Price Advice '92 JH4NA1150NT001124

[JLCoolman]

Alright guys, I was waiting to get as much information about this car before I posted up asking for help. But basically what are your guys' thoughts on this car and a reasonable price for it. Right now, I'm trying to negotiate $29,000 after a successful inspection by Dwight at HondaTech/ForeignTech in Plantation, FL. And if it works out, I would fly down to Miami (I have a friend there), pick up the car and drive it back to GA.

Some notes, still don't know if the transmission is within Snap-Ring failure range. Don't know the condition of the tires.
Someone from Texas had made an offer of $28,500, but the previous owner is looking for $29,500.


Found it first on AutoTrader.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...rdist=485&standard=false&LNX=ESTAFSRCHUSDTEXT

The dealer's website. They are actually selling it for one of their customers that used to lease the vehicle from them.
http://www.jenkinsautosales.com/CarDetails.asp?c=JENKINSAUTOSALES&VIN=JH4NA1150NT001124

The CARFAX they included.
http://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory/p/Report.cfx?partner=CRD_1&vin=JH4NA1150NT001124

My email traffic with the dealer.
Jason,

Thanks for your interest in our 1992 Acura NSX, a very nice car that belonged to some very good customers of ours. We leased the car to the original customer for a few years than after the leased ended his son purchased the car off of the lease assumption. They were both older gentlemen with his soon being in his mid 50's today. They have always kept it very well maintained and in FL. I drove the car when it got in and it runs great. It was definitely owned by the right individuals that had a passion for the NSX brand. Any other questions you might have I would be glad to help you with. All my contact information is below and I would be glad to help you, Thanks Jason!

[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Thanks, [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Michael Jenkins[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Thank you for your quick response.[/FONT]
[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]How far back does your involvement with the car go?[/FONT]
[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Do you have any knowledge about the accident/incident the car was involved in that required a trip to a collision repair facility?[/FONT]
[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]First thoughts when I saw the car, was that it was perfect! But then I saw the vehicle history report and then I noticed the front bumper seems to be a little off color.[/FONT]
[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]I know you guys have the original window sticker as well as the complete set of books, is there documentation of the vehicle's maintenance history?[/FONT]

[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Thanks again,
Jason


Jason,

Our involvement with the car goes all the way back to when the father leased the car from us back in the early 1990's to helping his son purchase the car from the leasing company after the NSX came to term. As far as the carfax is concerned, I spoke to the son when he came in about the carfax and he explained everything. It was to the passenger door and quarter panel, an individual scraped the side with his car from the door down to the side of the quarter panel. Nothing whatsoever has been done to the front bumper or anywhere else on the car. If you want I can take a picture of the inside of the quarter panel and door, but the work is great.and the pictures will reflect that. He gave me everything he though he had with the car, I didn't get any service records though. Only thing I can say is that we went to his garage to pick up the car and it started right up and ran great. Any other information I get from him on service I will get right to you.


[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Thanks, [/FONT]
[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Michael Jenkins[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Thanks again, and I apologize with the number of questions I have.

[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Just to clarify a bit, were you guys the original purchaser/owner of the car? Based on the carfax, the car seems to have spent almost all of its life in Florida, where I'm assuming you and your two customers are involved with it starting in 1997.[/FONT]

[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Regarding the scraping incident, is there anything noticeable or visible left from that episode? The pictures you already have are great, so unless the inside of the quarter panel/door shows anything, I don't think a picture will be necessary.[/FONT]

[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Another thing, do you know if the transmission falls within the snap ring failure range?[/FONT]

[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Any other information you can provide about the car would be greatly appreciated.[/FONT]

[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Thanks,[/FONT]
[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Jason[/FONT]


[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Hi Mike,[/FONT]

[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Just wondering if there were any updates?[/FONT]

[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Thanks,[/FONT]
[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Jason[/FONT]


[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Hey Jason,[/FONT]

[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Sorry it took so long to get back to you, was out of the office last two days. I spoke to the previous owner about maintenance and this is what he told me. He replaced all the fluids and filters when service was due, but very limited on anything else on the car. On the Transmission questions to be honest with you I am not sure at all on snap ring failure range, I will have to see if my partner or the owner knows. I was just in the car and shot a video of it that I will be sending to you too. Thanks Jason! [/FONT]

[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif][FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Thanks, [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Michael Jenkins[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Hello Mike,[/FONT]

