Price Advice '92 JH4NA1150NT001124

Sounds like to me you are gonna buy it even though its not the right car. you say yeah all this is going thru my head but its really not.. you might be jumping into an NSX thats gonna cost you your left hand and one Nut.

we have NSX's and we have all been down the road you are walking now.

Lucky for me I havent really had that many problems with mine.
my tranny is in snap ring range but I got the car with over 100K miles and if it has not failed 99.9% chance it never will. but I know a guy that his broke at 128K so im not in the clear yet.

master/slave 890
the hoses can run you about 1000.
tranny rebuild /possible snapring 2500
ac flush, new compressor 800
possible clutch 1500 for just the OEM clutch (parts only)
new tires 700 balanced,
Bose speakers repaired by Briank 300
total so far 7690.00 and thats not even the half the labor included and the list goes on and on.

yeah you just want the car. but then when someone asks hows the NSX
your gonna compare it to a boat ( Break Out Another Thousand )
we are tring to save you or get you to only offer a set ammount.

but we cant stop you from JUMPING as we know your about to do.

so good luck as you will do what your gonna do.

another story when I was getting my first car I went to the honda dealer thinking 1993 accord 5-speed and sunroof, got the first one i saw 5-speed no sunroof, went back the next day to get new floormats, Bang there was this 93 black 5-speed with sunroof. wow if I would have waited one more day I would have had the car i wanted.
 
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Thanks for your guys' words and time.

Have a few questions for you guys.

Based on the condition of the car from what has been gathered here,
what would you guys offer for this car?

For a pristine white NA1 NSX, with low miles and no deferred maintenance, what would you guys consider to be a fair/accurate asking price? what would you guys be willing to pay for that car? (to that effect, any pristine NA1 NSX)

How often are white NA1 NSX's for sale? How many of those are in stock, pristine condition?
(
I've seen two white NA1's for sale here on Prime since I've joined.
This one that has low mileage and a lot of mods going for $45,000.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137080

This one that had higher miles and was in moderate condtion and had swapped multiple owners recently, but had TB/WP/clutch replaced and exhaust/HID that sold for $28,000 (according to LoveNSXs, as it was bought out from under him).
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137785

On AutoTrader, throughout the whole country there are four.
This heavily modified, higher mileage NA1/2 hybrid going for $59,900.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...&doors=&max_price=&cardist=996&standard=false

Another heavily modified, moderate-higher mileage NA1/2 hybrid being sold for $38,500.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...doors=&max_price=&cardist=1588&standard=false

This questionably modified, moderate mileage NA1 asking $33,950.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...doors=&max_price=&cardist=1975&standard=false

And the one I'm looking at.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...&doors=&max_price=&cardist=485&standard=false
)


Has anyone bought their older NSX and not have to do any maintenance work afterwards (immediately/near future)? If the maintenance was taken care of prior to purchase, how did that factor in to the selling price?

Who here has/had bought their NSX with the intention of never selling it? Do you daily drive the NSX or drive it occasionally? Do any of you do your own work on your NSX? Are the savings in labor worth doing it yourself?


I'm not sure what I may come off sounding like, but these are some honest questions and I would like to hear everybody's opinions/answers.


As far as the NSX in question, I'm still thinking over what to do about it.
At the moment, the price has been reduced to $28,500.

Either way, I am thinking it is worth it to fly down there and take a look at the car myself, give it a test drive, and get a feel for it; to see if it's something I want to get involved with, even if I just end up walking away from it.


side note- Shawn, that list of repair/replacement items, is that what you have you gotten done yourself? or is that a list of what you assess on the NSX I'm looking at? (I think it's regarding the NSX I'm looking at, but I'm not sure why the clutch and speakers are being listed.)
 
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Put it this way... the value for this car is in the color and the low miles. Everything else is up in the air because of the lack of maintenance records... along with being in snap ring range. I think their asking price is too much. If you're willing to put down the extra money to basically renew a rare NSX then by all means go for it. It really does come down to money and if you're willing to spend it.

