R8 owner looking to buy NA1- will I be disappointed?

Grill

Grill

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Hey all. I'm currently the very proud owner of a gen1 R8 V10 Spyder with the gated manual transmission. I love my car, it's everything I could hope for from the noise, power, handling, etc. That said my dream car has been an NSX for almost 25 years. When I was 19 and working at a Honda dealer, one of the mechanics too me for a ride in a customer's car (yes obviously this was very naughty of him). It was a 91, but had a 6spd swap, coilovers, Brembos all around, and allegedly a bit of headwork. Suffice to say the memory of this drive is something I think about a lot.

Fast forward to 4 years ago and I fell into a killer deal on the R8 right before the Covid boom and have thoroughly enjoyed my R8 since. Problem is I keep thinking about the NSX, and I've missed the boat on a reasonably priced one, so I'm limited to autos (would have to manual swap) or high mileage manuals (when they show up for sale here which is pretty rare). Being UK based our car market is super depressed, but NSX values haven't dropped quite as fast as most other cars experiencing the post-C19 price correction.

Obviously I expect people to be quite biased towards the NSX, but hopefully there are a few who have been in similar situations who can let me know what they did. At the moment I have a line on a 95 Targa with a 6spd swap, but it does have 215k miles so will likely need a lot of work in the next couple years (it's done 100 miles since the last cambelt change 8 years ago), but coming from a perfect R8 with all jobs done and only 53k miles and ending up with very little change from the swap, am I in a situation where it's better to not meet my hero?
 

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MotorMouth93 said:
Are you talking about buying the NSX in addition to your R8? Or trading for it? If buying then just drive it and see, but I would look for a 91-94 or a 97+.

If I were you, I would absolutely not trade a low miles V10 R8 for a high mileage 95 NSX. I'd love to have both though.
Click to expand...

I'd have to get rid of the R8 in order to afford an NSX. Current auctions are showing values are pretty close from my car to an early 100k+ mile manual NA1, so probably end up with around 12-15k in change for the 200k+ mile one.

Is there are reason you'd avoid the 95/96 cars? Love having a convertible so Targa was quite attractive to me. I'm meeting up with the guy next month to drive the car so if a tired example excites me I'm probably on the right track.
 
They are heavier than the 91-94 due to the targa and they don't have the 3.2 motor to help offset the difference. 6 speed is nice, but I wouldn't value that at more than maybe $5-7k over an otherwise equal 5 speed equipped model. The 95+ cars also do not have tunable ECUs like 91-94 (which won't bother most people), and have more emissions equipment, at least for the US models. At the end of the day they are still good cars and the "drawbacks" are extremely minor. I would definitely try to get one closer to 100k miles than 200k.
 
I'm with MotorMouth93, if you have a well sorted out low mile R8 that you like, I would save some money up just in case a great deal on a mint or close NSX presented itself to you at some point. I'm not sure on exchange rates, but it might pay for you to get familiar with the Japanese market and consider importing a nice one. Should be more to pick from there. If you are after a manual, I wouldn't want to get involved with swapping transmissions.
 
If you can get the car at a good price I wouldn't let the high mileage scare you. Granted I have only had mine since July of last year but it has been an absolute blast. Does it need work? Sure, but I enjoy that part of owning an older car.

I got mine with roughly 229k miles, I am now at 241XXX miles.

But like everyone else has said, keep the R8 and buy an NSX to add. Or if you test drive one and fall in love it why not, you only live once haha.

In regards to being disappointed it depends on what you are looking for. If you are directly comparing it to your R8, then I think it would disappoint in the power / speed factor. The the shifter feel in the NSX is awesome. I would like mine to be faster, and eventually I will do something about it, but it has enough power to have fun on the street and not get into too much trouble...
 
I love NSXs as much as everyone here. I would personally NOT trade a well sorted, gated manual R8 for one, unless you are prepared to miss the power.

However, you can mod a NSX for amazing sound. You can add power (spoken with bias: my NSX has a SOS twin turbo system and now it really scoots). You can add most of the modern accoutrements—I have satellite radio and Apple CarPlay in mine. Or, you can keep it stock, which is also fun. Just be ready to miss the R8, unless you are just tired of it.

If you go through with this: do get a ride (or a drive) in a NSX before you pull the trigger on one. There is a UK NSX group and forum you can post in to ask for a ride or drive, if you haven’t found it already: http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/forum.php

Don’t let high mileage deter you. NSXs are reliable when properly maintained. Yeah, 94-95 are not as popular, but there are so few in the UK that probably beggars can’t be choosers. Of course, I’m in the USA, so I could be wrong about availability.

