Political threads in Off Topic

[NSX Prime]

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1126836&postcount=14

I have re-opened Off Topic to political discussion. The old rules of "tread lightly" and finding a way to disagree without being disagreeable remain in effect and will be enforced. Political debate is not the purpose of this site.

Since re-opening political discussion in Off Topic a little over a month ago, I have been disappointed in the quality and tone of the posts from both sides of the issues.

I'm increasingly inclined to just ban political discussion permanently because, as noted above, political discussion is not the point of this site and I think the net effect to the site from what we have now is negative.

I am open to suggestions though.

 

[Dhalsim]

It doesnt matter to me either way. I go to Rennlist for all my Off Topic Political discussions...........:biggrin: Things get incredibly ugly over there..........

 

[heySkippy]

I am open to suggestions though.

The only practical alternative to banning them is active and heavy moderation. If you choose to keep allowing political threads, I would recommend they have their own sub-forum and be actively moderated.

 

[docjohn]

The only positives I see are ,,1) allows hot heads to exercise thier intrinsic hand muscles on each other rather then spread thier vitriol on other topics.2)For those of us with the selfcontrol to read and not post there is some learning to be had. The negatives are pretty obvious.The one I don't like is the atraction to prime of the "drive by gawkers" who sometimes decide to grace us with usless drivel elsewhere on the site.The other nasty untword reaction of these volitile threads is the angst generated by self proclaimed experts in the field which can spill over to other parts of the site with members smeering or sniping each other.:frown: Tough one though Lud, in the end your call.

 

[cptnsx]

Given that Obama was called a POS (and someone either stated or suggested that if Obama got out of bounds someone would or should shoot him) ..... I vote that you close all political threads.

As a veteran (and someone who still works for the government - I regular go to Washington for threat assessment briefing) that type of language is uncalled for and will open up this forum (and members) to possible investigations.

 

[Ski_Banker]

Lud, it seems to me that banning political threads may not have the desired intended consequences. For Off Topic, *so many* topics have a political angle to them. Economics (my favs, obviously), finances, real estate, gun ownership, healthcare, taxes -- all will result in some amount of "Democrats/Republicans are doing ___" which can quickly take a thread downhill.

Perhaps having 1 or 2 threads where dedicated political discussion is to take place would -at the least- unclutter the site. ie, "The official Obama discussion thread" or, more generally, "The official political discussion thread".

$.02

 

[queenlives]

I'm increasingly inclined to just ban political discussion permanently because, as noted above, political discussion is not the point of this site and I think the net effect to the site from what we have now is negative.

+1 (italics are mine)

 

[Ko-nsx]

I personally don't mind any of the "off topic" topics. Seeing multiple "senseless" threads started every hour is annoying, but we only have so much to dicuss about our beloved nsx's.

I only started one political thread, and i try to only post my feelings in a respectful way. I have been jumped on many times but have no ill feelings towards members doing the jumping:biggrin:. im sure we all know i have been involved in debates with other members, but i always try to be respectful and open when posting on nsxprime. The politcal threads are good and bad but what isn't? I remember when yellowrose/thesaint used to stir up quite a bit but, it was entertaining. We can only talk about turbo's, big brake kits and nsx-r spoilers for so long.:smile:

Since you did started the thread Lud, i sincerely apologize for any direspectful disruptions caused by me. My post are never to belittle my fellow members.

 

[zahntech]

If Lud feels it's not OK to express ones true opinions about our leaders then of course I will respect that decision.

Threatening to kill people esp Government officials is Illegal and unacceptable...I Did not see the post that threatened Obama but If I had I would have rebuked that poster (and hope others would too)immediately.

JZ

 

[kelsodeez]

i dunno, i kinda like watching the hot heads explode from far away. i am pretty neutral about politics as i just hate them in general. but some people get crazy about them and are completely disrespectful to any other view than their own. so i say ban them (unless its automotive related i.e. obama wants to ban the use of petroleum etc.).

 

[ANYTIME]

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1126836&postcount=14



Since re-opening political discussion in Off Topic a little over a month ago, I have been disappointed in the quality and tone of the posts from both sides of the issues.

I'm increasingly inclined to just ban political discussion permanently because, as noted above, political discussion is not the point of this site and I think the net effect to the site from what we have now is negative.

