Question about a missing vin sticker on a fender? Help

[tbromley]

Hey Guys,

I've been looking at a particular car and in entering into negotiations for my first NSX. So the owner sends me an email with two pics of the LF and RF fender. One has the vin sticker and the other doesn't??? He says this is the first time he's noticed it and he's owned it since 2005. I have no reason to doubt him or else why would he send me the pics and email.

So question is does this mean that the fender has positively been replaced. Any of you other owners have a similar situation??? Know any one that has this situation and knows his car to be "virgin"?? What does this do to resale value? Your thoughts and comments would be most appreciated and helpful at this very important time of my negotiation with the Owner. It's a nice one and I just don't really know how to react to this discovery. I've asked him if there is a way he can talk with the PO. He's a little down about it and I guess I would be too.

Your thoughts Gentlemen,

Thank,
Tim
Atlanta

 

[socalx]

the tag didn't fall off and a lot of repairs can be made without distrurbing the tag, so the logical assumption is that the fender has been replaced. This would mean that significant damage had to happen to the fender. if you are looking for a perfect car, the looking stops at this point.

if you are looking for a nice driver, the next step would be to get the car on a lift and look underneath the front to see what else was replaced and the extent of what was done. in the end if it is a quality repair and did not get into the frame, then it is just cosmetics that will always slightly impact the value of the car. you can also take it to a shop with a paint depth gauge and they can tell you which panels have been repaired.

 

[tosugrad]

What year is the car? I was thinking the older cars (99 and back?) didn't have them.

 

[bangbang001]

What year is the car? I was thinking the older cars (99 and back?) didn't have them.

U R correct

 

[tbromley]

Hey guys,

A little more info. The car is a 2001 Silverstone with 30k miles and he told me earlier that he'd repainted the front valance for stone chips and put a clear bra on.

My feeling is that there is no substitute for factory paint even though it's an OEM part. I'm now going into fact finding mode here. I need this owner to pull thru and get this thing on a lift at an independant body shop - realy good one. Or would the dealer be ok??? Anyway it's got to get up on a lift and see what else was replaced along with this.

Now you know before I go crazy with what ifs, or thinking this is major subtrifuge, it is likely that any damage to a fender that would make one think of replacement doesn't necessarily mean it was real extensive damage. What's the alternative - bondo - uhmmm I don't think anyone wants bondo on their car/NSX exotic super car now do they? So obvious with damage that can't be taken out with little hammers and done the classic old way - not happnin- it calls for panel replacement. Agree?

So maybe it is just a minor deal but no original paint - question I have of you guys is what would you discout this car for this if the damage is merely superficial. I know this is an open ended question and of course we'll check it out to see if other things in suspension and frame or monocoque have been comprimised but the car rides perfectly and this was discovered by the current owner and he says that he had no other indication that anything was wrong - he just "happened" upon this.

Thanks guys for all your support; it is greatly appreciated.

Tim
Atlanta

 

[DocL]

Having a panel replaced is really no big deal. If the replacement fits well and the paint matches nicely I wouldn't worry. Having the front end repainted is also no big deal. You have to expect it if the car was driven that it will get paint chips. However, if you can't sleep at night knowing that the car in your garage has had paint work then don't buy it.

 

[tbromley]

In general the paint work doesn't bother me, but in general there is always a price to pay for a car. My question still is, what does this kind of thing take off from perfect unpainted and original panel car as far as resale potential. How doe's anyone know how "quality" a paint job is??? Does this panel start to show after years of use in the sun. I'm going to drive this car in the sun and wash it - wax it - use it. It's not going to be a garrage queen. How much does panel replacement affect the value? That's the question. Other than lets make sure there isn't something else lurking.

Thanks guys

 

[bangbang001]

In general the paint work doesn't bother me, but in general there is always a price to pay for a car. My question still is, what does this kind of thing take off from perfect unpainted and original panel car as far as resale potential. How doe's anyone know how "quality" a paint job is??? Does this panel start to show after years of use in the sun. I'm going to drive this car in the sun and wash it - wax it - use it. It's not going to be a garrage queen. How much does panel replacement affect the value? That's the question. Other than lets make sure there isn't something else lurking.

