Prospective owner / forum newbie

[captngaryr]

I am going through the irrational process to buy an Acura NSX as a weekend cruiser and have two questions:

#1. What is your opinion on the investment / collector car value of the NSX? Would you expect the value to remain constant over time, go up or go down.

#2 There are a couple of interesting NSXs at StradaCars.com listed on this site. Any opinion on the dealer? Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, etc.?

I have had sports cars before, but this will be my first exotic. Any useful information would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Gary

 

[kennyc]

Hello Gary,

IMO like all cars, NSX is not a good place to grow your money. I bought a NSX because I want to enjoy it. Even though the price has been relatively steady for the past 5-10 years.. it's impossible to predict what the future may hold.

If you get a NSX you get a car that's way before it's time, excellent handling, fast enough, stands out wherever you go, and the reliability of a Honda. If the car sells more than you paid for down the road I'd see that as a bonus.

Kenny

 

[captngaryr]

Hi Kenny,
I hope I didn't misrepresent my self. I'm not a car investor, but with a car as expensive as the NSX, depreciation is a big concern. On the other hand, an NSX is all I have ever wanted (lusted for). IMO, the NSX is the prettiest car ever built. That includes all exotics (honorable mention goes to the Testarosa). Since I first saw one in '91, I've wanted one. It's an NSX or nothing for me. Thanks for the input.

Gary

 

[kennyc]

I understand, you're at the right place buddy!

As far as I can tell NSX's resale value has been pretty steady for at least the last 5 years.. If the past is any indication of the future (which I don't it is.) and in addition to no excessive mileage/wear and tear when you sell it. IMO NSX will not lose you too much money.

With that said, you should also factor in inflation and maintenance/repair cost. Ask me how I know the latter.

 

[Liquid]

Hi Kenny,
I hope I didn't misrepresent my self. I'm not a car investor, but with a car as expensive as the NSX, depreciation is a big concern. On the other hand, an NSX is all I have ever wanted (lusted for). IMO, the NSX is the prettiest car ever built. That includes all exotics (honorable mention goes to the Testarosa). Since I first saw one in '91, I've wanted one. It's an NSX or nothing for me. Thanks for the input.

Gary

Hi Gary,

I see a lot of similarities between your thought process and mine prior to purchasing the NSX. I always wanted an NSX from the day they came out. For me, it has the perfect blend of a number of characteristics (performance, reliability, handling, styling, resale, etc.).

Nearly every car, except super rare collector cars in perfect original condition with absurdly low miles, lose value. The type of person that owns such a car almost by definition doesn't use it (because that would cause loss of a LOT of value). If you are not this type of collector, which you have said you are not, then you must consider the NSX will lose value as time passes and as you use it.

Since I am not a collector, I did not go in to an NSX with the mind that it wouldn't lose value. What I said to myself is how much is this car likely to cost me to own (including depreciation) per year. Once you understand that, then ask yourself if you would be okay with writing a $X,XXX check every year to pay for the ownership and use of the car. If the answer is yes, then good luck in finding your NSX.

 

[99NCNSX]

Gary,

It sounds like you (as so many NSX owners do) appreciate the NSX for what it is.

In my mind, that alone is justification for purchase. Some thoughts I have about the investment side of the purchase:

Few cars can ever be seen as a true "money making investment". When you consider the annual cost of licensing, insurance, maintenance, storage, repairs etc. - it just doesn't add up. If you are looking at taking $50k and turn it into $75k in about 10 years+, go find a good no-load mutual fund. The problem is that you can't take that mutual fund out for an invigorating drive through some twisty roads, or drive to a Saturday afternoon cruise and show off your gleaming sports car.

Now that doesn't mean that the NSX doesn't have the potential to maintain or even increase it's value in the future. You can search the forum for several media stories about the potential of the NSX as a classic or collectable car.
Further, if you have read any articles about the characteristics of collectable cars, the NSX has them all. Starting with limited production - first all aluminum production car - hand built construction - first Japanese supercar, etc etc -the list goes on.

