Random Orbital buffers..... any suggestions?

S

Sig

Experienced Member
Joined
25 September 2000
Messages
1,604
Location
Tyson's Corner, VA
I am currently looking at purchasing a random orbital buffer and was curious to hear everyone's opinion on different models they have used.

The Porter Cable 7424 Dual Action Polisher is a nice one being sold through Griot's and other places like properautocare.com going for 180.00-190.00. I also saw a Turtlewax brand random orbital buffer for $30 at track auto. The only differences I can see is variable speed capability and max rotational speed of 2500-6,000 opms for the more expensive one and 3200opms for the turtlewax model. I am planning on using this solely for use with swirl remover products like Meg. #9. Do I need to spend the extra cash for the Porter?

In addition, for the purpose of swirl removing and polishing, should I use foam pads or the cotton bonnets?

Thanks

[This message has been edited by Sig (edited 06 June 2002).]
 
I have the Griot's air orbital and compressor as shown in thier catalog.
Works fantastic, love it. Also get the
hand waxing attachment for the wax pads- makes hand detailing much quicker.

I would also suggest picking up a retractable air hose and ext cord reel on Ebay. I got them for $30 each. Mount them to the wall above your compressor and you have your own little service station!

I think 95% of what Griots sells is
top notch stuff. Their was is great, too.

Meguiers also has a 3 step system out now that I recently used on my black BMW 750.
Results were excellent.
 
Porter cable is the way to go, hands down. It is the most widly used random orbital buffer among the detailing comunity... and there's a reason for it. It's safe, effective and very easy to use. If you want a cheaper price check out http://www.coastaltool.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/a/port/pr7424.htm?E+coastest You can also buy a 7336 sander at most Lowe's hardware stores (home depot and others might have it) The 7336 is the sander version, and usually just under $100. Then you can just buy the backing plate and the pads and your ready to go

------------------
NSX lover and Professional Detailer
 
The backing plate doesn't make much of a difference. Really the plastic ones are made out of a really tough plastic. Even so, the plate is only like a $12 part so if it breaks no biggie (though i have NEVER heard of one breaking). My PC (porter cable) get's used for several hours every week and has for months... every time with the same plastic plate, no problems here. The real issue is the counter weight. The 7424 comes with the 5 inch counter weight (ment to be used with 5 inch pads) where as the 7336 (sander version) and 7424 from coastal tools come with the 6 inch counter weight. This really can make a difference. Especially since most pads you run into are 6 inches. If you are looking for some good pads check out the one's meguiars makes (though i hear griots are also good) You can usually get a paint store to order you (or have in stock) the meguiars pads... they usually run around $13.

Just another quick thought... i'd feel uncomfortable using a metal backing plate. With some pads the edge of the plate just barely hangs over the pad... if an accident happened and that edge caught the car, i would MUCH rather it be plastic than metal, especially with the speeds it moves at.

------------------
NSX lover and Professional Detailer
 
OK let's have a simpleton question ........

Home Depot has an add for a 10" orbital buffer/polisher with 3200 RPM at $19.97. At this price, you can get a new one every year .........
wink.gif


For occasional buffing and polishing, say even 12 times a year, what am I missing? Do we all need the professional heavy duty ones when their use is not everyday .......?
 
>>OK let's have a simpleton question ........

I am surprised by the response of this forum's members to high quality tools. You drive one of the best cars in the world yet you think it's OK to buy junk tools. And we're talking a difference of only about $80 here!

BUY THE BEST!! Like the NSX a fine tool will last longer, perform better and give more satisfaction than an ordinary tool. If you really believe that cheap tools replaced yearly is a good alternative to expensive tools why are you driving an NSX? You could get a 10 year old Civic, throw it out annualy and save big bucks!

I highly reccomend the Griot's random orbiter, either air or electric power. Use the foam pads for applying products. Get the Griot's cotton chenille pad for removing wax. Alternately just buy some 80 grit sandpaper and open a beer - you'll save lots of money!
 
Originally posted by Soichiro:
[B
.......

You drive one of the best cars in the world yet you think it's OK to buy junk tools.

............

If you really believe that cheap tools replaced yearly is a good alternative to expensive tools why are you driving an NSX? You could get a 10 year old Civic, throw it out annualy and save big bucks!

..............

Alternately just buy some 80 grit sandpaper and open a beer - you'll save lots of money![/B]
Click to expand...

Gary, chill a little
rolleyes.gif
this is not good for your health, and no need to get into insults with beer references
tongue.gif
since you missed the point of the post
frown.gif
 
"I am surprised by the response of this forum's members to high quality tools. You drive one of the best cars in the world yet you think it's OK to buy junk tools. And we're talking a difference of only about $80 here!"


I own a 2002 NSX, I think that qualifies me as an "Over Spender" (if there is such a word).

My point on the $80 difference between the Griot's P/C orbital and the one from Coastal Tools was to determine whether the two were the same and Griot's just wanted $80 more for the same tool. It doesn't matter how much one pays for his car to not want to waste $80 when you don't have too. Price should be based on the product not on how much money you have to spend.
Newton

[This message has been edited by NSX-00054 (edited 07 June 2002).]
 