[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]No problem at all, I figured as much, was just hoping the car hadn't been snatched up over the weekend.[/FONT]
[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Great, the only thing of concern on maintenance issues is that it is a 20 year old car and so all the rubber hoses would probably need to be replaced eventually and the timing belt and water pump might need replacing even though the car has such low mileage.[/FONT]
[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Regarding the transmission, if you can just find out the transmission number, that would be great. If you need info on locating the transmission number, let me know.[/FONT]
[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]The video looked great, thanks. Can you possibly take some pictures of the engine/engine bay?[/FONT]

[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Some miscellaneous questions. How does the a/c blow? Also, how does the cd changer work, is it tied into the factory stereo system?[/FONT]


[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Thanks a lot Mike, I will probably be calling you here shortly.[/FONT]
[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]-Jason[/FONT]


[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Jason,[/FONT]

[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]That would be great if you could tell me where to look for the transmission number and I will send it right to you. And you are right about the timing belt, he never changed that, and I would probabaly figure the same for the hoses, water pump, etc. I am going to take some more pictures of the engine bay and I will check out the radio too and all that will be in the next e-mail. Just let me know where to find the transmission number. Thanks Jason! [/FONT]

[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif][FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Thanks, [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Michael Jenkins[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Here's how to find the transmission and engine numbers.

[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Uncover the engine and standing by the left rear fender bend over and put your nose right by the left rear corner of the air cleaner housing. Looking down and toward the center of the car (i.e. at approximately a 30 degree angle from horizontal), about one inch beyond a point directly below the fuel injection throttle body you should see a white bar-coded label. That's the transmission number label. While you're at it you might want to look about six inches further toward the center and four inches to the rear, where you will see the engine number stamped into the engine block, with the string "C30A1" on one line in larger letters, and "below" (i.e. closer to you) the remaining seven smaller digits of the engine number. It is best observed from just short of the support bracket for the engine cover prop (i.e. where you stick its end to hold up the engine cover).[/FONT]


[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Thanks again Mike.[/FONT]


[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]Jason,[/FONT]

[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif]I took some photos of the engine, I couldn't find the numbers, but my buddy is a mechanic and he works a minute away and I am going to tag team it with him, plus I am burning up down here in the sun, very hot here, which brings me to my next point, the AC works fantastic, I bet it works just as good today as it did back in 92. The radio is factory but the CD changer is aftermarket, it is Alpine. The pictures I took are all from the engine. I will get the numbers as soon as I get to my buddy. Thanks Jason![/FONT]


[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif][FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Thanks, [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Michael Jenkins[/FONT][/FONT]



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Here are the pictures he emailed me.

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[TitaniumVtec]

That is a diamond in the rough. What a low mileage find, in your favorite color. And you are not on the plane already because??

Like he said, the car has low miles but budget for some repairs. Belts and hoses, etc... Unless I missed something, this car looks nice!! Damn that paint is shiny as hell!!!

Good find and more importantly good luck!!!

James

 

[ChopsJazz]

Low miles, the seat bolsters look great. If the damage story checks out just buy it.

As Titanium says, just budget for belts, hoses, fluids, and an air freshener. Oh, and make sure the cassette deck works! :wink:

 

[ChopsJazz]

...

 

[ftuhy]

Looks good, engine compartment looks very clean. Unless you will do it yourself, budget about $3000-$3200 for hoses, timing belt, & WP done at a reputable dealer.

You might still want to get someone from Prime to take a look at it for you.

 

[JLCoolman]

Transmission number is J4A4-1005701.
Falls within Snap-Ring Failure range.
Does that change any of your guys' opinion?


Thanks for the input so far. I was really tempted to drive down there last weekend to check it out, but I'm trying to be patient and not just jump into things. I wanted to have done the right research and be properly prepared for making the next step.

Oh, he says the tires look great.
I really want to get something nailed down with the dealer/previous owner so that Dwight can do a PPI.

I'm getting really excited, but don't want to jinx myself or anything.

 

[rollinthunder4ever]

Snap-ring is going to cost you about $3000 to fix; but look at it this way, you have an excuse for the short gear upgrade, and that's a good thing!
Great color btw! good luck.

 

[JLCoolman]

Well, looks like the car should be mine as long as all goes well with the inspection.

$29,000 with a 4% sales tax so they can issue me a temporary tag for driving in Florida.

 

[ChopsJazz]

Use the transmission as a negotiation point.

