poll
- Thread starter satx
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I vote for HSC but remember that the HSC cannot support 500Hp. It is based on a modified NSX chassis. The chassis can reliably support around 400Hp. A V8 may or may not fit in the HSC, but definitely not a V10. HSC chassis is setup for Transverse mount engine. A v10 requires Longitudal mount, which means a brand new chassis.
While a V10 FR ASCC may run close to the $90K because its platform can be shared with other models to reduce cost, a V10 mid-engine car does not have this luxury and will be over $100K.
Based on how it was marketed at the 03 Tokyo show, the HSC with the 3.5L V6 was likely a $60K car. It would have produced around 350Hp. I'm sure Honda can tweak this to 400Hp. Bring it on!
While a V10 FR ASCC may run close to the $90K because its platform can be shared with other models to reduce cost, a V10 mid-engine car does not have this luxury and will be over $100K.
Based on how it was marketed at the 03 Tokyo show, the HSC with the 3.5L V6 was likely a $60K car. It would have produced around 350Hp. I'm sure Honda can tweak this to 400Hp. Bring it on!
They can always make a new chassis with a mid engine!
(who would buy either model new ??) :smile:
Very interesting stuff,:smile: Why couldn’t Honda stretch the chassis, or modify the car so except a V-10 longitudal. And while their at it, how about HUD w/ night vision, electric brakes: lighter, and faster stopping times. Honda are you listen or reading are threads on this subject.
PS. I vote for the HSC.
you sound like you have detailed info about the chassis in the HSC. What componets of the "chassis" cannot handle 500HP?
please post the dimentions of the HSC engine bay and of a compact V8 or V10
since when was the direction the engine is mounted in determined by number of cylinders? The Lambo Miura had a 12cyl transversely mounted.
Dude, what is your point?
If you ask us to sign a petition letter with enough signatures - 4 years ago, so you can send to Honda, yeah, of course, but do you think this thread is going to change Honda’s mind?
This is the FACT!!
ASC will be built, and will possibly have 500 plus hp from a large V10, and
HSC prototype had “over” 300 HP from a 3.5 liter V6, but it will never be built!
Stop crying/dreaming about what Honda is not going to do. If you don't like ASC, buy some thing else when you're ready to leave the NSX.
Or
Just high boost CTSC your NSX and have some one make a HSC body kit for you.
If you ask us to sign a petition letter with enough signatures - 4 years ago, so you can send to Honda, yeah, of course, but do you think this thread is going to change Honda’s mind?
This is the FACT!!
ASC will be built, and will possibly have 500 plus hp from a large V10, and
HSC prototype had “over” 300 HP from a 3.5 liter V6, but it will never be built!
Stop crying/dreaming about what Honda is not going to do. If you don't like ASC, buy some thing else when you're ready to leave the NSX.
Or
Just high boost CTSC your NSX and have some one make a HSC body kit for you.
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For once, I agree with vancehu. Though I'll put it in more mild terms.
It seems Honda's exec mngmt is set full tilt on moving upmarket and this front engined V10 NSX successor. I'm not quite sure if it'll be the 500hp V10 everyone expects but I certainly expect it to perform as well as it's competition.
I'm looking forward to seeing the ASCC finished and produced. With a rear-wheel biased SH-AWD and, hopefully, a host of other performance features found on it's competition, the car should be quite a peformer.
If it's not, there are always other marques to place business with or upgrades to your current NSX. Personally, I wasn't very keen on the HSC. I neither liked the front or rear end of the car - especially the mixed and mismatched lights of the rear. OTOH, I like the aesthetics of the ASCC and look forward to it's more finished look at the Tokyo Auto Show later this year.
It seems Honda's exec mngmt is set full tilt on moving upmarket and this front engined V10 NSX successor. I'm not quite sure if it'll be the 500hp V10 everyone expects but I certainly expect it to perform as well as it's competition.