Add to this the fact that the NSX is (when compared to most exotic/supercar brands) a reasonable car to own and maintain. In my opinion there are few other sports cars in the market that can compare when you run the numbers.

And finally, when all is said and done, it comes down to what lights your fire.

Oh, and when you take your NSX to a car show or cruise night, you can bet that unless you have called up some your fellow NSX owners to meet you, you won't see but one NSX at the show!

John

 

[captngaryr]

Hi John,
You obviously understand where I'm comimg from. I'm not interested in making money on this. I'm a sports car nut first and always have been. On the other hand, if the car were to loose 50% of it's value in 5 years, it would really drive up the cost of ownership. If the car were to maintain most of its value and most of the cost were simply maintenance, insurance, etc., then I'm good with that.

I went for a 15 mile trip the other day and saw at least 5 red Corvettes. Didn't see a single NSX. That appeals to me. I can buy a new Corvette for the price of an 8 year old NSX. I'd much rather have the NSX.

Any thoughts on Autostrada and the 3 NSXs the are offering?

Thanks,
Gary

 

[syam]

i have been following nsx prices for a few years now, and as stated, the older vehicles (NA1 - 1991-1996) have held their value pretty well. the newer cars still have a little bit of depreciating to do, but have also held pretty constant.

i found the vehicles you were looking at.

2003 silverstone, 29055miles, $52,888: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124101

2000 monaco blue, 31894miles, $47,888: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124089

1992 red, 23431miles, $36,888obo: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123853

i believe all 3 vehicles are overpriced. they seem to all be in good condition, if not excellent condition, but because of the current economic market, even nsx prices have fallen.

prices i have seen are as follows. everything now is closer to the lower ends of the ranges.

good condition NA1 coupe (91-94) with moderate miles (75k) between $25-$30k.
good condition NA1-T (95-96) with moderate miles (60k) anywhere from $30-$35k
NA2-T (97-01) with moderate miles (40k) from $35k-$45k
NA2-T (02-05) with moderate miles (25k) from $45k-$55k

the 2003 silverstone could probably go a few grand lower, the 2000 monaco blue should be closer to $42k, and the 1992 red should be closer to $30.

 

[mlambert890]

Be careful with broad generalizations though...

The 02-05s above? The 45k range consists of two categories..
One is bangbang's car, the others are cars that are a disaster.

Bangbang got stuck because of the yellow/yellow - no other reason.

Ive tried very very hard over the past few months to fnd a decent, honest, 02+ in the 40s and its not happening. I had seen a lot of advice about how prices fell and it could be done. Look into any of these cars and you find accident history, washed titles, extensive paintwork, etc. It actually became a joke between my friend (who helps me look) and I. "Does the NSX just ATTRACT accidents?!"

A *clean*, genuine and HONESTLY clean, NSX is a rare thing and goes for a lot more than the above would suggest.

I think long (LONG) term (like 10 years+), the NSX will have collector appeal. Especially since SO many of the ones I've seen are a disaster. There were fewer than 8000 sent to the US. Its amazing how few are left with a genuine clean history. If you can spend the money to get a truly good one with verifiable history that hasnt passed through 50 auctions and you can keep the mileage reasonable, I think you will find that after a long time of ownership you may have lost less money than you'll almost surely lose on any mutual funds (not sure about you guys, but I dont own an MF that hasnt been in the red for the past 5 quarters)

The key is to find a good one though and that is not easy at all. If you want a genuine 02+ expect to have to get close to 60k. If you want a genuine 97+ you're going to be in the 40s. Truly good 91 and 92s are upper 20s to low 30s. 93-96 tend to be in the 30s.

Thats realistic pricing from my observations trying to actually buy a good one for the past few months and, comparing to the last time I was in the market for a pre-owned NSX (2001), the prices actually seem a bit higher. Now if you dont care about cars that have clearly had extensive collison work, then you can fall to the lower end of the ranges above.

Strada isnt budging, btw. I tried on the blue one and on the red one. I've found that pretty much every dealer Ive seen seems insulted when I make an initial offer that is 10% lower.