There are two major kinds of buffers... the high speed orbital and the random orbital. Unless any of you happen to have a lot of expiernce, stay away from the high speed.

Make sure that the buffer you use is a duel action or random orbital buffer. If you use the high speed it is very very easy to permanatly damage the paint. If you have a random orbital it's almost impossible. The porter cable 7424 is a random orbital. It is a much better tool than the $30 waxmaster you can pick up at an autoparts store. You would be amazed at what you can accomplish with this buffer.

As for the porter cable, it seems that they license it out. Just about everyone and their sister sells the same tool under their name or claims its one of their products. Even meguiars 'duel action polisher' is just a simple ol' PC 7424. Really you want to get the cheapest one that will work (with the 6 inch counter weight not the 5) and then spend the money on pads. Meguiars and Griots are good.

As for Zaino with a buffer... i've never personally done this.. as there isn't much need to. The combination won't damage the clearcoat (unless it's a highspeed...see above). BUT... i know some really intelegent people who have tried the combination... results seem to be postive.. though i wouldn't justify buying a PC (porter cable 7424) just to use zaino. It's easy enough without it.

If you want more info check out this thread http://www.autopia-carport.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10708&highlight=Zaino The poster ShowroomLincoln is a VERY knoweldgeable detailer. There is lots of good info about PC + Zaino on that thread

------------------
NSX lover and Professional Detailer
 
sorry just saw the last part of that first post... definatly go with the pads over the bonnets. You should at a minium have one soft foam pad (used for layering products.. won't remove what's underkneeth.. what you would use to apply zaino or wax), one polishing pad (used for cleaning products and polishes such as P21S GPEC, meguiars #7 and similar products... when you want a little bit of cleaning or cutting action) and a cutting pad (used for abrasives, has a lot of cutting action... only necessary when you are (intentionally) trying to remove some of the clearcoat... ie to fix swirls or oxidation.


EDIT: Also for the question if just once in a while people need a higher priced model like the PC over just a $30 waxmaster... that's up to you. But i will tell you that just about everyone who has tried the PC or who i have let use mine say it is far superior to those other ones. If you want better results the PC will give it to you. If you just want something to make the whole process simpler.. any random orbital will do. I do know a lot of profesionals, part timers, and people who just have that one car they like to take care of... by far the PC 7424 is the buffer of choice in all those groups (though professionals usually also have a high speed orbital incase the job needs it... better results but takes a lot more training). If you go to any major car board (from clubsi (civicSIs) to beamerfest (bmw)) that has a detailing or similar section, you will see the acronym PC used all over. It's simply what people use... because it works.
------------------
NSX lover and Professional Detailer

[This message has been edited by Dr. Jones (edited 07 June 2002).]
 
Sal Zaino answers the question of using a machine to apply Zaino by saying it would just be a waste of product, You'd end up with more product on your pads than you need to apply to the car. Use the machine for all of the prep stuff, and then apply the Zaino by hand. It really goes on and comes off easily. I suppose you could use a machine for removal, but I don't think it's necessary. I have been wanting to get the PC Machine for some time now, and this topic is pushing me closer in that direction.
 
It doesn't
matter how much one pays for his car to not want to waste $80 when you don't have too. Price should be
based on the product not on how much money you have to spend.
Newton

GOOD POINT,AND WELL PUT.
I concider NSX'ers rather conservative people
thats one reason why they purchased the NSX reguardless of price.The NSX is leaps and bounds cheaper(concidering the average life expectancy vs's price.
MYNSX IN AZ
 
I plan on buying the Porter Cable Detailing machine soon. Griots Garage *emphasizes* the use of a vented backing plate. Porter Cable makes one for this detailing machine, item #18001. It's vented and allows proper cooling to prevent possible burning of your paint. The picture in Griots Garage shows the machine with this vented backing plate. You can see it <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004Y772/qid%3D1023840377/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F0%5F1/002-2412257-6762428">here</a> at Amazon's page. I wouldn't recommend using the supplied backing plate or buffer pad. I plan to use the special foam pads for this machine from Griot's Garage.

I found a website that reviews the machine and includes a <a href="http://autopia-carport.com/ProductTests/PC7424.htm">movie</a> (Windows Media Player) of this machine in action. Apparently it can give you results that can't be duplicated by hand.

FYI: Amazon sells the detailing machine for $130 but will match anyone's price (so they say) with no tax and shipping.

Vytas

[This message has been edited by Vytas (edited 11 June 2002).]
 
Originally posted by Vytas:
I plan on buying the Porter Cable Detailing machine soon. Griots Garage *emphasizes* the use of a vented backing plate. Porter Cable makes one for this detailing machine, item #18001. It's vented and allows proper cooling to prevent possible burning of your paint. The picture in Griots Garage shows the machine with this vented backing plate. You can see it <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004Y772/qid%3D1023840377/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F0%5F1/002-2412257-6762428">here</a> at Amazon's page. I wouldn't recommend using the supplied backing plate or buffer pad. I plan to use the special foam pads for this machine from Griot's Garage.

