Yeah, I thought about your car a lot while it was for sale. It looked great and had nice mods. It was pretty high on my candidate list, but after a lot of thought I realized I needed the peace of mind of dual airbags, so that ruled out '91-'92. I definitely wouldn't have low-balled on it; your price was good.Spinner said:Its people like this that kind of pissed me off a bit when I was selling my NSX. They always go: "But KBB says...." If you see the asking price is nowhere near the KBB why even waste the seller's time by lowballing him/her with KBB offers. *rant off*
BTW, I sold it for way more than KBB.
NSX's Private party value?
- Thread starter enkrypt3d
- Start date
I insure my NSX through Hagerty, a well known collector car insurance company. These guys deal with specialty cars' value all day long, so they must know a thing about specialty cars value. They happily insure my 91 NSX for a stated value of $40,000. Like others said, so much for KBB..
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I had to pay over KBB for my '94 NSX that I just bought. I haven't seen an NSX with decent miles anywhere near KBB. I paid $35K for my NSX w/ 18K miles. It seems like a good deal even though the book doesn't say so.
F1VTEC said:I insure my NSX through Hagerty, a well known collector car insurance company. These guys deal with specialty cars' value all day long, so they must know a thing about specialty cars value. They happily insure my 91 NSX for a stated value of $40,000. Like others said, so much for KBB..
I just went on Hagerty's web site, is it classified as exotic where it says modifications? They list the Dodge Viper as an example, I'm pretty sure there were fewer NSX's made than Viper's.
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nsxtasy said:
Lets keep the flames to a miniumum..... I know its hard NSXTASY with that automatic "flame" button on your keyboard but please try to refrain. :biggrin: I'm merely trying to be objective here and it has been quite a while since I have looked for another NSX... When I bought my 1991 NSX I bought it for $29,500 with 77k miles and it had a few mods like custom wheels, a chip and exhaust tips etc.. nothing major by any means... and all I was doing by posting here was showing my surprise that the same exact car is going for more than what I bought the car 5 years ago... I'm still pretty shocked...
and no im not mad at anyone. And does it sound like I'm upset? I'm not.
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cebernstein said:
Yes I would consider this a very good deal. But for a car that has over 100k miles, even with the mods, I *personally* wouldn't feel comfortable paying 36k for an NSX even if it did have some mods... (some of those mods like the seats I would sell later anyways).... :smile:
I just wish there was something better than just KBB out there. When I had my NSX, I had progressive (and never will again).... when I got into a small fender bender, it was pure hell trying to get them to pay for all the repairs. I had progressive when I had my old prelude when it got stolen and this car too had some mods (intake headers & exhaust w/ rims) and it was found later to be totalled.... progressive wouldn't even give me the blue book value... they didnt go online to find what a similar prelude was selling for at all... I know this because I asked them. They didn't use KBB but they said it was a similar service.
Now I realize that the NSX is a whole different animal. And I know this because I have loved this car ever since it was introduced. I don't want everyone to think I'm just bitching b/c I can't afford another NSX... that's not the issue. I'm ONLY trying to make sense of the NSX market today as it has changed 100% from the last time I was looking.....
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http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65579
It's ads like these that really confuse me... here's a 1995 NSX with 77k miles that has similar mods that sold for $31k (or less since we don't know who bought it or what it sold for) but its clear it didn't sell for more than $31k....
I know I know.... the seller can ask for what ever price he/she wants etc etc..... this is true.... It just seems that there is no logic to it... its certainly not the way it used to be.
It's ads like these that really confuse me... here's a 1995 NSX with 77k miles that has similar mods that sold for $31k (or less since we don't know who bought it or what it sold for) but its clear it didn't sell for more than $31k....
I know I know.... the seller can ask for what ever price he/she wants etc etc..... this is true.... It just seems that there is no logic to it... its certainly not the way it used to be.
