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Lots of questions on pricing, so I finally put together a rough guide to NSX market values. Keep in mind this is a GUIDE, not a BIBLE. http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/BuySell/pricing.htm
Pricing
- Thread starter Lud
- Start date
Lud,
You Da Man !
------------------
ALL NSX
92 RED/BLACK 5-SPEED
You Da Man !
------------------
ALL NSX
92 RED/BLACK 5-SPEED
Lud,
First, I think the idea is great.
Second, I totally agree with how you've got the '91-96 cars classified.
However, I would make some changes to your classification of the '97 and later cars.
On the '97-99, you've got:
$40,000 - $45,000 some '97s with very high miles and issues
$45,000 - $50,000 some '97s in medium condition or minor issues
$50,000 - $55,000 '97s with high miles, some later models with issues
$55,000 - $60,000 '97-99 with low to moderate miles
$60,000 - $65,000 '97-99 with very low miles and good condition
Your description of the '97 cars in the $45-50K category sounds better than that of the $50-55K category! Obviously, needs some tweaking.
Also, prices have dropped on the '00-01 cars, due to the drops in the '97-99 as well as the bargain prices on the '02. I have had two different people tell me that wholesalers are quoting $56-58K on an ultra-low mileage 2000, which means retail is in the low sixties, not the high sixties.
I would change these descriptions to the following:
$40,000 - $45,000 Moderate '95-'96 NSX-Ts, some '97s with very high miles and issues
$45,000 - $50,000 Very good condition and low mile '95-'96 NSX-Ts, some '97s with high miles or minor issues
$50,000 - $55,000 '97s with low to moderate miles, '98-99 with above-average miles or minor issues
$55,000 - $60,000 '98-99 with low to moderate miles, '00-01 with above-average miles or minor issues
$60,000 - $65,000 '00-01 with low miles and mint condition
HTH
First, I think the idea is great.
Second, I totally agree with how you've got the '91-96 cars classified.
However, I would make some changes to your classification of the '97 and later cars.
On the '97-99, you've got:
$40,000 - $45,000 some '97s with very high miles and issues
$45,000 - $50,000 some '97s in medium condition or minor issues
$50,000 - $55,000 '97s with high miles, some later models with issues
$55,000 - $60,000 '97-99 with low to moderate miles
$60,000 - $65,000 '97-99 with very low miles and good condition
Your description of the '97 cars in the $45-50K category sounds better than that of the $50-55K category! Obviously, needs some tweaking.
Also, prices have dropped on the '00-01 cars, due to the drops in the '97-99 as well as the bargain prices on the '02. I have had two different people tell me that wholesalers are quoting $56-58K on an ultra-low mileage 2000, which means retail is in the low sixties, not the high sixties.
I would change these descriptions to the following:
$40,000 - $45,000 Moderate '95-'96 NSX-Ts, some '97s with very high miles and issues
$45,000 - $50,000 Very good condition and low mile '95-'96 NSX-Ts, some '97s with high miles or minor issues
$50,000 - $55,000 '97s with low to moderate miles, '98-99 with above-average miles or minor issues
$55,000 - $60,000 '98-99 with low to moderate miles, '00-01 with above-average miles or minor issues
$60,000 - $65,000 '00-01 with low miles and mint condition
HTH
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Looks like I mixed up a cut-and-paste on the '97s. I'll fix that today.
Point me to actual retail sales for the '00 and '01 cars in the low 60's and I'll look at revising those. The last ones I've heard of are not at that price point. In fact I know of a mint '00 car that sold for $70k recently.
Point me to actual retail sales for the '00 and '01 cars in the low 60's and I'll look at revising those. The last ones I've heard of are not at that price point. In fact I know of a mint '00 car that sold for $70k recently.
I often use Autotrader as a guide. What I do is this. I pull all the listings for a given year. I ignore the pricing in the top 40 percent of the listings as "wishful thinking", since anyone can post a ridiculous asking price that has no relationship to the market. (Such cars may include customized or modded cars that may or may not justify a substantial premium over market.) I ignore all the auction listings included (since those are just bids that may not represent sales at those prices), and look at the rest as reasonable data points. I then take into account the fact that selling prices are typically 5-10 percent less than asking prices, since sellers are expected to be willing to haggle down from their listed price.