Thanks guys

If resale is a concern for you buy one that has not had any paint work.
If you sell it, the next buyer maybe thinking the way you are now.

 

[tbromley]

Hi Guys,

I want to thank everyone for thier support in all this. But there are 2 things going on here in this case. On depreciation to the car: the insurance companies on high end exotics would fix the car and pay something for depreciation. I have a friend with a Ford GT, you know the awesome one, and he said if his car had been damaged, he'd get it fixed and ask the insurance company for 30k in depreciation and sell the car. You see folks that look at high end exotics want pristine non wrecked cars that have only factory paint. Now granted the Ford GT is a $160k car and deprecitation due to a fender bender is a lot, on the NSX it would be less but it would still be depreciated. This was originally a lease car and the owner I've been dealing with bought it off lease with 9k miles on it and it now has about 30k on it since 2005.

Second thing here is the guy out there that told me about the missing sticker and who I've been trying to negotiate a price with has basically just a while ago, blown me off. He gave me no definite time when he might get it on a lift to the dealer or wherever to determine the extent of the damage, he said he'd do it when he did the Timing Belt and Water Pump which was part of my negotiation. He wanted 47,500 for the car which in my opinion is top dollar for the car and for top dollar you would expect a perfect car and one that had it's maintenance up to date. His isn't perfect and it didn't have the maintenance up to date. I didn't know about the perfect part till yesterday, but I knew about the TB/WP issue and that was part of my negotiations to him. He had also repainted the bumper - not a biggy to some but the car only had 29k on it. So anyway, who knows what is lurking here. I suspect that he didn't want to sell it to me cause I'm too knowledgeable about these cars and maybe he didn't want me to come out there and discover that the vin number sticker wasn't on the fender. So he's blown me off, actually in a very disingenuine way in my opinion. I'm the only serious buyer he's had in 4 months - go figure.

I would be pissed at his attitude but I've been around too long to worry bout silly stuff like this. If I miss one another will be along in a short while, just like buses. And too, I believe that the right one is out there and I'll find it. Everyone is getting hit with less than they want for all cars they're selling - period. Times are hard and they ain't getting any easier anytime soon. This guy may not really even want to sell it, his wife was forcing the issue. Not a problem, I'm on down the road at this point. Don't care if I hear from him again.

As they say "onward"! I'm off to the next one. Thanks to all for supporting me. Thanks to you bangbang I appreciate you.

Tim
Atlanta

 

[tbromley]

Guys,

This is a follow up to my last post. I want to vindicate the owner of the car I was looking at. He didn't blow me off. He just didn't want his problems to become my problems. He also didn't want others calling him about the car untill he found out more info. On the way home today he took it by his favorite body shop and they put it up on a lift and there were obvious signs apparently that it had been on a "frame rack" - man that doesn't sound good at all does it. He asked me not to be mad at him, and that he'd probably saved me. Said he felt like a fool and didn't know what to say other than he felt the car was devalued as a result of the damage and if it was substantial then he'd be better off keeping it till it died.

Imagine that, now that guys is an honest man!!! You don't find too many of them like that anymore. I'm lucky - very lucky cause I don't know if I'd have noticed it any more than he did till just now. He bought it from the Acura dealer in town that he'd been doing business with into the last century. He's had many Acuras and they took it back in from a lease I guess, I'm not really sure but it was leased I just don't know if it was from them or someone else and they just ended up with the car and then passed it along. He said that apparently the repairs had been done very well as he couldn't tell anything from driving it and he's had another one before this one. So I guess he knows how they're supposed to feel. Not sure.

What does this sound like to you all, how much do you think something like this really devalues a car??? Anyone have any thoughts on this??? I know one thing it would be hard to sell if you were honest about it.

I'm actually very sorry for him. He's really a nice guy. I'm worn out from it all I'll tell you. It's been rather an emotional roller coaster for me and him. Too bad actually cause otherwise it is a nice looking car.

Your thoughts please gentlemen. I appreciate you!

Tim