Porsche owner interested in an NSX - some questions.

[xxaarraa]

Hello everyone,

I have been on the stickies, read the excellent buyer's bible/guide - thanks to everyone who contributed to that, great resource.

I have always been intrigued by the NSX ever since I saw Tiff Needle's original review of it back in the early 90s (might have been late 80s, not sure). I am and have been a German car fan for a very long time now - several AMGs, Ms and now a 911. But the NSX still intrigues me and I want to see if I can get one for the next car, just to check it off the list. I have been on the classified section of this forum - don't see a whole lot of activity there, especially in the Want to Buy area. Figured I'd post something here first and go from there.

Should I just post in the WTB? Or forget all about the NSX and just go get a 997?

 

[condumbwerkz]

I would recommend asking someone local for a test ride in their NSX before making any kind of decision

 

[Osiris_x11]

Nice 996.2 911 C4S! And yes, place a WTB NSX thread. So, I got both, each is a different experience...

The 996.2 911 (non turbo/GT models) feels like the ultimate German GT-meets-sportscar, great torque, solid feel, feature rich, overly complex to maintain/service due to decades of platform optimization/enhancement for refinement & modernization. I believe it to be the best all-around daily driver.

The NSX feels like a true exotic in-comparison, light/lithe & sublime in terms of handling, very simple & analog/mechanical in feel, visceral & involved driving experience with incomparable driving position. I believe it to be the most usable of its contemporaries (mid-engine/rwd Ferraris, Vipers, ESPRITs, etc).

Going from the NSX to the 911, I welcome the comfort, refinement, torque, and utility.

Going from the 911 to the NSX, I welcome the motoring experience, sensory feedback, view/position, and handling.

 

[blue_myriddn]

Scratch the itch - otherwise you will be left with "what if" questions.

I agree with the test drive though, if you can't find an owner hit a user car dealership and take one out for a spin. I did that when I started my searching - I just hopped in the closest used NSX available and took it for a drive to see if the ride appealed to me. After that I was able to focus on specific years, colors, etc.

 

[dablackgoku1234]

I figure I am looking at a 95/96 or thereabouts NSX

I agree with test driving one first before committing yourself. You are trading 325hp for 270hp. FWIW, you chosen the slowest NSX out of all the possibilities. 3.0L engine, 5 speed transmission, ODB2 (no simple ECU tune), and a targa top (extra weight). Changes between the years can be found here: http://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Changes_by_Year

 

[xxaarraa]

I would recommend asking someone local for a test ride in their NSX before making any kind of decision

I agree with test driving one first before committing yourself. You are trading 325hp for 270hp. FWIW, you chosen the slowest NSX out of all the possibilities. 3.0L engine, 5 speed transmission, ODB2 (no simple ECU tune), and a targa top (extra weight). Changes between the years can be found here: http://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Changes_by_Year

Thanks for your thoughts guys. Couple things:

After a few AMGs, nearly anything south of super car territory is going to feel dog slow to me. In fact, it took me several years of hesitation before I "downgraded" to a 911 in terms of speed and torque. So stepping down to 270 hp isn't a problem at all.

I get tired of cars very quickly (even the ones I love), so I am not buying an NSX or 997 or whatever's next for the rest of my life. I am buying it just for the experience of owning and driving something very special.

So no test drives needed

Interesting tip about going to a dealership. I'd much prefer that, much cleaner and save on sales tax too. But I thought you couldn't find any NSXs at dealerships. I have only ever seen a single one in real life and figured the limited numbers that were sold are all in private hands now. But I'll make a few calls and see if anything turns up.

 

[blue_myriddn]

Interesting tip about going to a dealership. I'd much prefer that, much cleaner and save on sales tax too. But I thought you couldn't find any NSXs at dealerships. I have only ever seen a single one in real life and figured the limited numbers that were sold are all in private hands now. But I'll make a few calls and see if anything turns up.

Dealers often pick them up. With the winter weather there is unlikely to be any in your area (there is at least one available around me), but when spring arises it wouldn't surprise me to see one at a nearby dealership to you. The early model cars (1991-1996) are fairly numerous and easy to track down. The basic NSX "feel" will be there regardless of the year. The only big game changer IMO is a supercharger. That turns the VTEC "kick" from a surge to a wallop from a mule.

Given that you are experienced with exotic cars, you will know that price will fluctuate with #owners and maintenance history.

 

[shawn110975]

my question is what took you so long to want one vs the Sheep cars that are everywhere you don't see NSX's like you see Porsche or BMW or Lexus or Merc , Vettes, sheep cars.

find one drive it love it.