I'm not flaming. I'm merely stating fact. I've given you as good advice as anyone in this topic.enkrypt3d said:
Based on your previous comment, I would answer "yes".enkrypt3d said:
There is: the pricing guide in the FAQ on this site.enkrypt3d said:
Not surprising, since Progressive is tied for the worst rating of any auto insurance company for claims handling (as well as for overall experience) in the latest J.D. Power study. Thanks for confirming my previous guess regarding which companies you weren't with.enkrypt3d said:
I've never sold cars, but I think it's a function of time. You can get a variable amount of money for your car depending on how long you are willing to advertise and wait. The '95 in that ad has a "I want to sell fast" price, the other car you looked at has a "I can wait 6 months" price.enkrypt3d said:
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nsxtasy said:I'm not flaming. I'm merely stating fact. I've given you as good advice as anyone in this topic. Based on your previous comment, I would answer "yes".
Oh come on man.... If I was upset you'd know it and everyone else would too. We are having a good discussion here...and I was only messing with you (hence the :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: ) etc etc anyways im talking to that guy now w/ the 92 nsx... just listed my Lexus on autotrader. we'll see what happens.
Mine too.enkrypt3d said:
Good luck!enkrypt3d said:im talking to that guy now w/ the 92 nsx... just listed my Lexus on autotrader. we'll see what happens.
enkrypt3d:
If this helps you, I just purchased a 1995 NSX-T from the ORIGINAL OWNER with all maintenance records from the day he bought it to the day he sold it, including timing belt/water pump service with 93,XXX miles on it 1,500 miles away from my home for $29,000. Be willing to travel to find what you want. My car has ZERO accident history confirmed in a PPI with all original and STOCK parts. No mods whatsoever.
Also, in my experience mods to any vehicle, be it a motorcycle or car, usually REDUCE the value of it, not increase it. My race bikes were always worth less because of the changes I made to them.
I'm sorry, but a 100K mile 1991 is NOT worth $36K, IMHO. I don't care what anyone says or how much we LOVE our cars. Too much is too much, even if I'd like my car to be worth $100K. Many on NSX Prime will flame me for this, but that car is simply not worth that money TO ME, and I've never even looked at the ad, I'm just basing my decison on the simple fact that it's a 1991 and has over 100k miles as described above. Maybe someone is willing to pay it, but I never would.
Just so you know, I shopped for a year to find the perfect car. Don't be in a hurry and you'll find what you want for a good price, but NOT KBB. Forget your KBB numbers, they're not at all accurate on exotics.
If this helps you, I just purchased a 1995 NSX-T from the ORIGINAL OWNER with all maintenance records from the day he bought it to the day he sold it, including timing belt/water pump service with 93,XXX miles on it 1,500 miles away from my home for $29,000. Be willing to travel to find what you want. My car has ZERO accident history confirmed in a PPI with all original and STOCK parts. No mods whatsoever.
Also, in my experience mods to any vehicle, be it a motorcycle or car, usually REDUCE the value of it, not increase it. My race bikes were always worth less because of the changes I made to them.
I'm sorry, but a 100K mile 1991 is NOT worth $36K, IMHO. I don't care what anyone says or how much we LOVE our cars. Too much is too much, even if I'd like my car to be worth $100K. Many on NSX Prime will flame me for this, but that car is simply not worth that money TO ME, and I've never even looked at the ad, I'm just basing my decison on the simple fact that it's a 1991 and has over 100k miles as described above. Maybe someone is willing to pay it, but I never would.
Just so you know, I shopped for a year to find the perfect car. Don't be in a hurry and you'll find what you want for a good price, but NOT KBB. Forget your KBB numbers, they're not at all accurate on exotics.
Not sure if you clicked the link he offered as an example. but that car is HEAVILY modified. Lets say a stock 91 w/100k miles goes for.... $23K, you gotta tack on the $9k+ for the 02 upgrade, $2-3k+ wheels, $2k for the nav system and theres MUCH more added to that car. My numbers are obviously off, but just that alone brings it to the $36k range, AND THEN add everything else done to the car. The other $8k+ I didn't mention. .So even going for half price of the mods in addition to the car, $36k isn't far off. But like everyone knows, when it comes to collectibles, it's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, whether it's you as the current owner, or the next owner.