I found a website that reviews the machine and includes a <a href="http://autopia-carport.com/ProductTests/PC7424.htm">movie</a> (Windows Media Player) of this machine in action. Apparently it can give you results that can't be duplicated by hand.

FYI: Amazon sells the detailing machine for $130 but will match anyone's price (so they say) with no tax and shipping.

Vytas

[This message has been edited by Vytas (edited 11 June 2002).]
Click to expand...

.............................................
Go with #18002, it's thicker and softer for
the same price @ Amazon.
 
Originally posted by Vytas:
I plan on buying the Porter Cable Detailing machine soon. Griots Garage *emphasizes* the use of a vented backing plate. Porter Cable makes one for this detailing machine, item #18001. It's vented and allows proper cooling to prevent possible burning of your paint. The picture in Griots Garage shows the machine with this vented backing plate. You can see it <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004Y772/qid%3D1023840377/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F0%5F1/002-2412257-6762428">here</a> at Amazon's page. I wouldn't recommend using the supplied backing plate or buffer pad. I plan to use the special foam pads for this machine from Griot's Garage.

I found a website that reviews the machine and includes a <a href="http://autopia-carport.com/ProductTests/PC7424.htm">movie</a> (Windows Media Player) of this machine in action. Apparently it can give you results that can't be duplicated by hand.

FYI: Amazon sells the detailing machine for $130 but will match anyone's price (so they say) with no tax and shipping.

Vytas

[This message has been edited by Vytas (edited 11 June 2002).]
Click to expand...


The vented plate can be used... but IMO it's not necessary... i've never burnt the paint with mine, and have never heard of someone doing so. I don't see it doing any harm though. As for the website you found the video, i recomend everyone check it out. www.autopia-carport.com. It is by far the best detailing site on the 'net. The message boards are a huge source of information. Also the founder wrote his own E-book about detailing. I would HIGHLY recomend it. It covers all the basics and really is a great way to get a grasp on everything. It's only like $12-$15 too i believe. There was a special at one point where if you buy the book you get a discount at www.properautocare.com. The video of the PC that link shows is of DavidB (founder) using the machine with some 3M swirl mark remover and BlackFire. If anyone wants to learn check that site.
 
I use a Makita right angle with the 2" foam buffers (compounding and finishing depending on condition of paint). You can burn the paint with this machine. I use a constant stream of water (you get very wet) but the paint can be made scratchless.

On a black car, the paint looks like glass, and any good variety of polish (wax) makes it shine like blazes.

No Zaino needed... just water.
 
Dr. Jones,

If you go to the Coastal website, they also have pads (6" as opposed to 6 1/2" for Meguairs). Any comment on these?? I was wondering if the Meguairs unit actually has a 6 1/2" counterweight.

Appreciate your advise.

LarryB
 
The difference between 6.5 and 6 inch pads is so minimal that no additional counter weight is needed. I haven't tried the pads from coastal tools so i don't know how they are... though i can vouch for the meguiars ones. They are a little thicker than other pads and hold their shape. Also don't worry about the 6.5 inch pads on the 6 inch backing plate. They fit just fine.

------------------
NSX lover and Professional Detailer
 
What everybody should be focusing on is
get the air powered orbital, not the
electric, regardless of brand. The air one Griots sells fits in the palm of your hand- really easy to
move around. Plus, you will find a million other uses for your compressor....
 
Coastal tools has the best deal going for the Porter Cable 7424. This comes with a counter weight for 5inch pads. You can buy the SAME thing, which is the 7336 at Lowes and it comes with the counter weight for 6inch pags. What's the diff?? Using the counter weight for the 6inch pads reduces the amount of vibration. I have a 7424 with the original counter weight and switched over to the counter weight for 6inch pads and it really cuts down on the vibration.

Anyhow, Meguiar's/Griots..they all use the same thing. Order the 7424 or the 7336, you won't regret it. Definitely purchase a backing plate and various foam pads. Don't use wool pads unless you really have bad paint...

Hope this helps.
 
The model Griot's sells is the 97336. 6" Variable Speed Random Orbit Sander Kit with Dust Collector. It has the 6" weight and the model 8001 pad. $199.
Coastal sell the 7424 for $119 and gives you the 6" counter weight for free. The 8100 pad is $15.
The 7424 +8100 pad w/6 weight is identical to the 7336.
 
Originally posted by NSX-00054:
The model Griot's sells is the 97336. 6" Variable Speed Random Orbit Sander Kit with Dust Collector. It has the 6" weight and the model 8001 pad. $199.
Coastal sell the 7424 for $119 and gives you the 6" counter weight for free. The 8100 pad is $15.
The 7424 +8100 pad w/6 weight is identical to the 7336.
Click to expand...

I plan to get the 7424 from Coastal with the 18002 backing plate (vented) & counterweight. This will be identical to the one Griot's sells. In the Griot's catalog, you see the polisher with the 18001 backing plate. As mentioned in this thread, the 18002 is even more flexible and vented. Having this info, I don't want or need to pay $80 more for a plastic case and dust collector hose. However, I will buy the foam pads that he sells for this machine. Those I am sold on.

Vytas
 

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