I am open to suggestions though.

Heated political and NSFW threads lately seem to have changed Prime. Even the tone is different. The main focus of this site is..........the NSX, correct?
Your playground and a tough decision.

 

[ChopsJazz]

Heated political and NSFW threads lately seem to have changed Prime. Even the tone is different. The main focus of this site is..........the NSX, correct?
Your playground and a tough decision.

I agree. In the last couple years have seen a proliferation of NSFW threads and a general decline in the level of discourse. Coincidence? Difficult to know, but I would like to return to the small community feel that we once enjoyed here.

 

[myguitar]

Political threads **could** bring something positive to a forum community, but that has not been the case with Prime because it is blatantly obvious that our political threads contain no balanced, civil discussions - everyone seems to be either far-right or far-left, with only few and far between who consider themselves to be in the middle (like myself :biggrin.

With a demographic like this, political discussions get heated and quite pointless pretty quickly. No one seems to be willing to nudge a bit toward the other side and have a balanced discussion. Also, quite unfortunately, when you read those far-right or far-left comments, it may also make you think differently of that poster, which is not the goal in a community like this. I've been guilty of ridiculous posts myself. :redface:

I am a member on s2ki, h-t, team-integra, club-wrx, lambo-power, hai... but I spend most of my "forum time" here on Prime, and mostly to talk cars or read jokes, or see photos from meets and things, and I also come here because this is a very smart, mature and also down-to-earth community. But once politics come around.... it's monkeys and feces!

This is not my site and my vote won't count, but if it did I'd suggest that the off-topic section should primarily serve for discussions about other cars we like, about things we do, advice on things we need help with, jokes, pictures of things we see and such. There are literally a million other forums out there dedicated to EVERY other thing you wanna see or discuss and not everything needs to be brought here.

On the matter of NSFW girl threads....

I think it's a great idea to have a thread where we can post pics of ourselves or our wifes/girlfriends/families. There are members who are on here all the time and for the most part, the regulars know each other pretty well so it's nice to put a face to the (screen)name. But I don't think it's appropriate that a thread like that should be turned into a NSFW thread. I don't care to see any wife's/girlfriend's tits and I believe posting those photos is a pretty crappy thing to do. Post a nice pic of your girl, not a pic of her in a skank costume next to your car. We just wanna "meet" her... That's just me though, I would never objectify someone I love. If someone wants tits and ass, it's only a click away.

My .02. Please don't ban me :biggrin: j/k

 

[Ponyboy]

That's just me though...

No, it's not just you. I agree wholeheartedly with basically everything you've stated.

 

[Mr Payne]

Sub-forum, lightly moderated.

 

[NSX Prime]

In over a week nobody has made a compelling argument for keeping political discussion, or even really expressed a strong desire to keep it.

At the same time, a couple current threads have further convinced me that too many people don't care to respect the "tread lightly" rule.

I am not going to create a separate "gloves off" forum for it, and I'm not going to spend the time and effort to closely police such debates.

Therefore, unless someone convinces me otherwise by this weekend, I am simply going to ban political discussion.

 

[docjohn]

Fascist!!!!:biggrin:

 

[Ski_Banker]

I think that is rather unfortunate, Lud, since *most* people are fairly thoughtful and open minded in their posts. There's an awful lot to talk about, regarding politics & the economy, but obviously -- your (NSX) forum.

 

[Mr Payne]

At the same time, a couple current threads have further convinced me that too many people don't care to respect the "tread lightly" rule.

That will never happen.

I do know I enjoy political discussion. I used to spend a tremendous amount of time at Ferrari chat for the business discussion and political discussion subforums. They made them subscription only and I rarely go there anymore.

 

[NSX Prime]

I think that is rather unfortunate

I agree, it is a real disappointment.

The alternative is to just tell certain people they are no longer allowed to participate in political discussion. Then if they still do, am I supposed to just ban them from the whole site? NSX owners getting banned for something that has nothing to do with the purpose of the site sounds absurd.

Or I could set up some sort of user group permissions system and yank their ability to post in Off Topic. I don't know how to do that offhand, but I think it is possible.

But then I am just accused of bias any time I moderate someone who is all worked up over some political thread. I can only imagine the persecution complexes and cries of bias and censorship if I start doing something like that. Really it's all just very draining, and I keep asking myself: why do all that for something that is not even central to the purpose of the site.