 

[SaleenS7Rs]

That is a nice Porsche. If you can keep that bad boy and get an NSX that would be sweet. Atleast that is what I would try to do. Then you can figure out which one to keep and which one to sell.

 

[xxaarraa]

my question is what took you so long to want one vs the Sheep cars that are everywhere you don't see NSX's like you see Porsche or BMW or Lexus or Merc , Vettes, sheep cars.

find one drive it love it.

haha, good question. I was always intrigued by them but never really bit because they seem slower than a modern Accord V6. The NSX interior even in the later model years looked very dated, and to an outsider, the car was let down by Honda's perpetual achilles heel - no V8.

But once I made the switch to the 911, I learned to live with some of the dated-ness, and the quirkiness and charm of it grew on me. I feel like the NSX would be a similar experience - definitely not a fast car by any definition, but a special car to own and experience.

- - - Updated - - -

That is a nice Porsche. If you can keep that bad boy and get an NSX that would be sweet. Atleast that is what I would try to do. Then you can figure out which one to keep and which one to sell.

hahaha, you have the right idea I'd love to, but between all the motorcycles I race and my truck that I 4wheel, I can only afford one nice car. Besides, I've had the 996 for 13 months and 15k miles, I'm long overdue for the next thing It's going to come down to a 997 C4S, a C63 (like going back home) or if I can find the right one, an NSX.

- - - Updated - - -

Nice 996.2 911 C4S! And yes, place a WTB NSX thread. So, I got both, each is a different experience...

The 996.2 911 (non turbo/GT models) feels like the ultimate German GT-meets-sportscar, great torque, solid feel, feature rich, overly complex to maintain/service due to decades of platform optimization/enhancement for refinement & modernization. I believe it to be the best all-around daily driver.

The NSX feels like a true exotic in-comparison, light/lithe & sublime in terms of handling, very simple & analog/mechanical in feel, visceral & involved driving experience with incomparable driving position. I believe it to be the most usable of its contemporaries (mid-engine/rwd Ferraris, Vipers, ESPRITs, etc).

Going from the NSX to the 911, I welcome the comfort, refinement, torque, and utility.

Going from the 911 to the NSX, I welcome the motoring experience, sensory feedback, view/position, and handling.

Very good eye! Do you have a P-car as well? You seem to know them quite well.

 

[solidol]

This is funny because I'm really curious to drive 997 conv. Love NSX but miss open top experience. I would agree with everybody else - you just have to test drive it. For the experience of owning you can't go wrong with NSX. If you plan on selling quick later on - get lower mileage stock or with light suspension mods. The thing is if you look at it you can always go back to M, C63 or 997 etc; But to find clean NSX is not easy. There is one in FS section - BB 92 I think. In TX. May want to look at that one. Seems very nice to me if mechanics check out well.

 

[Stephen@NCAutoUSA]

You're best bet is to go out and test drive one of different years/options that are important to you.

If you drive a stock one coming from those cars listed you'll probably be impressed by the driving position and feel, but you'll miss the power if that matters to you.

If the power matters to you I'd suggest driving one with a supercharger or turbo. There are options to make a stock car quicker, but it can add up quickly.

 

[Stook2003]

You will love the NSX, IMO power is really not the issue with the NSX, car is nicely balanced the way it is even with 205/225 tires. The over all package and the driving experience is quite different from the P cars, the NSX will be easier to drive fast in the corners than rear engine 911s. so go ahead and find yourself a 91-94 hardtop low mile example and smile everyday

 

[JD Cross]

Not sure this will sway you as you sound like a committed Porsche fan but it's worth a read.
http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/own...-gt3-warned-not-to-drive-car-after-fires.html

 

[Aaron94T]

Not sure this will sway you as you sound like a committed Porsche fan but it's worth a read.
http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/own...-gt3-warned-not-to-drive-car-after-fires.html

Let me just start by saying say I am not a Porsche fan. With that said, I am not sure how a defect on a super limited production $130k 2014 model should sway his purchasing of a used previous generation 997? So your saying all previous 911's are to be looked at differently now because the first year of the new GT3 has a defect that Porsche is acknowledging and addressing?

 

[xxaarraa]

Haha, no I'm not worried about the 991 gt3s having issues. It will be many years before I'm able to afford a 991 gt series car so I'm sure they will sort out all the bugs by then.