I'm looking forward to seeing the ASCC finished and produced. With a rear-wheel biased SH-AWD and, hopefully, a host of other performance features found on it's competition, the car should be quite a peformer.
If it's not, there are always other marques to place business with or upgrades to your current NSX. Personally, I wasn't very keen on the HSC. I neither liked the front or rear end of the car - especially the mixed and mismatched lights of the rear. OTOH, I like the aesthetics of the ASCC and look forward to it's more finished look at the Tokyo Auto Show later this year.
Should they just shut this portion of the forum down? I thought we here to discuss the second gen NSX?
The point is that automakers produce concept vehicle to gauge interest. Apparently Honda did not produce the HSC due to negative reception (or lower than expected enthusiasm).....will they now produce the ASCC with an even more negative reception?
No, just matter of wondering why you will put "500 hp" HSC when there is in fact, not a 500HP HSC even in the prototype Form.
If what most people said is true about Honda have not turned any profit with the NSX, there is no reason to believe that Honda intended to make money with the ASC.
In most cases, Honda is probably out to prove that they can make a FR super car just the Brits since the MR has been done. Let's wait and see the finish product before making the final judgement.
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Thank you Vancehu. People here are getting on my nerves being such baby's about this. If they don't like it fine they should move on! I wanted an HSC to ,but I understand it's not gonna happen. I can't wait for the ASC Honda should be given a chance! Dang buncha whiney babys
Thank you Vancehu. People here are getting on my nerves being such baby's about this. If they don't like it fine they should move on! I wanted an HSC to ,but I understand it's not gonna happen. I can't wait for the ASC Honda should be given a chance! Dang buncha whiney babys
Well, sometimes whiney babies need to be ignored to let them tire out to conclusion. This is much less taxing on the nerves :wink:
We all should know that Honda won't dissappoint in the technology and enjoyment to drive departments; whether FR or MR layout. They've done both very well (S2000/NSX).
I will be looking forward to feed-back from any future owners either on this site or who knows; a dedicated ASC (or HSC :biggrin: :tongue: ) forum, where
we can continue the comparisons, what ifs, speculation and other various discussions in the interest of enthusiast's public expression :smile:
After all, there most likely will be the V10 and SH AWD! No doubt a great value overall for the sports car enthusiast when stacked against it's target competition. Sometimes change is good
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- 569
Two points:
1. I think most of us welcome Honda bringing out another FR sports car. There is some concern here with the ASCC styling and its potential weight. If Honda can address these and keep the cost down, then Honda may have a chance. You can count on this platform to be shared with the Acura flagship replacing the RL (Legend). This flagship will likely be running a V8.
2. An overwhelming majority of NSX owners are disappointed because they have tasted the purity of the NSX formula and after all the years of waiting, they are more than ready to taste the next generation with all the modern technical updates. Modifying it for performance improvements is not the same as a complete makeover from mother Honda.
Some of us may reason that no new NSX is ok because they have a classic NSX on their hands and they will dearly hang on to it forever. But deep inside, these owners would fully embrace a new NSX if it was a true update of the original would be built. Some of us welcome a change such as a FR layout. But most NSX owners are sold on the formula of mid-engine, lightweight, and exotic good looks from a company that builds one of the most reliable products.
Hence we speak out loud and clear to Honda. Not all of us whine. Some of us make educated, detailed, and constructive comments to Honda so they would listen and respond in kind.
1. I think most of us welcome Honda bringing out another FR sports car. There is some concern here with the ASCC styling and its potential weight. If Honda can address these and keep the cost down, then Honda may have a chance. You can count on this platform to be shared with the Acura flagship replacing the RL (Legend). This flagship will likely be running a V8.
2. An overwhelming majority of NSX owners are disappointed because they have tasted the purity of the NSX formula and after all the years of waiting, they are more than ready to taste the next generation with all the modern technical updates. Modifying it for performance improvements is not the same as a complete makeover from mother Honda.