Race bikes are a totally different animal. Jap sport bikes depreciate like rocks as it is. Then being a race machine, it's got a good chance of being stripped of non race neccessary parts. It's been rung out to the moon and back most heavily in 1-3rd. It's probably been crashed, dropped several times and that alone puts in the minds of many, bent fork, frame, swingarm, misalignment, etc etc. But a hard life is to expected of a sportbike, that is the general idea and why it's worth less. So it's worth quite a bit less even if you babied it. It's only worth a "good" amount to the people who know, and the person that owns it.
I mean hell, I walked away from a dealer trying to sell a used evo 8 at a good price. I sat in it, saw a strange box with wire coming out of it. Pulled it out from between the seat and console, clicked a switch and turned out it had color changing under car neon kit, i mean full rainbow spectrum. What respectable ADULT puts that stuff under their car? Then pop the hood, aftermarket intake, no biggy, then baby blue wire looming over some of the wire...... Again, who puts that color loom under their hood? Especially when the car is solid white? So they're all "upgrades" but to me, it's a downgrade in the pricing when you start to consider what potential type of previous owner had it........
Race bikes are a totally different animal. Jap sport bikes depreciate like rocks as it is. Then being a race machine, it's got a good chance of being stripped of non race neccessary parts. It's been rung out to the moon and back most heavily in 1-3rd. It's probably been crashed, dropped several times and that alone puts in the minds of many, bent fork, frame, swingarm, misalignment, etc etc. But a hard life is to expected of a sportbike, that is the general idea and why it's worth less. So it's worth quite a bit less even if you babied it. It's only worth a "good" amount to the people who know, and the person that owns it.
I mean hell, I walked away from a dealer trying to sell a used evo 8 at a good price. I sat in it, saw a strange box with wire coming out of it. Pulled it out from between the seat and console, clicked a switch and turned out it had color changing under car neon kit, i mean full rainbow spectrum. What respectable ADULT puts that stuff under their car? Then pop the hood, aftermarket intake, no biggy, then baby blue wire looming over some of the wire...... Again, who puts that color loom under their hood? Especially when the car is solid white? So they're all "upgrades" but to me, it's a downgrade in the pricing when you start to consider what potential type of previous owner had it........
I posted a long response, but chose to edit it in the end....
I never even looked at the post because I didn't want to put down anyone's price, but in agreeing with your point about the mods, my point is, why has much of this stuff been done? You should know which stuff I'm talking about, as you seem to know your mods.
I won't get into a debate about his price because he has every right to ask what he wants, but I have seen far better deals on unquestionable autos. Frankly put, it's a 1991 with over 100K miles from what I read. NOT worth that money in fair market.
As far as race bikes, you really don't know what you're saying about maintenance or what's returned to stock and removed prior to racing, like all stock bodywork (replaced before selling) or checking steering stops for where I've really used the bike's full potential which you didn't even mention. My race equipment is PERFECTLY maintained, right down to the bearings and seals, which are greased and checked EVERY TIME I store the bike. I'll leave it at that.
I never even looked at the post because I didn't want to put down anyone's price, but in agreeing with your point about the mods, my point is, why has much of this stuff been done? You should know which stuff I'm talking about, as you seem to know your mods.
I won't get into a debate about his price because he has every right to ask what he wants, but I have seen far better deals on unquestionable autos. Frankly put, it's a 1991 with over 100K miles from what I read. NOT worth that money in fair market.
As far as race bikes, you really don't know what you're saying about maintenance or what's returned to stock and removed prior to racing, like all stock bodywork (replaced before selling) or checking steering stops for where I've really used the bike's full potential which you didn't even mention. My race equipment is PERFECTLY maintained, right down to the bearings and seals, which are greased and checked EVERY TIME I store the bike. I'll leave it at that.
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BTW it's not MY car. Nor do I even know the individual.