HTH!
 
Dude, don't listen to them about 95 -96, it's only an extra 100 lbs.
Just remove the battery, spare tire, engine cover, etc... you'll loose the extra weight.

The bias is because they are the majority, and have the loudest voice. I bet anyone of them will trade there cars for a 2005 with the extra weight and 20 extra horsepower.

Seems like they need some group to dump on, it's repeated over and over most don't know why, they just say it's because they're heavy but if it had 20 more horsepower it would be the best NSX, if you want to go faster get a Turbo or Super Charger.

Honda made over 5 thousands 91 - 94 NSX and little over 1200 95 -96 NSX-T

Here's what you didn't hear.

The 1995 and 1996 NSX was upgraded with:

Targa Top: This is a must have, very nice to ride with the top off.

Power Steering: Must have, parking without it, is horrible.

Honda Changed gearing of 2nd gear in Manual Transmission: A little better than going up to 80 mph in 2nd.

Modified airflow to brakes to improve cooling

Throttle-By-Wire

OBD-II: It's very nice to put my reader on it and get codes instead of the morse code thing.

Limited Slip Differential Changes on manual transmission cars. Went from Torque Control Differential to a Torque Reactive Differential - when combined with Throttle-By-Wire, increases speeds out of a corner by 10%.

Bumper reinforcements were changed to extruded aluminum instead of the stamped steel

Approx. 100 lbs heaver than 1991/1992 models due to reinforcements for targa top,

Now you can make your unbiased decision.
 
Ditto thats a huge HP/TK loss. I recently inherited a high mileage 013 Infinity M37 (4-door-argh) - it's only 328 HP and yes even that modest car feels more powerful than the NSX "around town". You've got to find a brother to let you drive one -the old NSX's area about the sticky road feel -but again even my M37 beater has excellent road feel. Regarding coupe vs targa i suspect in most of our members "dream garages" would contain a 3.0 R for sorties and a late 3.2 targe for cruising! Parts available is a real issue, but hey i doubt you will find one person here that would "trade" their ride for anything short of a pristine F458 and most not even then. Just my opinion of course.
 
Grill said:
coming from a perfect R8 with all jobs done and only 53k miles and ending up with very little change from the swap, am I in a situation where it's better to not meet my hero?
Click to expand...
Swapping to a car with half the power and four times the miles is not an upgrade.
 
I don't know if Audi supports the R8, but Acura doesn't. There are some large parts that are no longer available with no aftermarket support (windshield, door panels). That is my greatest fear while driving this otherwise fantastically wonderful car---that I can't fix a broken windshield or a dented door.

I've never had an R8 (which are pretty rare in their own), but the NSX is an attention getter for sure, even at some pretty high end cars and coffees. At least until the f40 and miura show up. ;)
 
Thanks for the responses, they've been helpful. I'll add a bit more context.

Probably worth mentioning I bought my car just before the covid boom for roughly the same price as a new Golf R (yes the UK market is stupid cheap for certain cars), so I'm probably in the running as the poorest gated V10 owner out there (I'm incredibly thrifty in every other aspect of my life and don't have any debt aside from my mortgage. As much as I would love to add an NSX, I don't think that's an option if I want to keep my house and partner. 😅

I don't drive fast. Like I love spirited driving and I have the occasional blast, but even on nice twisties I can happily stay at a speed that won't immediately lose me my license. In fact I'm one of those rare people that tell people the V10 is entirely unnecessary in an R8, so may as well save the money and get the V8. I understand that for a lot of people this is a really strange paradigm, and I get it. I grew up in Arizona and was big into the street racing and drag scene back in the day, but these days I just don't care if a MQB or Tesla or whatever wants to race. I just want to enjoy my driving. As for a Targa being heavier, well that just doesn't matter. After having a convertible I don't want to give up a removeable roof. This is a super weird UK quirk; you may only get a handful of nice days a year, but you take advantage of them as best you can.

I'm of the opinion that the R8 is the car that best encapsulates what the new NSX should have been. A bargain, NA supercar that is both reliable and comfortable. On one hand some of this is probably cope, but I think it's a reasonable assertion. There is something about the NSX that I can't get with the R8 (aside from pop-up headlights). And that's the ability to customise the car to my liking without everything costing the earth. I mean the R8 is done. I've done Wingbacks, wheels, exhaust, and some small aesthetic tweaks, but there's nothing else it needs. I suppose that's the appeal to a super high mile NSX. I get to rip everything out and really make it my car. Plus I'm a Honda guy. I had a B16 swapped CRX in 2000, a DC2 ITR in 2001, and I sold Hondas so that I could be around them. Even now my daily is an FN2 Civic Type R.