The car that is at Peabody Acura has a paint work history that can be tracked on the forums, hasnt had timing belt done, has 43k miles and is on their site for $40k. When I offered $38k with the condition that the TB and WP got done, the "internet manager" actually became a rude ass. Never called back and when I called them back he basically said my offer was "ridiculous".

The car is now down to $39k (I guess the "buyer" he said he had fell though ) The problem though is that I am SURE this car is about to sell to someone who buys it sight unseen. And this is a car that has paintwork documented here from when it happened and has "high" mileage.

 

[tbromley]

Hi, to the guy that is looking,

While I agree with SpookyP that the prices of the cars you turned up are a bit high - but only because they are at a dealer. The prices he quotes do not take a lot into consideration as in condition - his prices are low ball prices and I bet if you looked for cars in the price range he quotes you'll end up with either too many miles on the car or a car that needs a lot from deffered maintenance as will most likely be the case with any car you find - no doubt.

If you buy a late model NSX you will suffer depreciating values over time that will be more substantial than the early models because the early models are almost depreciated to max and so they'll loose little over the next 5 to 10 years if properly maintained. You'll find that the predominance of cars for sale on the market now have deffered maintenance issues if not ALL! Be prepared to spend 5k to 7k on those items as if you were buying a Porsche - that's the same you'd expect there. Now if you buiy one on the low end and sink 5k into it - like I did - and end up with a great conditioned car between 91 and 94 with around 34k in it you'll do just fine. The later the car the better the condition should be but the timing belt/water pump/coolant hoses is arount 1500+ and maybe more depending on who you use and it's a time as well as mile issue. So if it's been 7 or so years since that's been done - like it was in my case- then you have to do that. If the clutch is needed in a later 3.2 model the flywheel and clutch can be as high as 4k. So you get the drift and clutches depending on how they're used can be good for a long time or not.

There is a lot to consider about maintenance - research it thoroughly - the NSX in all years is a great car. So buying right and figuring on some bucks to get it right (5k isn't a bad figure) or you could get lucky and it could all be done but those cars will not be on the low end of the scale - pay up front or after purchase but you will pay one way or the other.

In the end you get a great car - obviously if you buy now you could get lucky with prices being down and get a 2002 + year car for around high 40s and it would be a good car you could drive a long time and not loose too much but you will most likely loose money on the car cause they all depreciate in value and maintenance.

Get a pre purchase inspection if you buy from someone individual or a dealer too. Dealers don't have the best cars - the maintenance is sketchy as in records and many dealers don't even know what is needed - especially these small dealers that sell cars at a premium due to low mileage regardless of maintenance history - not a good way to buy. The best is an individual that has lots of records and history is fully known and verifiable thru records. That's good advice whether you're buying a Porsche or an NSX. It's the same rigor no matter what. Just because it's a Honda doesn't mean it doesn't need maintenance.

There are good cars out there - you'll find some but if you do your homework and know a good mechanic that you have ultimate confidence in that knows the NSXs well - you'll have a good chance at getting into and maintaining a great car. Sports cars cost - that's the bottom line. You won't loose your ass - the NSX has the best resale of any "exotic" I know of.

You'll love the experience. They are truly marvelous machines.

Tim

 

[mlambert890]

Hi, to the guy that is looking,

While I agree with SpookyP that the prices of the cars you turned up are a bit high - but only because they are at a dealer. The prices he quotes do not take a lot into consideration as in condition - his prices are low ball prices and I bet if you looked for cars in the price range he quotes you'll end up with either too many miles on the car or a car that needs a lot from deffered maintenance as will most likely be the case with any car you find - no doubt.

Actually, you and I are in agreement. I was saying to expect to pay a lot more than what broinkrist was quoting if you want a car that hasnt been hit.

Stradas prices may be ok IF those cars are clean. I didnt go to actually take a look at any of them as I did a quick search on the dealership and some red flags were raised (for me).

 

[captngaryr]

Wow! This forum rocks! You all have been so incredibly helpful!

SpookyP,
will you share where you found the "red flags" on Autostrada?

Thanks so much. I will keep you informed on my progress.