Some of us may reason that no new NSX is ok because they have a classic NSX on their hands and they will dearly hang on to it forever. But deep inside, these owners would fully embrace a new NSX if it was a true update of the original would be built. Some of us welcome a change such as a FR layout. But most NSX owners are sold on the formula of mid-engine, lightweight, and exotic good looks from a company that builds one of the most reliable products.
Hence we speak out loud and clear to Honda. Not all of us whine. Some of us make educated, detailed, and constructive comments to Honda so they would listen and respond in kind.
It doesn't even have full specs yet and most people here are trashing it w/o even knowing the cost or what it's performance will be like.
That "some" it basically a very quiet minority. Polls on NSXprime do nothing and the bashing the loud majority has given it is unfair because they don't even know 1. price 2. performance. Honda has always made exceptional cars for a price well below it's competition. I stand by the fact that if Dodge can handmake the Viper for $85-90K then Honda can mass produce the ASC for less!
None of us, including you - Know the final styling and weight - AKA - Finish Product, at this point; therefore, chill out a little till you see some actual test on the production or test cars. Do you think Honda will give the next generation Legend/RL an Aluminum Chassis with Flat CF Undercover, etc. at half the price?
The chassis technology on the NSX requires no improvement even compare to today’s entry level super car; unless you go into the level of Hyper Supercar (Enzo, Carrera GT, Zonda), there should be absolutely no reason to replace the NSX you have. Some of us like to sell the earlier model for a newer model, and will consider that as sufficient upgrade. I can understand the out datedness of the interior design but who cares? Most pure car ethusiats buy cars base on performance, not gadgetry.
As I have mentioned before, CTSC will put the NSX right back to the entry-level Supercar. If the NSX is as perfect as every one making out to be, there should be no aftermarket product for it.
A large percentage of the NSX owners TODAY are/will cry about what Honda is not doing for them with the ASC, but most of them PROBABLY can’t afford a new NSX, HSC or ASC. Honda probably understand that; perhaps that is why they are targeting a different crowd.
Not all of us whine, but some do. Constructive comments only work if they were requested by the manufacture.
If you want to be educated about the ASC, just wait. I’m sure when Honda is ready, they will want to tell you all about it. Even if Honda doesn’t want to educate you about the ASC, “Cars and Drivers, Automobile, Road and Track, EVO, Cars” magazines will.
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- Joined
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What's up Vancehu? Did I struck a nerve? You are obviously very passionate about this.
Actually, just thinking logically and willing to give Honda a chance to prove the worthiness of the ASC. You should too. Wait till the finish product before making any judgements is probably a proper way to approach it.
Booyaa!
Nobody here has mentioned Honda contacting them personally or Prime as a whole to find out if we do or don't like their prospective offering. Until they do enough of this crap! Just wait till you get some actual numbers before you start saying what the car is or isn't
- Joined
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- 569
All man, this is gonna make me write a book :smile:
Most people on the forum are bashing the styling and the move to FR layout. I suspect Honda will clean up the design if this thing goes into production. But what were they thinking showing off a concept dervied from the Pontiac Firebird. That's almost as bad as showing a new NSX engine and saying it has "at least 300hp". And we know what happend to that last Honda goof up.
Despite the fact we do not have concrete data, all of us can only speculate based on the information that is available and then comparing it to competitor vehicles to establish a baseline. This is human nature, more power to you if you can withhold judgement. Based on this, I will bash at the expected weight of this ASCC car. Here's the data behind this speculation:
The ASCC has very similar dimensions to the Ferrari 599. The Ferrari curb weight is 3722. The Ferrari has 2 more cylinders but the Honda has SH-AWD. Standard issue SH-AWD is 200 lbs extra. I do not expect the Honda to have carbon fiber to keep price in check, hence I deduct this vehicle to be at least 3700 lbs. But don't be surprised if it winds up at 3900 lbs. That is a pig, much in line with what the M6 weights. Speculation or not, the preliminary data is discourgaging for folks who prefer lightweights.