I just watched the old top gear nsx review again and the bug is getting stronger! Its such a Honda. Build a great car (titanium con rods, wow for the 80s), fit it with ugly ass wheels with puny tires (trademark Honda move), spartan interior, underwhelming power and sell it to everyone doggedly for 15 years. Lol. I love it even more now for all its inexplicable quirks.

 

[91 X]

Haha, no I'm not worried about the 991 gt3s having issues. It will be many years before I'm able to afford a 991 gt series car so I'm sure they will sort out all the bugs by then.

I just watched the old top gear nsx review again and the bug is getting stronger! Its such a Honda. Build a great car (titanium con rods, wow for the 80s), fit it with ugly ass wheels with puny tires (trademark Honda move), spartan interior, underwhelming power and sell it to everyone doggedly for 15 years. Lol. I love it even more now for all its inexplicable quirks.

Actually there are very few if any quirks with these cars...and the interior of a 91 looks and feels light years ahead of some of the latest Porsches but I digress...
I'd say for someone like you who changes cars a lot , then the greatest selling point for you might be the fact that you won't lose much to no money if you decide to sell...I am on my third one in 11 years and sold my previous two for more then I paid for them ....every time!!! Yes, I put money into them(rims, exhaust, maintenance ) but pretty much got it all back after enjoying the car for 2-3 years.....might not work for all years/ models, but for the early 91-93s it is a pretty safe bet..the key is finding a stock to slightly modded with no title issues for a good price....

besides them being so damn rare, fun to drive and so dang good looking just sittin in the garage...they are great cars...

Good luck but be patient and willing to hop on a plane with a one way ticket 1000's of miles away from home....(like I did with my first one)

 

[Shrink]

So your story is mine a few years ago. I previously owned a 928S, Boxster and 911 Cabriolet. While I loved each car, they were a pain in the ass to keep running. When you purchase a used Porsche, you are going to spend significant time and money keeping them running. Then I purchased by 91 NSX with 220,000 miles when I bought it. I would never , ever, never purchase a Porsche with more than 60,000 miles on it. This car has been a dream. Never fails me. Whatever I had to do was reasonably priced. I enjoy it more and more and the ride/performance while different, is every bit as fun as my previous Porsche cars. I also flip cars yearly to every other year. So far, I am more in love with this car versus less since it's one year anniversary. Dump the Porsche and get an NSX!

 

[solidol]

When you purchase a used Porsche, you are going to spend significant time and money keeping them running. Then I purchased by 91 NSX with 220,000 miles when I bought it. I would never , ever, never purchase a Porsche with more than 60,000 miles on it.

Can you be more specific? We all know Honda's reliability. But Porsches in general are also known to be very reliable. Some more than others. So what exactly went wrong with 911 you had? And what year/engine did you have? Very curious.

 

[myw]

But Porsches in general are also known to be very reliable. Some more than others. So what exactly went wrong with 911 you had? And what year/engine did you have? Very curious.

IMHO based on what i read on the forums Porsche reliability is questionable.

i've seen 911 engine problems (catastrophic), pdk failures, bore scoring (leading to engine failure) on 6spd/rennlist; the frequency a new major problem occurs is about 1/1.5 months (pdk/engine) in north america (i started to bookmarking the links as i couldn't stop ignoring the failures). this number ive collected doesn't include cayman, boxter, cayenne or 996-911 engine replacements but the manufacturing/engineering process are similar to 997-911 (again on the forums) nor does it include the numbers on the uk/pistonheads forums (where there are threads/polls to track the number of failures).

while some people may think i am reciting internet scare/alarmist stuff... during my ownership time, i know 4 ppl personally MY05, 06, 06, 07 911's hat have had engine replacements (avg milage of failure being 45k miles) none due to infamous ims-lawsuit issue but all due to bore scoring (2 fixed under warranty, 2 rebuilds out of pocket). now one owner tracked his car HARD, and one i have zero history of, but the other 2 cars were babied and maintained to dealer spec.

out of fairness the 09+ the dfi engines are completely different in design and no longer have the older engine failure issues (from what ive read) , however in the past 9-10 months there are some pdk failures on the 09+ -> 2014 cars that seem to be happening out of nowhere and is causing anxiety (pdk replacement is 14 grand) for some owners.

if you get a p-car, my opinion is get a lowest mileage one as possible; with full service history (ideally dealer). compression/leakdown test during ppi + aftermarket warranty (assuming its not already cpo with warranty).