Gary

 

[ChopsJazz]

Personally, I don't like to talk about the NSX in terms of resale value and depreciation. Of course the NSX will depreciate over time. There are very few cars in the world that do not. But for me, and likely many on this forum, the NSX is a driver's car, even if only on the weekends.

I bought the car to keep and drive and enjoy. I have piled over 100K miles on it in the last ten years and plan to put at least that many more on it in the next ten. If I ever (and I hope I don't) get to the point where I have to sell it, I would certainly expect it to have lost some of it's dollar value. The NSX's real value lies in what it does for me, and others, on the road and on the track.

Buy the car for what you determine to be a fair value. Drive it, enjoy it. It will depreciate in dollar value, but it will grow in personal value.

my .02

 

[anesthesia]

Very well said ChopsJazz, i bought the NSX not thinking that it will eventually goes up in values, but the price will maintain very well compare to other exotic, the main reason and im lucky to have own one is the feeling of driving this unique,exclusive,hand built machine,and the feeling of driving it is just priceless. Life is way to short, if the NSX is your dream car, and if you have the mean to buy one, i say go for it, enjoy it.

 

[Aaron94T]

Wow! This forum rocks! You all have been so incredibly helpful!

SpookyP,
will you share where you found the "red flags" on Autostrada?

Thanks so much. I will keep you informed on my progress.

Gary

I second this, what red flags did you find. I looked at the Blue car and tried to work on the price and he would not budge. I told him it was 09 and not 08 so the pricing has dropped. He said it would be sold in a month so he is not worried. That was 3 weeks ago.

 

[tbromley]

Remember, paitience....although that is more easily said than done. I have almost none. However, if you do then don't worry about the dealer car unless blue is YOUR color. Then you may have to deal - but otherwise that car will most likely be around a lot longer than a month.

I looked for 3 mos and in that time many of them were still for sale but if it's a really good car then it may go. I looked at the monaco blue car and it's in excellent shape at least to look at it. It's a 2001 which means that the timing belt and water pump and hoses are due for replacement and I would always check the clutch for good operation cause the clutch and flywheel for this model is around 4k. Otherwise what else could be wrong? They lowered the price to 46,800 or so and that's high unless all the service is up to date and I can bet it's not - it never is and hence one of the reasons for sale. Quiz the dealer on that - if he doesn't have the records of service that would indicate that - he can find out - don't let him BS you. The clutch is something you should check by driving it - if you know what a good clutch feels like.

So say the clutch is good and the TB/WP/hoses haven't been done - fluids etc, then budget that by deducting it from the sales price and offer him that. He should take it. If he doesn't have any service records, which is the reason I don't like dealers cause he probably got this at an auction, then there is no way to check and then if you like it offer him 2000 less than he's asking - and then work on him. Bout the best advice I can give.

Tim

 

[rbilder]

Many on here can attest to Tim's patience and hunt of his NSX. He did well though at not caving into the pressure to just buy something... I don't believe I've seen pictures yet :biggrin: (but that will be another thread)

The older NA1's I don't believe will drop much in value. Value depends on the condition, miles, etc. As for increasing in value... anybody have a crystal ball???

I was bored this past weekend and went out to see what a 69' Plymouth Superbird was going for... yikes!!! I saw one for $399k, several for $150k or above... I told my dad he should buy one of those :smile:

The newer NSX's will depreciate more, but the older ones more than likely will require more maintenance. Which is cheaper than other exotics, but can still be fairly pricey. Like Tim mentioned, spent $4k to $5k.

These are all used cars now and compared if a person were to buy anything new... now there is depreciation.

Count any depreciation/maintenance cost as just ENTERTAINMENT expenses :biggrin:

I love mine, lots of fun, and very unique, not to mention a piece of art. And being aluminum not much to rust out... so more may survive (supply & demand could play a part in value down the road).

I still have yet to see another one on the road.

I have owned mine about 18 months and I am confident I could sell it for what I paid and I suspect maybe even a little more... which would actually be a little less or break even by the time I paid the sales tax (ouch).

Good luck & keep us posted . . .