 

[mickeylex]

Transmission number is J4A4-1005701.
Falls within Snap-Ring Failure range.
Does that change any of your guys' opinion?

Doesn't change my opinion one bit. If you were to ask others who are knowledgeable and experienced with NSXs, they would say go for it, if the car checks out on all other aspects. Good luck. A white 91-93 coupe in good shape is hard to find for sale these days.

 

[shawn110975]

wow what a great car, but dont take anything the salesmen sales to heart you need rock solid proof of these things, hes just tring to make a sale ya know. anyway check this link out it will help you alot on the buying of a Used NSX, i post it all the time

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/includes/htup_0810_acura_nsx_buyers_guide/index.html

and def use the Snap ring issue as a chip in your favor

the snap ring range is ( copy and paste )

The snap ring failure is limited to transmission numbers
J4A4-1003542 through J4A4-1005978. These transmission numbers are limited to 1991 and 1992 model year vehicles. You cannot determine whether a car is in the range for possible failure by VIN number, you MUST check the TRANSMISSION NUMBER

 

[jaybird]

With the low mileage it looks like a good deal. As others have said, it seems like the issue(s) is really the tranny snap ring issue and the t/b w/p. There are lots of threads about the necessity of the timing belt - you're not at the mileage but certainly way past the time.

I found my 91 in 12/09 with 52k miles and made the t/b part of the deal (ie; had the previous owner have that work done prior to my purchase). Had a 6 hour drive home and didn't want to take that chance. He understood and we worked it into the deal.

But, if your car was not in snap ring arena, and had the t/b work done, then I suspect with the low mileage you'd be looking at 34K or more. And that would be a good deal. Good luck, and keep us posted. Jay

 

[JLCoolman]

Thanks for the input guys.

The snap-ring was the one thing I was dreading to find out on this car. But I'm not letting it deter me.

Right now, we've agreed to $29,000 + 4% sales tax ($1160).
He added $34.99 for a temp tag fee.
So $30,194.99 total.

The dealer is taking the car to Dwight on Monday morning for an inspection.
If Dwight clears the car than I'll be pretty content with the price.
Although, I will probably still try and see if they can come down some on the price.

 

[FeetFxr]

I would wait for the PPI, then ask them to come down any according to adverse findings. I would hit them hard with the snap ring issue. My white '92 had the same miles 5 years ago when I bought it and the snap ring broke around 60K. Make sure the PPI tech mentions in the report that it is in snap ring range and quotes the cost of the repair. Also, bring up how body work and repaint affects your resale value. Even with all mentioned it is a very desirable color and the fastest NSX color :biggrin: so it will always sell a little higher. I bought mine in Miami too and drove her back to Orlando. Good luck!


If you get her, are you going to stay stock or mod? Mine looked a lot like the pics above 7 years ago...

<img src=http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/926/toddtalbertnsx004411fn9.jpg>

 

[JLCoolman]

Thanks for the advice.

I'm definitely going to call in to Dwight before the inspection and ask him to list something about the snap ring in the report, like you said.

I was tempted to email the dealer, and see if he could talk to the previous owner again, but I'm going to wait for the PPI and then try and get them to work with me on the price.
If you don't mind, would you pm me the price you got for yours?

As far as mods, I'm probably not going to have money right after I get her to do anything, at least until I sell one of my other cars. First thing I would want to do is get some wheels, I think. Probably wait till I need to change tires.

 

[BlackWindEXE]

Good luck with the purchase. Hope it all works out with maintenance. I saw this the day it popped up on autotrader and if I had the money I would've definitely checked it out since it's only a few hours away and white is my favorite color.

 

[arfnsx]

I hope everything works out for you and your purchase.

I wouldnt have negotiated the price without finding the faults of the car first. The dealer might now try to say he lowered it for you with all of the faults in consideration.

On the other note, I hope you DO get this NSX. White is gorgeous but very hard to find in good condition. We need a white one here in Georgia.

BTW What part of GA are you in?

 

[mknmoves]

Side Note: It's sometimes unreal to see the value of an NSX, I bought my first one 12 years ago that looked exactly like this, white/black 1 owner with low miles for 26k.

Here we are over a decade later and they still hold their value.

I love these cars!! :biggrin:

 

[JLCoolman]

I hope everything works out for you and your purchase.

I wouldnt have negotiated the price without finding the faults of the car first. The dealer might now try to say he lowered it for you with all of the faults in consideration.