Right now there are 30 2000 cars listed on Autotrader with asking prices, excluding auctions and one duplicate listing. Two have 30K miles and asking prices under $60K. Four have prices in the $65-66K range (mileage 2K, 6K, 17K, 34K), five in the $67-68K range, and six more $68-70K. Based on this information, I would be willing to bet that you could negotiate and buy at least eight of these cars for $64K or less, including several with low miles. And, since the cars are so new, I would not expect condition to be a major factor, since all of them ought to be in excellent condition.
How about using Ebay as a guide as a second guide/source to Autotrader.com? Do ebay prices only reflect extreme cases or outliers? I was shocked to find a guy who purchased his 2000 NSX with 13k miles for $50k after making a direct offer to the seller. Also, it seems as if ebay buyers are "really" looking for a bargain. I don't know what your opinion on this is.
I don't consider eBay to be an accurate gauge of the marketplace. Prices on eBay tend to be somewhat on the low side, and my guess is that this is due to the added risk of the car not being accurately represented. Also, many cars don't meet their reserve price - whether that's because the reserve is higher than market, or because no one wanted to pay market for that particular car that week, your guess is as good as mine.
eBay is good for many things, but I don't consider it a good representation of the market.
eBay is good for many things, but I don't consider it a good representation of the market.
- Joined
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OK, take a look at 2.0 of the guide and let me know what you think. It is a little less vague. To be honest I am somewhat fuzzy on exactly what the ceiling is for museum-quality early '90s car just because I know of so few that have changed hands in the last few years. I think it may be higher than I have indicated, but those cars may fall under the category of "too few and far between to try and include on this chart".
BTW, having looked extensively at '97-'99 cars during '99 and '00, I can tell you with great certainty that many 1-3 year old cars with under 30k miles are, indeed, trashed. I was shocked at how many, actually.
As for eBay, I agree it is not a source of good data for real-world pricing.
[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 15 October 2002).]
BTW, having looked extensively at '97-'99 cars during '99 and '00, I can tell you with great certainty that many 1-3 year old cars with under 30k miles are, indeed, trashed. I was shocked at how many, actually.
As for eBay, I agree it is not a source of good data for real-world pricing.
[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 15 October 2002).]
Lud,
I definitely have to give you two thumbs up for your input on pricing. That has to be the one of the most complete pricing sources I have ever seen!
Thank you.
I definitely have to give you two thumbs up for your input on pricing. That has to be the one of the most complete pricing sources I have ever seen!
Thank you.
I think the chart looks great and you've pretty much got everything nailed down right.
BTW, somewhere you might want to indicate what "low miles", "average miles", and "high miles" represent. On an NSX, I consider 5K miles per year to be about average. However, it seems like there aren't that many with average miles; most of them tend to be either low (2-3K per year) or high (10K per year or more).
BTW, somewhere you might want to indicate what "low miles", "average miles", and "high miles" represent. On an NSX, I consider 5K miles per year to be about average. However, it seems like there aren't that many with average miles; most of them tend to be either low (2-3K per year) or high (10K per year or more).
Lud- again thanks for the revised update. For folks like me looking for to purchase this is extremely helpful. New 2002 with low miles are going below invoice.
Re the word "trashed"- a chill went up my spine when you wrote that description of 97-99s. Could you expound on this a little? Thanks again for the help.
Re the word "trashed"- a chill went up my spine when you wrote that description of 97-99s. Could you expound on this a little? Thanks again for the help.
Lud,
One suggestion.
Put a date, or, at the very least, a time reference (e.g. Fall, '02) on your chart.
As time goes by those prices will need to be modified. If the matrix is NOT updated, at least the date/time period will let people referring to the chart know when those prices were "real".
One suggestion.
Put a date, or, at the very least, a time reference (e.g. Fall, '02) on your chart.
As time goes by those prices will need to be modified. If the matrix is NOT updated, at least the date/time period will let people referring to the chart know when those prices were "real".
Personally, the fact that the former owner of the car I now own was its original and had every service record in hand, which of course went w/the car was the key to its sale. Nice work Lud, thank you.
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