 

[raicoeurosoccer]

Very good conversation by all,i enjoy reading it and learning from everyone!!
Great points by all and i would add that this last year spring of 2008 till now it has been a great opportunity,the best byuers market to buy an N.S.X!
The combination of the economy and some owners needing money so they are selling their toys,and no one lending money,has made the cars to stay on the market for a long time,and then forcing the prices to drop has made it a buyers market for those who have at least 50% cash to buy the N.S.X.
Those who want to buy and need a big loan,they are still having a very hard time to get a loan because banks are very carefull to lend money out unless you have a great fico score!
I have been looking to buy for 6 months now,i have called many financial institutions for a loan and they all vary from one to another.
The other problem like someone else said,there are a lot of crap out there,like the one i saw in Addison Ill last weekend!!
The bottom line is to have the discipline to get the one you dream of at a fair price,be patient be persistent and do not cave in to get one for the sake of getting one like i almost did cause you will regret it later ( i keep telling my self that),be good,Raico

 

[99NCNSX]

Any thoughts on Autostrada and the 3 NSXs the are offering?

Thanks,
Gary[/QUOTE]


Gary, I am currently in the eastern PA area on business and plan on stopping by Autostrada sometime tomorrow. in addition to looking at the 3 NSX's they have, I will try to size up their dealership. You can usually get a sense of just how honest they are from the attitude of the salesman.

I'll let you know what I find tomorrow evening.

John

 

[captngaryr]

I talked to Autostrada yesterday (7/28) and the Monoco Blue NSX is sold.:frown:. The other two are still for sale, but not the cars for me. To be continued.

Gary

 

[Dr.Honda]

a couple thoughts:
NSX prices are very good right now (if you're a buyer, that is), esp. for the '02+ cars.
I think the early NA1 cars are probably pretty close to the bottom of their depreciation, that is, I don't see them going much (if any) lower.
If you buy from a botique dealer like Autostrada, don't expect them to know much about the cars, either the marque itself or that car's particular history. Many of the cars they sell are trade-ins or purchased at auctions. You can still get a good deal there, just make sure you do your homework.
Look for a car that's been on their inventory for awhile. There is usually one naggling issue that is slowing the sale down and the dealer is losing alot of money the longer he sits on it. Pounce w/ a low-ball offer, he may just take it. That is how I picked up my '04, my car's issue was high mileage...
Good luck in your search.

 

[Leongboy]

All cars are depreciating assets. Cars are very poor investments. you willnever get your money back for mods, repairs etc. Do not buy for an investment. Buy instead for the utility or enjoyment of ownership. this is invaluble.

 

[garyb]

I wish I still had the 1960 Porsche roadster that I once had and sold for $32,000 just a few years ago and now is worth over $75,000.
I dont agree that all cars are depreciating assets or poor investments.
I do agree that its best to buy for the enjoyment of the car.

I do feel that the NSX will go up in value over the years.
(That is as long as we still have gas to put in it).

 

[captngaryr]

John,
I see that AutoStrada has relisted the Monoco Blue NSX. Did you ever get over to take a look?

Thanks,
Gary

 

[mlambert890]

Wow! This forum rocks! You all have been so incredibly helpful!

SpookyP,
will you share where you found the "red flags" on Autostrada?

Thanks so much. I will keep you informed on my progress.

Gary

I did the usual internet sleuthing and found a bunch of disatisfied customer rants on various "review this business" sites.

Thats kind of normal, but I looked through them and wasnt so sure... You always find someone who is pissed off, and sometimes they even seem kind of crazy and you feel bad for the business, but in this case there were some level headed folks who had pretty lousy experiences (car history not as described, poor handling of bad situations, etc) and there were also some things about the owner, I believe.

I decided to steer clear. Things change though and even a bad dealer can stumble on a great car, so I'd say its worth checking out anyway if the cars are very good and you can reach a price you are comfortable with.

EDIT: Here you go.. This one in particular weighed heavily on my decision to steer clear:

http://cellphoneforums.net/cars/t237111-scott-lindenbaum-autostrada-lying-thieves.html

Looking around after that lead me to a few like this:

http://www.tristatetuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26448