I agree that I need to drive an NSX first. Hopefully that tired Targa hits the right notes, but if it doesn't I'll look to try and drive a better example. If it still doesn't excite me then I guess that answers the question, but even then I have a feeling I'll still want one just because.
 
I like your thought process and will add my thoughts, in no particular order:
  • ALL NSXs are good. AT, MT, Targa, Coupe, S, R, etc. The issues about heavier or lighter or whatever doesn't really matter when you are driving the car. I've driven every iteration except the R and (real) Zero. That stuff only really matters at the racing circuit for lap times and you said this was for street purposes. All NSXs feel special because of the chassis dynamics. So I say have at it and get the best NSX you can afford.
  • So many potential owners self-sabotage when they go down the rabbit hole of "it must be red" or "it must have a 6-speed." Don't go down that road.
  • With that said, Targas are really nice to drive with the open top. Given that you live in the UK, I'm not sure how much you'll be using it LOL.
  • Maintenance will be an issue with any NSX that you find. Be prepared for a fair amount of work to be done. If you have the skill set, you can save a lot on labor costs if you DIY. You also have access to Kaz, but his waiting list is years long at this point.
  • Assuming that 6-speed Targa isn't bent or has a bad engine, I say go for it. These cars are only going to get more rare and expensive over time. If you have a line on it and a good price, do it.
  • If you've enjoyed your R8, then I say let it go and move on to the NSX. It's a different experience than the Audi for sure (slower, older, etc.), but that's the point. If you are buying these cars as investments then maybe the analysis changes, but it sounds like you're in it for the driving experience.
  • Whatever NSX you do get, spend some time on the TLC. A nice paint correction can bring that old, soft Honda paint back to almost new condition. UK cars have rust on all the exposed fasteners, so swap them out- they're not expensive and still available from Honda. If you get a Targa, do the targa seals. They are more expensive, but you'll be happy every time it rains.
  • Try your best to get the car back to OEM look/spec. We're well past the time where modded NSXs with the body kits and rims are cool. The more the years go by, the more silly those cars look. The NSX is great with a good set of headers and a sporty exhaust in the tone that you prefer. The OEM wheels help with the intended steering feel.
 
This is very interesting because I have heard of the R8 being compared to the NSX (both old and new).

I agree with many of the comments and will try not to repeat what's been said already.
Here are my thoughts to consider...
  • You mentioned about spirited driving. The NSX has two personalities. Drive it normally and it feels like any other V6 Honda. Push it further and it comes alive. It's a fun experience and perfect for spirited driving, even within the speed limits.
  • You also mentioned about customizing the car without spending a lot of money. I don't know how much R8 parts are, but some NSX parts are not cheap. We joke because there is a "NSX Tax" on parts. This is especially true on rare and discontinued parts. I just want to make sure you have the right expectations.
  • Sounds like you like a Targa. That's great. I have one and I love it. However, be aware that the head room isn't as good as the coupe. So, depending on how tall you are, you might have a problem fitting inside one. I modified my seat so I can fit comfortably. It's something to keep in mind because I suspect the R8 is roomier.
  • Have fun car shopping
 
Grill said:
I'd have to get rid of the R8 in order to afford an NSX. Current auctions are showing values are pretty close from my car to an early 100k+ mile manual NA1, so probably end up with around 12-15k in change for the 200k+ mile one.

Is there are reason you'd avoid the 95/96 cars? Love having a convertible so Targa was quite attractive to me. I'm meeting up with the guy next month to drive the car so if a tired example excites me I'm probably on the right track.
Click to expand...
1995 and 1996 are a bit of orphan years. I think that is why MotorMouth93 jumped to 1997+ which is the start of the NA2 series of the NSX. Model year 2000 is the last model year that received substantive mechanical improvements with due consideration to the 2002 re style with the fixed headlights.

Any NSX in the 97+ range will invariably be a Targa. There are 97+ coupes including the very rare Zanardi which is $$$; but, they are much lower in production numbers. I have a 2000 with Targa. Unlike a modern convertible owning the Targa is more like owning a 1960s MGB convertible. Opening / removing the top and the reverse operation is a hassle and not done on a whim by pushing a button. If the modern convertible experience is important to you I think you will ultimately be disappointed by the NSX targa. When I got my 2000 roughly 14 years ago I frequently took the top off for the novelty of it. That stopped after a couple of years because of the hassle factor and in the last few years the only time the roof panel comes off is to clean and lubricate the gaskets.