i've been on the nsx forums for years and ppl here enjoy their cars for the most part worry free (look at the number of high milage, no warranty nsx here that keep running till the end of time), but the number of 'bulletproof'/'reliability' threads on the 911 side of the forums is hard to believe (until you spend a year on the 911 forums and see with your own eyes whats happening in real-time). solidol, i suggest you check out the p-car forums and hang out there to make your own opinion. i find it hilarious (sadly) that it's an incredible 'accomplishment' if a p-car hits 100k miles/160k km on the car's original engine. maybe ive been spoiled by seeing so many nsx's (and my parents previous $h!tbox chevys) approach 200k miles over the years.

now i do want to conclude saying that i LOVE MY 911. its beautiful, and drives brilliantly (15k miles with warranty) and i think its nice and sophisticated as it has all the nutty Porsche options (full leather etc etc)... knock on wood as my ownership experience is unscathed (thus far). but love for the car and brand (for any car) doesn't mean blindly guzzling the koolaid (some 911 friends after engine failures still argue that their car is 'bullet proof' and that the failure rates are 1%.... i dont know how my friends make up this number since only porsche knows the truth and it's in their best interest to not say anything).

one other thing is that i have also driven 1/2 dozen nsx's during my dream car search (91s->04s), the nsx does have a more exotic driving/position experience but the p-car feels more modern, has interior from a different era, and is in a different world when it comes to power (another 70-100 hp depending on which 911 year/trim)

don't take nsx reliability for granted!

 

[solidol]

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I think my feeling (because that's all that is) comes from my younger brother talking about how reliable 3.0/3.2 air cooled engines are. Not sure about 996/997 but I see lots of cars with close to 100k on the clock. Granted no clue how many engines have been replaced I'm really curious to drive 997 convertible and turbos. Just to see how different they are to an NSX.

 

[myw]

the aircooled cars were very reliable, and i do think the turbo/gt series engines (of all years) are very reliable as well.

the biggest problem/frustration re the unreliability from later 90s->2000s p-cars were the cost cutting measures on the non-turbo engines (ie. they stopped nikisil plating in the cylinders for all the NA engines while they continued to do so on the turbo/gt series engines).

HOWEVER, if a turbo engine blows are you're out of warranty, you're pretty much out a 2002+ nsx (cost wise)

compared to an nsx any 997 will feel more back heavy, and you lose that wraparound windshield nsx exotic driving position. the 911 however does feel way more modern (i think this matters more to the younger guys), is more upscale depending upon your the cars interior package, and has more power. you will notice these differences immediately.

i dunno how to exactly explain it but the 911 feels more 'manly' (dunno if this is a crude way to explain).

also, having driven my friends 997 turbo, the turbo acceleration will make you $h!t your pants; its CRAZY fast (i think it has about 200hp more then the original nsx), im actually scared to push it.

one of my neighbors has a 2013 boxter convertible (handles better then my car imo) while another neighbor has a 997 cabriolet, they are both very nice for nice days and evenings. no complaints re the enjoyment factor when top is down (can't comment when the roof is up).. note that convertable components are seldom covered under warranty.

hope this helps.

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I think my feeling (because that's all that is) comes from my younger brother talking about how reliable 3.0/3.2 air cooled engines are. Not sure about 996/997 but I see lots of cars with close to 100k on the clock. Granted no clue how many engines have been replaced I'm really curious to drive 997 convertible and turbos. Just to see how different they are to an NSX.

 

[NSXonwheels]

Thanks for the Porsche feedback myw, rare to see owners not drinking their own cars Kool-aid. I've always loved Porsches, and a 1994-1997 911 is still on my list of cars to own one day.

 

[myw]

i've had one guy (nice guy i may add) that when trying to sell me his car that had its engine blown, was saying how 'bulletproof 'the car is (while still hunting for a replacement engine).... BAHAHAHAHAHAHA. it was a terrible situation for that owner.

if either lexus or my previous acuras had these extreme issues; i would just be honest about the quality and likely woudlnt be a return customer.

the koolaid stuff drives me crazy. too much denial (especially when considering some ppl dump their life savings into their cars. ie. not all p-car owners are super wealthy)

ps. 993 are classic! some of them command crazy resale.

Thanks for the Porsche feedback myw, rare to see owners not drinking their own cars Kool-aid. I've always loved Porsches, and a 1994-1997 911 is still on my list of cars to own one day.

 

[NSXonwheels]

I appreciate and respect your honest feedback. Owners forget that they can still love their car and everything about it while still admitting that it might be an unreliable POS or just plainly needs more maintenance than most.