There's a 2000 black rebuilt/salvaged NSX with 50k miles or so for 30k in Sarasota that is probably in better condition than this car and even that is overpriced. But it's a matter of what is desirable to you. If you really want a white with low miles and are willing to put forth the money then this is the car for you.

Would I pay 28k for this car? No. And white is my favorite color. Just some food for thought.
 
No I have not done any of the things I mentioned on my car except the timing belt/water pump belt tentioner, valve adjust, 2700

Had the ABS master slave replaced I think that was 890
The speakers I mentioned they probably have never been replaced. The first time you crank them up its going to burn those 20+ year old amps up.

The stereo system in my NSX is custom built by me so I didn’t have to replace them cuz I wasn’t using them.

All the things I mentioned were items of interest in this White NSX you are looking at
If they can’t PROVE these items have been replaced then Assume they have not been done.

and plan on having it done
 
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Thanks BlackWindEXE.

Thanks Shawn. (I am assuming that none of the items have been replaced.)






Once again, I ask this, how much would you guys offer for this car, realistically?
 
Ahhhh, the price, the $64,000 question (and that little referrence dates me way back -sorry most of you may be too young to remember the $64,000 question - hint -on an old TV show) yes, the price, mmmmmm, let me see now (as I pull out the crystal ball) - it's tough to peg that but in an ideal world with a reasonable dealer (and I say that because there ain't one) and an "owner" that has yet to make himself known with any records under some type " of hidden scammin thing they've cooked up" - does the previous owner really exist? - I would say $25,000. That price I just gave you is most likely not going to get this car for you.

That's right, cause what the fair market value of a car like this is with super low miles on a 20 year old car in probably the most sought after color is so hard to peg. You see this is what I found out when I was looking and believe me I found some real low milers - as in 15k miles on a 93 - and although the one I mention had no body damage - was really perfect - it had no maintenance records - none what so ever - and you knew that going in. It had no TB/WP/Hoses/brake flushes/ or any other real maintenance that it should have had by that time. The dealer wanted like 40k for it. The question really is what is the car going to bring and sometimes you have to let things go.

What I don't like about this one is not the color and surely not the low miles and pristine interior, it's the fact that it's had body damage of an undesclosed nature and a previous owner that wants someone to agree to a price without having any of "his" records. Couple that with a dealer in between and you have a bad combo for deal making. Like who is this previous owner the dealer keeps talking to, but will not talk with a really serious buyer? That just irratates the hell out of me and you too Jason, I'm sure.

Sometimes when deals like this come along you just have to put your foot down and tell the dealer this deal isn't going in the direction you want as in full disclosure by the previous owner. The lack of a desire on the dealers part to work with you in some REAL way - that just sucks and really makes it tough on you cause you really would like this car and this type of dealing really brings your emotions into it at an ever increasing rate - cause you are getting worried that you may loose this one. That's just what the dealer is COUNTING ON!!!! Remember that - they know just how to play this tune cause they've done it over and over. It's the old good cop bad cop thing - kind of.

There is a thread on Prime right now about a guy that is trying to sell his red NSX and had some damage and that is making it very difficult for him to get what he "thinks" the car is worth. So Jason, before you just get to the point of "slapping the leather ANYWAY" despite all your good common sense telling you that maybe this is not the one - take a chill pill. Talk to an insurance company - like your own - and ask them what a car like this has been devalued because of body damage - their actuaries can damn sure tell you. Doesn't sound like the ppi that you had could really define the limits of the damage. It almost makes you want to take it to a really good body shop to see if they can tell you or find one and take the body man to the car. Something. You see Jason, it's damn tough for us out here without any more information than you can provide to tell you what the devaluation of the car is due to this damage!!! To some - this would be an immediate deal breaker!!! Immediate!

Jason, while it's true you can't roll back time or the odometer to put back the miles on a car after it's driven them - you can surely put a value on the devaluation of the damage to panels that require repainting of the original paint - which by the way there is no substitute for. This may be just a superficial accident of no real importance and therefore no big deal but you have to have evidence - SHOW ME - talk to me previous owner!