Honcho switched from Nissan GTR to NSX ownership so he is testament that newer and more horsepower is not everything. The NSX will be closer to a vintage sports / super car experience (without the ownership agony of a Lamborghini Countach). It will be a more vintage driving experience than your R8 and if that is what you are looking for then switching would be understandable. I do note that I really liked the idea of a mid '60s Austin Healey 3000 and almost purchased one in the early 70s - tuition costs took precedence. I love the look ; but, after driving one 14 years ago not so much the driving experience. If your reason for switching is based upon reliving a 25 year old memory, that may ultimately be disappointing. What was fresh and new back then, not so much anymore.

Finally, be aware that both the R8 and NSX are rear mid engine cars; but, the NSX is devoid of any form of stability control. It is not as bad as an early Porsche 911; but, it can snap and bite with vicious snap over steer if you do decide to push it without knowing how the car responds. The NSX is much less forgiving in its transition to oversteer than modern mid front engine sports cars. Most first generation NSXs disappear because they end up in the weeds or hit something solid rather than falling into disrepair.

NSX in weeds.png

As Honcho notes, modded NSXs are no longer cool unless you are trying to replicate a type S or type R. Just like Austin Healey 3000s and other vintage sports cars the cool factor belongs to pristine originals.

I would not say "don't do it", just thoroughly think through why. There is nothing shabby about the R8 driving experience and I would not be quick to switch.
 
Last edited:
@Honcho some good thoughts, thanks for your input. I will say I have no desire for a stock NA1. Maybe it's just vicariously living out my childhood, but I want to make it mine. I want concave TEs, I want it low, I want it clean, and there's a 50/50 chance I'll join the big wang gang as well. I don't care if those things are played out because it's what makes me happy.
Totally agree with the paint comment, I have a guy that does amazing work. Made my R8 look brand new. As far as roof off, we're a different breed over here. As long as it's not raining, the roof goes down at 10c (50F). It's down at least 95% of the time. 😁


@natcc99 good point on the cost of parts. For the most part a lot are pretty similar to the R8, with the real savings mainly coming from wear items like brakes, tyres, clutch, oil (dry sump takes sooooo much), etc. There is also a big difference in ease of access and labour, much which I can tackle myself on the NSX. On a Spyder engine out is around 50 hours labour so headers would cost close to 20k. Also if the high mileage NSX is decent I'd be looking at a rebuild which would cost roughly the labour of engine out and in of an R8. My man maths already has a beat NSX costing a lot more than the R8, but it would also be a long term project that would hopefully keep me engaged over the next decade (I have weapon's grade ADHD and a new outlet to hyperfocus on would be nice).
 
Great, sounds like you did some homework and set correct expectations for maintenance and parts cost.
Be sure to do some research on common failures. Check those items when you test drive and use any observations for negotiations. Knowing how much it cost to repair those broken parts will help drop the price. (Quick list include power steering, power windows, targa seals, broken interior door handles, bottom knee cover under the steering wheel, bubble finish on door rim and center console, etc)

Since you're in Europe, check out https://www.nsx-parts.com/ (maybe you already have :))

By the way, you mentioned concave TEs. Finding NSX spec wheels is not impossible, but takes some patience to hunt them down. The front fenders and wheel well are small so finding concave front wheels that fit is harder than other cars. There are aftermarket fenders (both stock looking and wide body design) to help you fit various wheels.
 
esqu1re said:
I don't know if Audi supports the R8, but Acura doesn't. There are some large parts that are no longer available with no aftermarket support (windshield, door panels). That is my greatest fear while driving this otherwise fantastically wonderful car---that I can't fix a broken windshield or a dented door.

I've never had an R8 (which are pretty rare in their own), but the NSX is an attention getter for sure, even at some pretty high end cars and coffees. At least until the f40 and miura show up. ;)
Click to expand...
Totally agree - in my experience the European OEMs are far better at supporting legacy models ( that’s why they have a legacy ) than Honda. Your only recourse to this parts problem is a stated value insurance policy so the car is totaled when a part is NLA in the event of body or glass damage. At this point these cars are totaled due the unavailability of door glass. A mechanical problem with no parts is worse - it’s a real drag to have your vintage car sit in the garage for months ( or years ) while you search for a part and then have to settle for a used one.
 
@Grill FWIW, I love the slammed deep dish TE37 look lol. Mexi style! Also, nothing wrong with a big wang on the NSX. It doesn't look as cheesy as it does on other cars for some reason. If that Targa checks out, go for it. You'll love the 6-speed.
 
Hey @Grill , reading your last few comments: JUST DO IT 😁. Welcome to NSX Prime. You’re gonna be a great NSX caretaker.
 


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