As for sport bikes you mention steering stops? You "use the steering stops"? If you're using the steering stops, you're riding around in little circles at really slow speeds, even then it's nearly impossible to use the stops. Well unless of course you're tank slapping and assuming that it's normal.... As common sense about steering in both cars and bikes, higher speeds, small input, slower speeds, higher input.....
As for YOUR race bike, like I mentioned *ahem* in above post, only YOU and those close to you would know the history of your machine and how well you maintained it. As for the potential buyer, they probably or might, not know at all....
As for sport bikes you mention steering stops? You "use the steering stops"? If you're using the steering stops, you're riding around in little circles at really slow speeds, even then it's nearly impossible to use the stops. Well unless of course you're tank slapping and assuming that it's normal.... As common sense about steering in both cars and bikes, higher speeds, small input, slower speeds, higher input.....
As for YOUR race bike, like I mentioned *ahem* in above post, only YOU and those close to you would know the history of your machine and how well you maintained it. As for the potential buyer, they probably or might, not know at all....
Curious, why would you inspect the steering stops for again? I know I've reached down and inspected them before on sportbikes, but that is just to check for indications of damage from a hard crash or MASSIVE tankslapper.
Another long post about steering dynamics and sliding a bike that has been edited:
LMAO! You must obviosly know what you're talking about and I'm clueless. I'll defer to your massive knowledge of motorcyle racing that I'm sure you got from countless hours of track time and competition throughout the north east region and supersport and superstock starts. And I'm sure you've got over 10 years of off-road hare scrambles, enduro, and motoX starts as well.
If you'd like to discuss motorcycle racing, contact me on one of those message boards.
LMAO! You must obviosly know what you're talking about and I'm clueless. I'll defer to your massive knowledge of motorcyle racing that I'm sure you got from countless hours of track time and competition throughout the north east region and supersport and superstock starts. And I'm sure you've got over 10 years of off-road hare scrambles, enduro, and motoX starts as well.
If you'd like to discuss motorcycle racing, contact me on one of those message boards.
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blavenia said:
That's the problem- those one or two individuals who are willing to overpay for whatever car basically ruin the market.
Yeah, you'll have certain members on this board berating others who don't agree with their "expert" knowledge that a '03 NSX for example, isn't worth 67 large. All they're really doing is trying to artificially inflate the cost; unfortunately naive people read that and succumb to the brainwashing.
Very well put.
I can't comment on the value of a modified car. That depends on how much a buyer likes the modifications. However, on valuing a relatively stock NSX, here are the steps I would take:
1. Look at KBB to get their take on the car. You can use this value to talk down someone on price.
2. Do a listing of completed NSX sales on EBay. Completed sales will give you an idea were the market is at.
3. No go find a car and make an offer based on what you have learned. One of two things will happen. The seller will sell the car to someone else. In that case you know you were offering under market. The seller will choose to keep the car and that shows the seller was over market and you were smart enough not to by the over-priced car.
Remember - Only car sales set the market.
A 2004 NSX with less than 10,000 miles just sold on EBay for $59,900. I can provide the link. Now that sets the market. I would no longer pay over $60K for a 2004 NSX with more than 10K miles!
On another topic:
I had a car stolen a few years ago (1965 Mustang GT). My insurance company wanted to offer me less than market value. When I protested, they just asked that I clip some adds for the same car. I did and they paid me the average of those adds. A good insurance company won't make you take KBB. A bad one will....
1. Look at KBB to get their take on the car. You can use this value to talk down someone on price.
2. Do a listing of completed NSX sales on EBay. Completed sales will give you an idea were the market is at.
3. No go find a car and make an offer based on what you have learned. One of two things will happen. The seller will sell the car to someone else. In that case you know you were offering under market. The seller will choose to keep the car and that shows the seller was over market and you were smart enough not to by the over-priced car.
Remember - Only car sales set the market.
A 2004 NSX with less than 10,000 miles just sold on EBay for $59,900. I can provide the link. Now that sets the market. I would no longer pay over $60K for a 2004 NSX with more than 10K miles!
