Observations on JH4NA2167VT000020

Originally posted by Lud:
#19 may be 100% to factory specs, but there is just no way to do that repair and leave asbolutely no trace. Nobody, not even the manufacturer's tech center, can cut and re-weld the body and run the car through a paint booth with no trace of difference from the original. You may have to remove panels (interior trim or exterior) if they were extremely perfectionist about it, but the evidence is there somewhere.
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I'm passing along what I heard directly from two NSX techs who I know are highly qualified and who have found evidence in other cases that were not obvious to the casual observer. They DID remove panels and examine it thoroughly.

I assume you have not seen this car, and are presenting a theoretical opinion, not based on actual observation of this specific vehicle.

You are welcome to your opinion. The two techs who do this for a living disagree with it.
 
Originally posted by nsxtasy:
No it isn't. I am very familiar with that car. VT000019 was not hit on the side. It was hit in the front or rear - I forget which, but that end was replaced, the other end was fine.
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Ken...I am just joking with you when I say this...I just laughed when you said you were "very familiar" with VT000019 but you forgot which end was in the terrible collision. I guess the familiarity may be fading, my friend. LOL!
smile.gif
 
Originally posted by nsxtasy:
I assume you have not seen this car, and are presenting a theoretical opinion, not based on actual observation of this specific vehicle.
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Actually, I have seen 1997 #19 in person. I was just trying to word my response politely.

You are welcome to your opinion. The two techs who do this for a living disagree with it.
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If someone is a tech, mechanical work is the vast majority of what they do for a living, not looking for subtle signs of repair work. Many, if not most, techs have very little body repair or paint knowledge/experience at all.

Obviously I don't know the guys who looked at this car, but in general while most mechanics may be better at spotting body work than the average person, it's my experience that most sharp car dealers (the owner or GM, not the sales guy on the floor) are better than most mechanics at spotting it, and experienced body shop guys are the best, because they DO work with it for a living.

It's just specialization like anything else. One doctor may be a top anesthesiologist, but you don't want him interpreting complicated x-rays, you want a top radiologist. If the anesthesia guy looks at an x-ray there is a very good chance he will not find the same things as the radiologist even though they are both good doctors looking at the same radiograph.
 
It has also been my experience that most "techs" and mechanics can spot only the most obvious of all body work. I have cars go through PPI's all the time, at factory dealerships, that I know have had prior paint work or body work, but it is never noted in the inspections. I've actually never been told that a car has had paintwork from any mechanic. They are not trained to spot body work like a body shop owner or dealership owner would and their livelihood is not affected by their ability or inability to do so.

I have also never come across a car that has had extensive body work done to it that didn't leave any traces. If you know what to look for, you can find it easily. It is not necessary to remove panels, carpet, etc. like many here believe. I don't know what constitutes an "experienced NSX owner", but I doubt most owners can spot most body work and wouldn't trust the opinion of them unless they have experience in the industry.

[This message has been edited by ck (edited 15 January 2003).]
 
American Honda employs "top experts" in bodyshop repair? Sorry Ken, I couldn't resist. Your point is well taken, though. I too have seen (and even ridden in) the infamous #19 and the repair work was seemingly invisible... at least to this "Top BS expert"
smile.gif
Note: Seeing the underside side by side with another NSX might yield another story, however.
 
So i take it harrier has gone underground for a while with his car? I'm no rocket scientist, but do you all think that he was actually the one trying to sell it six months ago as well and was just trying to let things cool off before trying again?
 
Originally posted by dnyhof:
do you all think that he was actually the one trying to sell it six months ago as well and was just trying to let things cool off before trying again?
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I think it's just as possible that he is a legitimate car dealer in Georgia who bought a car at an auction, hoped that it was rare and worth a lot more for that reason, then found out that he had been duped. Which is not to say that his hasty retreat with his tail between his legs put him in a good light.
 
Originally posted by dnyhof:
So i take it harrier has gone underground for a while with his car? I'm no rocket scientist, but do you all think that he was actually the one trying to sell it six months ago as well and was just trying to let things cool off before trying again?
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Not unless he moved across the country. The car was in CA before, now it is in GA. And Shawn/Harrier is a licensed used car dealer in Georgia. Again, I feel random speculation is counter productive.
 
Just to clarify, since this dormant thread has been resurrected - there are two different blue NSXs under discussion in this topic. One, with VIN VT000020, was put up for sale by "harrier" in an auction without specifying numerous faults in its condition, which were pointed out in the thread. The other, with VIN VT000019, does not have these faults, but at one time was in a major crash, and a new half was replaced by adding it to the previous half some years ago, with the work done by the technical experts at Acura HQ in Torrance, California. These are two different cars.
 