On the other note, I hope you DO get this NSX. White is gorgeous but very hard to find in good condition. We need a white one here in Georgia.

BTW What part of GA are you in?

Hey Alex,

Yeah, I didn't want to agree on anything, but the price was being determined by the previous owner (as the dealer is selling the car for him from what I gathered) and they weren't willing have a PPI done till we had come to some sort of agreement. But I'm definitely going to work on the price after the inspection is completed this morning.

Thanks, I'm very excited at the notion of owning this NSX.

I live in Warner Robins, but I do come up to Atlanta a lot depending on the time of year (specifically Duluth). Would love to meet up with you guys in Atlanta if/when I get the NSX.

-jason

Side Note: It's sometimes unreal to see the value of an NSX, I bought my first one 12 years ago that looked exactly like this, white/black 1 owner with low miles for 26k.

Here we are over a decade later and they still hold their value.

I love these cars!! :biggrin:

Wow, you got such a great deal!

 

[tbromley]

Hey Jason,

Thought I'd weigh in here just a bit. I too went for the early cars - as you may know it was last year about this time that I bought mine - a 91 Silver and you can find out a little about mine in my "personal profile". I thought mine to be a good one. It had no body damage, however the rear bumper and front valence have been painted due to rock chips and I do remember now that the prev. owner had backed into a bush off the rear of his garrage and hence the repaint to the bumper.

Otherwise the timing belt/water pump had been replaced once - remember the car is 20 years old. So it should have had this done not once but twice - right. Now I don't mean to throw cold water on your excitement but you need to regroup just a bit. I paid 28.5k for mine. The guy wasn't asking too high a price originally if you only consider the mileage. By the way mine was NOT in the snap ring range. Only some of 91 and 92 were in that range. Even still it is not absolute even if your in the range that this will happen to you - the snap ring that is.

Ok, back to considering a few things - things that in my opinion set off a flair - you say the dealer wanted and owner he is apparently representing as if to say this car is kind of on consignment - right - wanted to agree on some price YET they are unwilling to share any real detail about the maintenance? Ok, that's a bad sign - this is not the way to inspire confidence in this sale. It also has had body damage and repainting to the door and rear quarter panel - I assume that means bondo??? Not a full replacement of the parts. That's not great - that means it may not be the best quality repair but then it may have been very minor - makes you wonder. So my car had 42k miles on it - not a lot more than this one. So I'd say mine was in better shape in a way - no real damage to any of the aluminum parts - no repaint of that - many real collectors will not buy a car that has had damage - I don't think it's a show stopper but it sure is a detraction from the sales price just on that alone - damage and basically you have to assume the owner has done nothing to really maintain the car - other than fluids and oil - no timing belt, water pump, hoses and by the way all that was done by me after I bought mine as well. I had a clutch, master and slave installed along with a steering rack (don't know why it needed a steering rack but it had Eibach lowering springs that were hard as cement and the shocks were blown because of it) I think that did it to the rack personally. Anyway - you can figure on at least 4k in maintenance you will most likely have to do. If they won't divulge the maintenance history other than fluid and filter changes you have to assume that there have been NO replacement of these items.

So let's recap: TB/WP/Hoses/fluids/valve adjustment/AC???/ shocks - most likely they are SHOT too - 20 years is a long time for a shock to keep gas in them. How bout the clutch? Just because it has low miles doesn't mean that the clutch is perfectly fine - mine has had 3 clutches. I put in the 3rd one - ok. Some people don't know how to drive em - just don't get it! Now that's an additional 2400. Check the expansion tank - it could need replacement - they get little cracks - mine was replaced. So with nothing else - like the snap ring issue rearing it's ugly head you could be looking at 3k for sure and 5k maybe. Depending on what the PPI turns up and it's had body work and it may have a 3000 buck snap ring issue.

So tread carefully and if they won't really meet with you on this stuff - despite the color which is rare and very desireable I'd have to rethink that 29k price a bit. With that snap ring repair that no one can guarantee it doesn't need - you have a car that was devalued because of the damage, the lack of major maintenance that is absolutely required, and a price of 29k - I think there is some room for negotiation here!!!!