The mechanical stuff is just a thing - you can always replace a timing belt or water pump and hoses - those things are nothing to worry about - some of the leaks the PPI turned up are definitely a clue that not much has been done and that's to be expected cause it hasn't been driven a lot. You have no stack of receipts like I have - a folder full of I might add- so you're kind of in the dark here. That's not good in my opinion but only on one point - the body work. If you could get the previous owner to tell you about that and work with you a bit on the price - then you may be just fine with this one. I wouldn't do it unless that happens. Plain and simple - more disclosure or you walk - that's my advice.

Cars come and go - this is your dream -don't let someone screw it up for you just cause they have a low mile white NSX. There are others out there I assure you of that. Don't let this dealer and "owner" get the better of you! Take the reigns and tell him/them what you will or won't do and if they don't like it and won't disclose then the classic, time honored advice is to - WALK AWAY! That's the best advice anyone can give you at this point I think. Hope this helps,

Tim:wink:
 
Hold on I think i can get you the previous Owners name and number

which would help out if you could talk to the guy yourself
 
Has anyone bought their older NSX and not have to do any maintenance work afterwards (immediately/near future)? If the maintenance was taken care of prior to purchase, how did that factor in to the selling price?

Very rare that this happens. The only ones I know of are TheDon's old NSX, passline's 96 and Ken Sax's 91 that just went up for sale. All of these cars were totally up to date and needed nothing. Just buy and drive. Much more likely you will need to spend at least $3k to get there.

Who here has/had bought their NSX with the intention of never selling it? Do you daily drive the NSX or drive it occasionally? Do any of you do your own work on your NSX? Are the savings in labor worth doing it yourself?

Me. It is a weekend car for me. I am slowly restoring it to showroom condition. But I intend to drive it hard. It is a 10-year process. :) The only way I am selling is if we go bankrupt and need the cash. I do much of the work myself and find it fairly straightforward. Between the service manual and Prime, you can DIY a lot on this car. What I can't do, I take to LarryB. Either way I am saving $ from the stealership. :biggrin:

I'm not sure what I may come off sounding like, but these are some honest questions and I would like to hear everybody's opinions/answers.

These are good questions. It is good that you are taking your time to think through this.

As far as the NSX in question, I'm still thinking over what to do about it.
At the moment, the price has been reduced to $28,500.

Either way, I am thinking it is worth it to fly down there and take a look at the car myself, give it a test drive, and get a feel for it; to see if it's something I want to get involved with, even if I just end up walking away from it.

Definitely worth it to go take a look. $28,500 isn't too far off. Tim said $25,000 and I was going to say $26,000, considering the color and low miles. But lack of records is the problem. If there are no records, you need to assume it needs everything. That's at least $5000 based on what you've told us. If I were you, I would take the car for $27,000 and budget $5000 for maintenence. That puts it at $32,000, which is about right for a fully-up-to-date 92.

The clutch slave is leaking, so do it first. Do the master too, since it is probably not far behind (this is LarryB advice).

Monitor the transmission. If you have them pull the box to replace the input shaft seal, you might as well have them do the snap ring fix while it's out. It's basically a new upper case with a correct groove cut in it. Who knows, they may goodwill the part and/or labor.

Hoses and TB are not "right away" items. It's not like you will pull out of the lot and the car blows up. Many people drive their NSXs without ever having done these services. But, when they go, they go big. So, try and do these items within the first year or so for peace of mind.

I did the following within the first 18 months of getting my NSX. Remember, I had full service records and it STILL needed these:

1. All 23 hoses;
2. Fuel injector seals;
3. All 4 CV boots;
4. Clutch master and slave;
5. New A/C compressor and R134 conversion;
6. CCU repair;
7. Tail light gaskets.

Total bill was close to $5000, but the car runs great. I just had it on the NSXCA River Run and it is a blast. You can space these repairs out to mitigate the sticker shock and still enjoy the car.
 