 

[NSX Prime]

That will never happen.

It happened for years. Political discussion has always been allowed, and while it was never perfect I never found it to be a real disruption until the lead-up to the last US presidential election. I thought people might cool off with a temporary suspension of such discussion after the election. Unfortunately now that it's been allowed again it's gone right back to where it was, which I do not find acceptable.

 

[Ko-nsx]

I agree, it is a real disappointment.

The alternative is to just tell certain people they are no longer allowed to participate in political discussion. Then if they still do, am I supposed to just ban them from the whole site? NSX owners getting banned for something that has nothing to do with the purpose of the site sounds absurd.

Or I could set up some sort of user group permissions system and yank their ability to post in Off Topic. I don't know how to do that offhand, but I think it is possible.

But then I am just accused of bias any time I moderate someone who is all worked up over some political thread. I can only imagine the persecution complexes and cries of bias and censorship if I start doing something like that. Really it's all just very draining, and I keep asking myself: why do all that for something that is not even central to the purpose of the site.

I think the idea of moderation of some members and their comments, is a good way to go. I agree banning anybody for something non-nsx related is difficult. Possibly another moderator or 2 just for off-topic or a sub-forum for money and politics? Although the recent political threads have soured some, some of us are interested in others views. I wouldn't worry about the cries of bias and censorship, accusations, or comments about you and your playground. You might want to stay on top of the homepage though.:biggrin:

Possible subforum under moderation, i think is a fair solution. You have many prime members that are adult enough to remain nuetral and unbiased in forum or thread moderation.

 

[Tom239]

I'm increasingly inclined to just ban political discussion permanently because, as noted above, political discussion is not the point of this site and I think the net effect to the site from what we have now is negative.

Will that include banning political comments in sigs, avatars, Location:, and the like?

There are days I am in the mood for reading political discussion and days when I'm not. If I don't feel like it, I avoid the off-topic section altogether-- but the political comments in signatures rub your nose in it whether you want it or not.

 

[myguitar]

Lud,

You can just add a sticky with a list of links to different political discussion sites. You're not gonna lose traffic by banning or redirecting political threads because I don't think anyone comes here for that stuff specifically.

There is way too much politics around us right now, we hear the extremely one-sided opinions all over the TV as it is, so I personally don't want to run into it at one of the few places left where I can come and enjoy my visit. If it was civil yes, but it is clearly not. Good thing we rarely, or lightly bring up religion!! :smile:

Thank You!

 

[queenlives]

I agree, it is a real disappointment.

The alternative is to just tell certain people they are no longer allowed to participate in political discussion. Then if they still do, am I supposed to just ban them from the whole site? NSX owners getting banned for something that has nothing to do with the purpose of the site sounds absurd.

Or I could set up some sort of user group permissions system and yank their ability to post in Off Topic. I don't know how to do that offhand, but I think it is possible.

But then I am just accused of bias any time I moderate someone who is all worked up over some political thread. I can only imagine the persecution complexes and cries of bias and censorship if I start doing something like that. Really it's all just very draining, and I keep asking myself: why do all that for something that is not even central to the purpose of the site.

seems to me that civil discussions about a broad variety of topics are one of the high-water qualities of prime over the years... and it seems a shame to kill an entire topic as important to everyone - u.s. citizen or r.o.w. - as politics and the global economy is @ this particular point in time.

rather than penalize the entire community for bad behavior, i suggest issuing a warning to the individual (you may also want to post a note in the thread indicating you'd like a bit more civility) and suspend / terminate if it continues. (for others reading my input, it should be noted that a couple of years ago i was asked by lud to stop my posting / bad behavior on a thread and i responded appropriately - i had gotten too wrapped around the axle for my own good.

a final point: there are a number of members who strongly - but civilly - express their opinions on the economy, politics, etc, that are very different than mine. i must say that i value the discussions that we have in public as well as those via pm/ email / phone and in person; my belief is they feel the same way.

i vote for censuring the poorly behaving member rather than restricting such an important discussion topic.

(as always) good luck with whatever you decide and thanks for continuing to maintain prime.
hal
btw, i also like myguitar's suggestion of sticky/links to political-vomit sites.