All other things being equal, a heavier car just takes the fun factor out from the driving experience. It may go fast in a straight line, but in the corners we'll see how well the SH-AWD offsets the ASCC fat.
Regarding the NSX chassis not needing an update. Here's a quote from 2slow2speed.
"As far as looks goes the NSX still looks better, but from a straight out of the box handling it's a no contest the Cayman S even with street tires would run circles against a NA1 or a NA2 NSX running stock suspension and stock tires.
You can make a NA1/NA2 NSX handle as good as a Cayman S, but you will end up sacrificing quite a bit in regards to ride quality in order to achieve that. NSX-R Suspension, stiffer sway bars, non-compliance front toe clamps, NSX-R chassis bars, non-compliance beam and rear toe links and you will probably have to run R-compounds too , and then you will have a car that won't be too much fun driving around roads that aren't smooth."
You can read the handling comparsions of the nsx versus Cayman here:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77584&highlight=Cayman
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82375
In addition, in a post you started with information on the upcoming NSX, the article with the interview with Uehera said: "HSC chassis was a heavily modified NSX Chassis"
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59527&highlight=something+I+read
Based on this, it is pretty clear to me that the NSX chassis needed to be modified to improve handling or updated to new safety standards. Its probably both. Look at the salom numbers and lateral acceleration between the Cayman and NSX. Cayman and Boxster will run circles around NSX in pure handling terms.
Take your pick, if you like Horsepower above all, the ASCC may be for you in the Acura lineup. If you prioritize handling over ultimate power, the HSC is it. Now, if only Honda can build both, then we can all be happy
Most people on the forum are bashing the styling and the move to FR layout. I suspect Honda will clean up the design if this thing goes into production. But what were they thinking showing off a concept dervied from the Pontiac Firebird. That's almost as bad as showing a new NSX engine and saying it has "at least 300hp". And we know what happend to that last Honda goof up.
Despite the fact we do not have concrete data, all of us can only speculate based on the information that is available and then comparing it to competitor vehicles to establish a baseline. This is human nature, more power to you if you can withhold judgement. Based on this, I will bash at the expected weight of this ASCC car. Here's the data behind this speculation:
The ASCC has very similar dimensions to the Ferrari 599. The Ferrari curb weight is 3722. The Ferrari has 2 more cylinders but the Honda has SH-AWD. Standard issue SH-AWD is 200 lbs extra. I do not expect the Honda to have carbon fiber to keep price in check, hence I deduct this vehicle to be at least 3700 lbs. But don't be surprised if it winds up at 3900 lbs. That is a pig, much in line with what the M6 weights. Speculation or not, the preliminary data is discourgaging for folks who prefer lightweights.
All other things being equal, a heavier car just takes the fun factor out from the driving experience. It may go fast in a straight line, but in the corners we'll see how well the SH-AWD offsets the ASCC fat.
Regarding the NSX chassis not needing an update. Here's a quote from 2slow2speed.
"As far as looks goes the NSX still looks better, but from a straight out of the box handling it's a no contest the Cayman S even with street tires would run circles against a NA1 or a NA2 NSX running stock suspension and stock tires.
You can make a NA1/NA2 NSX handle as good as a Cayman S, but you will end up sacrificing quite a bit in regards to ride quality in order to achieve that. NSX-R Suspension, stiffer sway bars, non-compliance front toe clamps, NSX-R chassis bars, non-compliance beam and rear toe links and you will probably have to run R-compounds too , and then you will have a car that won't be too much fun driving around roads that aren't smooth."