Thank you Tim for your very detailed and thorugh write-up. I really do appreciate the time you've contributed to this thread. One thing, the dealer and "owner" have disclosed their knowledge of maintenance on the car. They have said that they don't have any records and that only the typical fluids/filters have been changed. So it's not that they're trying to hide anything, I don't think.


Shawn, thanks for your efforts. I had actually planned on trying to get in touch with the previous owner, if I were to go down there and check out the car.


Honcho, thanks a lot for your answers and advice. Nice to see you love the car so much and do work on it yourself too!




I called in to Dwight this morning and got to speak with him for a lengthy amount of time, as he was actually the one to do the inspection.
- The transmission "leak" is not really a leak. It's not dripping or puddling up on the floor. He was just able to see some fluid on the transmission case, and described it as "sweating".
- The A/C has been converted to R-134a and flushed (hence the dye in the system). He thinks at most it would need new lines and a new compressor.
- The slave cylinder he quoted at ~$200 for replacing.
- On the passenger side, he was not able to detect any signs of it having been damaged or worked on. No bondo work. He says if anything it might have been painted at the most, and he can't even determine that.
- He noted that there was a rattling noise in the cabin, when accelerating/decelerating. He thinks it might have been a lo-jack/alarm system that was not properly secured. He told the dealer rep and they said it would be fixed.
- He says the expansion tank was fine and that the hoses were in good condition.
- He didn't remember if the spare tire tie down was there or not, and he didn't check if the tools were in the trunk. He did say the trunk struts are good though.
- If I were to get some minor maintenance done on it before driving it, he quoted about $150 for an oil change, brake line flush, coolant flush, and transmission fluid change.
- Also, he guessed that the car had been garaged overall. He said the leather on the seats hadn't been conditioned in a while, but were in good condition.
- One big thing to note, Dwight brought some great insight into the Snap Ring issue. He said that in all his years at the Acura dealership (before he opened up HondaTech) he never had to replace any transmission cases when repairing the Snap Ring issue, except for one where the case had damage to it. He said all he did was replace the Snap Ring itself.


Talked with Danny, a Prime member, and he was able to give some good insight into some other things. He even offered to go check out the car if he was able to find some time this week. Thanks to Danny.
 
Bought mine...only needed a thermostat which I knew before purchase.
This is such a BUYER's market.........hold out........
You'll be surprised what shows up.
Barney has gone thru the '93 white one....get it for low 20's call it a day.

JMO
BAG
 
BAG said:
Bought mine...only needed a thermostat which I knew before purchase.
This is such a BUYER's market.........hold out........
You'll be surprised what shows up.
Barney has gone thru the '93 white one....get it for low 20's call it a day.

JMO
BAG
Click to expand...

agreed
 
Thanks BAG.
Didn't know you had found one already. Your thread on the white '93 was very helpful to me. According to LoveNSXs, it sold last week for $28,000.
Mind pm'ing me some details on the one you picked up?
 
JLCoolman said:
One big thing to note, Dwight brought some great insight into the Snap Ring issue. He said that in all his years at the Acura dealership (before he opened up HondaTech) he never had to replace any transmission cases when repairing the Snap Ring issue, except for one where the case had damage to it. He said all he did was replace the Snap Ring itself.
Click to expand...

:eek: Wow, this is a very scary thing to hear and only makes me more leery of taking my NSX to a dealer. The snap ring issue has nothing to do with the snap ring itself. The problem is in the transmission case, where the groove in which the snap ring sits was not cut properly. This allows the countershaft to move around too much, which flexes the snap ring and eventually breaks it. Replacing the snap ring will not fix the problem because the defective case will still be there and eventually the snap ring will break again.

The correct repair for this is to replace the upper transmission case (21200-PR8-000) with a new one that has a properly cut groove. However, as I understand it, Honda was so concerned about this that they directed dealers to replace the entire transmission instead. Thus, the official repair directive from Honda was to replace the entire trans. If this dealer was just swapping a new snap ring into a defective transmission, it is truly disturbing. :frown:
 
Honcho said:
:eek: Wow, this is a very scary thing to hear and only makes me more leery of taking my NSX to a dealer. The snap ring issue has nothing to do with the snap ring itself. The problem is in the transmission case, where the groove in which the snap ring sits was not cut properly. This allows the countershaft to move around too much, which flexes the snap ring and eventually breaks it. Replacing the snap ring will not fix the problem because the defective case will still be there and eventually the snap ring will break again.

