe that the M-Bus cable is indeed pin-pin compatable
5) The switch is definitely in the OEM cable
6) I believe NSXaholic could also have used the cable he bought originally if used as extender while coupled with an ACUALP adapter.

NSXAholic - how much was your cable incidentally?

[This message has been edited by D'Ecosse (edited 13 December 2002).]

 

[NSXaholic]

Originally posted by D'Ecosse:
Congrats NSXaholic!!!!!!!
I think I can add the last piece of the puzzle, where the switch is:
I was beginning to think that my changer CHM-S620 was an Alpine regular, not acura type. So based on suggestion of the phasing switched, thought an adapter would be in order. I tried a friend's - well, got exactly same type of error that NSXaholic experienced - lit up with EEE on the head & even though it was only on for a few secs, when I went back to trunk I could smell burning.
So conclusions:
1) My changer is Acura/Honda specific since it doesn't like adapter
2) there is more to the wire switch than just signal phasing!!!!!!!!
3) I believe the cable NSXaholic bought originally was an Acura/honda cable with the switch.
4) I believe that the M-Bus cable is indeed pin-pin compatable
5) The switch is definitely in the OEM cable
6) I believe NSXaholic could also have used the cable he bought originally if used as extender while coupled with an ACUALP adapter.

NSXAholic - how much was your cable incidentally?

[This message has been edited by D'Ecosse (edited 13 December 2002).]

D'Ecosse, you are as late a poster as I am!! I'm glad you got additional clarity on your own situation -- I do concur that the equipment seems OEM, both based on your earlier post, and the updated you just provided.

The cable cost $25.86 (with Tax).

Regards.