All I'm saying is go in with the attitude that if these guys play hard ball with you and are unwilling to divulge the real maintenance history as well as reducing the price for the aforementioned issues then you may not be able to come to terms. Now if you jus have to have it cause the color is great and your willing to discount the issue of body damage cause the repair is really GOOD! - then just realize you could have as much in this car eventually as 37k. If that sits well with you then fine, just don't be fooled into thinking that none of this needs to be taken care of. The potential maintenance issues + the snap ring thing could be 8k- eventually. Not all at once - as the snap ring thing may or maynot ever hit. If it doesn't then all the better - but they can't and won't guarantee that.

Good luck - the color white is so highly desirable - it is very pretty too. I hope it all works out. It'll be nice. All the best!

 

[JLCoolman]

Thanks for your concerns Tim.

All those things have gone through my head already.

And just to clear it up, they actually have told me that the timing belt/water pump/hoses have not been replaced. And all that was done was regular fluids/filter maintenance. (it was in the email traffic)

And I'm not sure as to the extent of the body damage that had occured, as it had been described as "being scraped by another car". Hopefully, Dwight will be able to elaborate on that more after his inspection.


The inspection has been done and I'm waiting for a call from Dwight, although I might call him here shortly.

Either way, I'm definitely going to discuss things in further detail with the dealer and try and work things out on the price.

Thanks Tim,
Jason

 

[tbromley]

Yep, I thought I had read that about the TB/WP/hoses, etc. I hope the PPI comes thru great. Hope he can check out the body filler or whatever - kind of hard with the body being aluminum - right.

I sure do like the looks of the car - white is my favorite I think. I'd love to have a white on white in the later model 3.2 - I had a chance at one but I couldn't afford the 50k or even 48k, which I think it sold for. Good luck Jason - let us know what you find out on the PPI!!!

Thanks for your concerns Tim.

All those things have gone through my head already.

And just to clear it up, they actually have told me that the timing belt/water pump/hoses have not been replaced. And all that was done was regular fluids/filter maintenance. (it was in the email traffic)

And I'm not sure as to the extent of the body damage that had occured, as it had been described as "being scraped by another car". Hopefully, Dwight will be able to elaborate on that more after his inspection.


The inspection has been done and I'm waiting for a call from Dwight, although I might call him here shortly.

Either way, I'm definitely going to discuss things in further detail with the dealer and try and work things out on the price.

Thanks Tim,
Jason

 

[JLCoolman]

Just got off the phone with Donovan from HondaTech.

Main things they saw:
- minor A/C leak, they noticed some A/C dye on the lines
- possible minor leak in the Slave Cylinder
- small leak from the transmission, they think it may be the input shaft

- in general, needs some servicing, brake fluid and oil change
- and the tires were getting close to needing to be changed (3/32 all around)


- he said the body is clean and everything works fine on the car



Called the dealer and talked with him for a bit about the findings from the inspection. He clarified that the price is being set by the previous owner. I asked him to call the owner back and bring up the fact that there is so much deferred maintenance, including $2000 worth of TB/WP/hoses replacement and another possible $3000 for the Transmission in case of Snap Ring failure, plus tires; and see if he can work with me on the price.

That's it for now.

 

[Tony Montoya]

I'd keep looking.

 

[tbromley]

I'd get something in writing from the ppi guy about how much the AC, slave cylinder and leak in the tranny will cost. I think you are a little light on the TB/WP/Hoses replacement. Ask the ppi guy fhe cost of a general service plus the adding in the additional repair items. So you have a total package for the repairs and service. Give that to the owner and mention the snap ring thing. I don't know if you'll get everything included but you should cause they are not discounting the car appropriately for the body work.

You need to make sure you don't just walk into a big bill. I did - and I'm sure my car is not worth what I have in it - they never really are. But just how much do you want to take on to buy this car? These arer the questions you have to soul search about on this deal. Do not let this dealer get your goat! He will surely try!

Good luck Jason,

Tim

Just got off the phone with Donovan from HondaTech.

Main things they saw:
- minor A/C leak, they noticed some A/C dye on the lines
- possible minor leak in the Slave Cylinder
- small leak from the transmission, they think it may be the input shaft

- in general, needs some servicing, brake fluid and oil change
- and the tires were getting close to needing to be changed (3/32 all around)


- he said the body is clean and everything works fine on the car



Called the dealer and talked with him for a bit about the findings from the inspection. He clarified that the price is being set by the previous owner. I asked him to call the owner back and bring up the fact that there is so much deferred maintenance, including $2000 worth of TB/WP/hoses replacement and another possible $3000 for the Transmission in case of Snap Ring failure, plus tires; and see if he can work with me on the price.

That's it for now.