ChopsJazz said:
Just on a tangent, how does this topic have 51 views and 62 replies? (now probably 63)
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My guess is that, when topics were converted over from the previous software in April, the replies are converted, but not the view counts. In fact, I don't think views were counted in the old software at all. So there can be more replies converted over, than there are people who have viewed it since the conversion.
 
kinnsella said:
I already did....He knows nothing about the car except its really clean and very rare..so rare because its not real.
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...knows nothing about the car..but knows it is one of a kind....struck me as funny. :)
 
You guys are nothing short of AMAZING. Keep up the good work. As a soon-to-be NSX owner, your input is invaluable to us all. :)
 
This is just sad. I remember this particular car loud and clear at NSXPO1999. I think it was the second day of the event that we went to some "Fort" to have dinner. After I parked, I noticed this beautiful 1997 Blue coupe parked next to me. What really surprised me was the top also blue. I was under the impression that the top of a coupe was black as depicted on the 1997 NSX brochure. Back then I was not interested in the coupe but was just lusting after John Foster's gorgeous white 1997 T. The owner of the blue coupe was a very nice gentleman. We chatted for a while about the car and I learned that he ordered the coupe but did not specifically ordered a blue top but it came that way anyway. Too bad.
Steve
 
whiteNSXs said:
This is just sad. I remember this particular car loud and clear at NSXPO1999. I think it was the second day of the event that we went to some "Fort" to have dinner. After I parked, I noticed this beautiful 1997 Blue coupe parked next to me. What really surprised me was the top also blue. I was under the impression that the top of a coupe was black as depicted on the 1997 NSX brochure. Back then I was not interested in the coupe but was just lusting after John Foster's gorgeous white 1997 T. The owner of the blue coupe was a very nice gentleman. We chatted for a while about the car and I learned that he ordered the coupe but did not specifically ordered a blue top but it came that way anyway. Too bad.
Steve
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Steve,

I don't understand. Neither car came from the factory as a coupe.

If you're talking about VT000019, that car is an NSX-T, not a coupe.

If you're talking about VT000020, that car came from the factory as an NSX-T, not a coupe. It was apparently in an accident and reconstructed (poorly) as a coupe.

:confused:
 
whiteNSXs said:
This is just sad. I remember this particular car loud and clear at NSXPO1999. I think it was the second day of the event that we went to some "Fort" to have dinner. After I parked, I noticed this beautiful 1997 Blue coupe parked next to me.
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That is Rick W.'s car and it is different than the two discussed in this thread. His car (as far as I know) has never been in a major accident and has always been a coupe since it was built at the factory.

The two blue cars discussed above in this thread have both had major reconstructive surgery. Both started life as NSX-Ts; one still is, though the whole rear end was replaced, and the other appears to have had a coupe roof welded on as part of it's repair work.

Hopefully that clears up any confusion..?
 
nsxtasy said:
Steve,

I don't understand. Neither car came from the factory as a coupe.

If you're talking about VT000019, that car is an NSX-T, not a coupe.

If you're talking about VT000020, that car came from the factory as an NSX-T, not a coupe. It was apparently in an accident and reconstructed (poorly) as a coupe.

:confused:
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I stand corrected then. I know there is only ONE 1997 blue coupe, the COUPE. I did not realize the #20 was a T.
Good! THE COUPE is still good and healthy.
Well, at least I got one car right. John Foster's former white T is still gorgeous and in a good home.;)
Steve
 
I CANNOT BEGIN to express how thankful I am of NSX PRIME!

I placed a REFUNDABLE $500 deposit on this car today!

If it wasnt for the greatest member on here: PHOEN$X, I wouldnt have checked the board since I was so excited to buy the car. Obviously I wasnt that stupid though, I had the carfax ran AND had McGriff Acura in Illinois do a COMPLETE inspection for $120. They told me that the car was in MINT condition in EVERY way, tranny, engine, paint, interior...... everything...

I would love to have that car and I was soooooo excited to get it especially because it was the 6-speed 3.2L.

MANY thanks to PHOEN$X. I feel like getting you a big gift! You saved me $44k.

Hopefully I'll have my looooooong awaited NSX soon and I can join all of you happy NSX owners.

Bijan Kohan
 
IS300nowNSXsoon said:
... I had the carfax ran AND had McGriff Acura in Illinois do a COMPLETE inspection for $120. They told me that the car was in MINT condition in EVERY way, tranny, engine, paint, interior...... everything...
Bijan Kohan
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A dealership is not necessarily the best place to inspect a car for prior accidents unless they have a significant collision repair shop and enlist one of their most experienced guys to pick it apart.

I'm not aware of any shops around here that specialize in that type of inspection, but I'd be surprised if they don’t' exist in major markets for upscale cars.
 
sjs said:
A dealership is not necessarily the best place to inspect a car for prior accidents unless they have a significant collision repair shop and enlist one of their most experienced guys to pick it apart.
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And McGrath (not McGriff) Acura does not have anywhere near as much NSX experience as a few others in town. IMO their inspection would be for things like brake pad wear, etc that are common to all cars. I would not expect them to know enough to check for problems common to the NSX.
 
Lud said:
Look for JH4NA2167VT000020 to be listed for sale again in the next couple days.
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Where is it listed? I'm curious to see it.
 

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