The correct repair for this is to replace the upper transmission case (21200-PR8-000) with a new one that has a properly cut groove. However, as I understand it, Honda was so concerned about this that they directed dealers to replace the entire transmission instead. Thus, the official repair directive from Honda was to replace the entire trans. If this dealer was just swapping a new snap ring into a defective transmission, it is truly disturbing. :frown:
Click to expand...


Yep, that is what I gathered from the Transmission Wiki too.
So it was interesting to hear Dwight's take on it. Unless I completely misunderstood him when he was explaining it (there was so much I was trying to keep in my head).
 
Hey Jason,

No problem - one of the biggest decisions you'll make is buying a car like this and I enjoy passing on what little I know-anything of help I can think of.

It is sounding like this body work is almost or nearly just paint or maybe just paint. I would surely try and get that substatuated if you can - maybe get something in writing as to what you ppi guy said. Maybe it is in writing - I'd make sure it is very specific. Reason I'm kind of hammering on this one is that it could be the largest detremant to resale value. That's the only thing. No one really ever buys a car and keeps it for life - well a few do - not most. So that may or may not be a big consideration but if the Carfax shows it then you need to be able to be specific with a prospective buyer imho.

Otherwise if this is just paint due to some little swiping issue - then it may not matter at all. So Paul is most likely right in light of this latest info on the car - that $26k is not a bad price, but then if you have to give 28.5 and you really like it - hey - how many low miler white ones are there???? Not many - and that's for sure. It always seems like there are really good ones with low miles that have salvage titles - funny. I don't mean to say this one has a salvage title but it seems like out there in the world the salvaged ones always have low miles. Go figure.

It sounds like a good one. I've put 5k in mine and bought it for 28.5k - is that too much - well maybe it is but I'm happy to have mine. It did come with some extra goodies like a comptech header system - which these old ones really need. But if you want completely stock then this may be the best one available. It's a great color. I'd be damn tempted too had I found it. Good luck!
 
The previous owners last name is Romig that all I could find out for now still searching hold a bit
 
JLCoolman said:
This one that had higher miles and was in moderate condtion and had swapped multiple owners recently, but had TB/WP/clutch replaced and exhaust/HID that sold for $28,000 (according to LoveNSXs, as it was bought out from under him).
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137785
Click to expand...


Fun fact. The guy he was supposed to sell it to could not secure financing for the car (like he thought) and he called me to see if I still wanted it. Needless to say, I'm over his nonsense and have since moved on.

good luck, JL.
 
its funny he still bought the car. we all did it even against the advice of others. good luck with your new NSX
 
Has anyone bought their older NSX and not have to do any maintenance work afterwards (immediately/near future)?
I bought my '94 with 33K miles on it and up-to-date maintenance. The only maintenance thing (other than oil) I've done to my car was replaced all of the coolant hoses and fluids. Was somewhere around $750-800 for the entire job with parts. Other than that, I've put about 6500 miles on my car since I bought it.

(I have put "non-maintenance" money into the car and replaced some things that didn't have to be replaced but did so because I wanted to)

If the maintenance was taken care of prior to purchase, how did that factor in to the selling price?
I paid a bit more for the purchase price, but others with older, or higher mileage cars with deferred maintenance have in theirs close to what I have in mine. Either way (if I had bought cheaper but has deferred maintenance, or bought the one I did) I'd have around the same in mine. Plus, I'm sure there was a a couple hundred $$ for color premium.

However, there are still others out there that I know of that got smoking hot deals on their cars. There are deals to be found if the buyer is patient enough.
 
I did indeed buy the car. I am very pleased with it.
Thanks to everyone who helped out.

img0001g.jpg




Thanks for your answers, RJPKRP.
 
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