You can read the handling comparsions of the nsx versus Cayman here:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77584&highlight=Cayman
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82375
In addition, in a post you started with information on the upcoming NSX, the article with the interview with Uehera said: "HSC chassis was a heavily modified NSX Chassis"
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59527&highlight=something+I+read
Based on this, it is pretty clear to me that the NSX chassis needed to be modified to improve handling or updated to new safety standards. Its probably both. Look at the salom numbers and lateral acceleration between the Cayman and NSX. Cayman and Boxster will run circles around NSX in pure handling terms.
Take your pick, if you like Horsepower above all, the ASCC may be for you in the Acura lineup. If you prioritize handling over ultimate power, the HSC is it. Now, if only Honda can build both, then we can all be happy
Booyaa!
Nobody here has mentioned Honda contacting them personally or Prime as a whole to find out if we do or don't like their prospective offering. Until they do enough of this crap! Just wait till you get some actual numbers before you start saying what the car is or isn't
Blah. Give me my HSC!
:wink: :biggrin: :smile:
Blah. Give me my HSC!
I still want one to ,but unfortunately that's not gonna happen:frown: So ASC it is ,but to me that's not a bad thing it will compliment the S2K and NSX nicely.
For guys who still want a mid engine the Cayman S is the least expensive. They can go that route. I can't afford Porsche so I'll stick with Honda:biggrin:
Just my .02
US spec NSX have the most street friendly version of all oem NSX suspension set up. The NSX-S, NSX-S Zero, NSX-R was available in Japan, these are factory cars. The oem S and R suspension parts are available.
We have seen what NSX-R can do against much more powerful cars. Just imagine what it can do even with as little as 50~100 more hp. The chassis is more than plenty.
You based that off Ken (2slow2speed)'s comment. He is very knowledgeable however, even Ken will probably get a kick out of comment above.
You can't just look at the Slalom numbers and latteral acceleration#s. They are very misleading. I can name several cars that have better slalom and latteral acceleration# than NSX. Doesn't really mean much, NSX will run circles around the cars I can name. Take F40's #s then compare it to Cayman S.
-A slalom is a series of back-and-forth lane changes that test a car s ability to make smooth cornering transitions
-The most important test of handling takes place on the roads these cars were designed for, with changing speeds
Best motoring did a test using regular NSX-S vs Cayman S, Boxster S. This time they did not put Drift King or Gansan behind the seat. The NSX-S lost by .26sec in the 5 lap race. It did started from grid 5, took sometime to overcome slower cars blocking its way.
NSX-S did had the fastest single lap time of 1'6" flat vs Cayman S's 1' 6"59
Bravo!!
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You know of course that now you must that video of the NSX-S vs Cayman S and Boxter S:biggrin:
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Did you read the entire 2 threads I posted with NSX owners comparing their cars handling versus Cayman? The majority stated the Cayman rocks over the NSX, not just Ken. All magazines post incredible handling numbers of the Cayman. This is very consistent. Stop denying it. 3/05 issue of R&T had the Boxster S posted the best slalom of all time for production vehicles (at time of posting), yes, that means besting the Ferrari 360 and the Enzo. Track times have too much variables if you are trying to measure ultimate handling. In 3/05 of R&T, the Corvette can beat the Lotus Elise and Boxster S in one track, does that mean it is a better handling car?? The variables are driver, gearing, and power. We are talking about handling so stick with absolutes we can measure such as Lateral acceleration and slalom. Granted one of the handling variables are track conditions, hence I show you multiple data points so you can gauge how much variance is there. The numbers are pretty convincing. All data below came from Road and Track.
NSX
Targa 7/98 - lateral 0.92, slalom 62.1mph
Zanardi (type S) 6/99 - Lateral 0.93, slalom 64.6mph
2002 3/02 - Lateral 0.91, slalom 65.8mph
NSX average - Lateral 0.92, slalom 64.2
Cayman S
Cayman S 8/06 - Lateral 0.98, slalom 74.2 mph
Cayman S 11/05 - Lateral 0.96, slalom 71.7 mph
Cayman S 9/06 - Lateral 0.96, slalom 70.6 mph
Cayman average - 0.967, slalom 72.2 mph
I agree the current NSX chassis can take more power, but from a pure handling standpoint, the NSX has some catching up to do. The numbers and NSX drivers speak for themselves.
I understand some of us put sweat and money in their cars to improve its handling to Type-S or Type-R standards. Are you efforts and dollars clouding your judgement or biasing it so you can self justify your dollars and time was well spent? Yes, your Type R suspension will be as good as Cayman S handling, but how punishing will the ride be compared to the Cayman S?
In addition, you may be able to modify your NSX to keep up with the handling and power, but it is still far short of a brand new replacement NSX from the factory with upgrades like a defeatable VSA with varing degrees of threshold, side & curtain head airbag, and structural improvements for crash protection. Did you see the recent post of how many NSX owners crash their car due to oversteer? VSA will minimze that. I know some of us are great drivers, but we are not free from mistakes nor can we control the mistake of other drivers around us. All the improvements a manufacturer updates goes a long way. Ever seen a video of what happens to a drivers head if his car was broad sided by a pick up or SUV? The head goes thru the window and strikes the other vehicles hood inflicting serious head injury or death. This is pretty sureal and with the exception of the S2000, all US Honda products now have Head curtain airbags.
All this bring us back to the focus of the thread. We all love our NSX and we love tinkering with it to improve the car. But what many of us want is an updated NSX with improvements in safety, innovation, and technology. We want this in the same mid-engine, lightweight exotic theme much like the original NSX. Yes, we have options like the R8 and the Cayman S, but the styling doesn't evoke the passion some of us have for the NSX. In addition, the reliablility is no where near where Honda is. To that, we are back to the HSC. Bring it on Honda.
NSX
Targa 7/98 - lateral 0.92, slalom 62.1mph
Zanardi (type S) 6/99 - Lateral 0.93, slalom 64.6mph
2002 3/02 - Lateral 0.91, slalom 65.8mph
NSX average - Lateral 0.92, slalom 64.2
Cayman S
Cayman S 8/06 - Lateral 0.98, slalom 74.2 mph
Cayman S 11/05 - Lateral 0.96, slalom 71.7 mph
Cayman S 9/06 - Lateral 0.96, slalom 70.6 mph
Cayman average - 0.967, slalom 72.2 mph
I agree the current NSX chassis can take more power, but from a pure handling standpoint, the NSX has some catching up to do. The numbers and NSX drivers speak for themselves.
I understand some of us put sweat and money in their cars to improve its handling to Type-S or Type-R standards. Are you efforts and dollars clouding your judgement or biasing it so you can self justify your dollars and time was well spent? Yes, your Type R suspension will be as good as Cayman S handling, but how punishing will the ride be compared to the Cayman S?
In addition, you may be able to modify your NSX to keep up with the handling and power, but it is still far short of a brand new replacement NSX from the factory with upgrades like a defeatable VSA with varing degrees of threshold, side & curtain head airbag, and structural improvements for crash protection. Did you see the recent post of how many NSX owners crash their car due to oversteer? VSA will minimze that. I know some of us are great drivers, but we are not free from mistakes nor can we control the mistake of other drivers around us. All the improvements a manufacturer updates goes a long way. Ever seen a video of what happens to a drivers head if his car was broad sided by a pick up or SUV? The head goes thru the window and strikes the other vehicles hood inflicting serious head injury or death. This is pretty sureal and with the exception of the S2000, all US Honda products now have Head curtain airbags.
All this bring us back to the focus of the thread. We all love our NSX and we love tinkering with it to improve the car. But what many of us want is an updated NSX with improvements in safety, innovation, and technology. We want this in the same mid-engine, lightweight exotic theme much like the original NSX. Yes, we have options like the R8 and the Cayman S, but the styling doesn't evoke the passion some of us have for the NSX. In addition, the reliablility is no where near where Honda is. To that, we are back to the HSC. Bring it on Honda.
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