On another topic:
I had a car stolen a few years ago (1965 Mustang GT). My insurance company wanted to offer me less than market value. When I protested, they just asked that I clip some adds for the same car. I did and they paid me the average of those adds. A good insurance company won't make you take KBB. A bad one will....
That's ridiculous. The market is going to be what it's going to be. No one or two people, and no one or two transactions, can influence the entire market for our cars.MoreRPMs said:
Also ridiculous. Again, no one can "inflate prices" with claims about what any car is or isn't worth.MoreRPMs said:
There are 9,000 NSXs in this country, constantly being bought and sold over the internet and in hundreds of dealerships all over the country. And the percentage of those sellers and buyers who have any contact with any one individual making such claims is minuscule.
Everyone I've ever heard making such silly claims - and it is actually a surprisingly common occurrence - are those who are ticked off because they don't want to pay the market price for a given car. (Incidentally, this phenomenon is not unique to the NSX, but also occurs with other low-production cars which retain their value well, e.g. Integra Type R, BMW M3, etc.) Don't complain, because your complaints that prices are too high aren't going to affect the market any more than those individual sellers or posters you're complaining about affecting the market. If you don't want to pay the market value for a given car, don't buy it!
Only if they have no idea of what these cars sell for. Anyone who spends a lot of time in the NSX community and, as a result, is familiar with a lot of sale prices of actual transactions knows that the KBB prices are totally out of touch with reality*, as previously noted in this topic.cfra7 said:
If I were selling my car - and I'm not - I would identify anyone mentioning KBB prices as a time-waster who either isn't familiar with the NSX market, or is a "lowballer" who is hoping for the seller to be stupid enough to sell at that price. I would just tell them that if they think they can find cars for those prices, good luck, and hang up.
If you want to piss off potential sellers by showing your ignorance of the market, mentioning KBB is a good way to do it.
Maybe, maybe not. eBay prices tend to be somewhat lower than elsewhere (and eBay cars are often described with fewer details and less expertise than elsewhere). A better guide is the asking prices on Autotrader, leaving out the ones that are unusually high, and then deducting 5-10 percent as a "haggle factor". THAT will give you an idea where the market is.cfra7 said:
Not true. An individual car sale sets the market for that car only. Another, similar car may sell for more than that, or may not even sell at the same price. I've seen prices on eBay bounce all over the place for items that are identical or similar. It happens all the time.cfra7 said:
*KBB says that a '91 NSX with 70K miles, in good condition in downtown Chicago, for sale by a private party, is worth $19,025. If you believe that, please find me a dozen such cars at that price, and I'll buy all 12 of them. And I'll make an average of $10K profit on each one by re-selling them.
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nsxtasy said:
With so few cars for sale (just look at Autotrader for '91 to '94s), one person caninfluence the market. As an example the first NSX in the aforementioned search that comes up is a '91 with several mods, 38K mi., with exhorbitant asking price of $55K
. Let's say, for argument's sake, that this particular car has been listed for 2 months already. And let's also assume that it'll still be around 7 months from now. Then sometime in November, Joe Came Into New Money Smith, is looking for a toy and he hears through the grapevine about Prime. Well, he registers, posts about this car that has caught his fancy and a few members here "advise" him, given all the bells and whistles, that this car would be a "steal" at $47.5K. So, he gladly empties out his wallet, then shows off his newly acquired beauty on here.Point being, there were no takers, at least not within $20,000 of the seller's asking price. But, Mr. Uninformed isn't well-versed in exotics (or semi-exotics) so he plunks down a chunk of money.
Perfect example of one individual setting the market. Or more like, "spoiling" it.
nsxtasy said:
9,000 cars all on the market? Or 9000 built total in 15 years, of which what # remain? And of those left, how many for sale at this given moment?
The number of sales transactions of NSXs sold in a one year time frame pales in comparison to say, Accords sold in one day. So therefore, one or two individuals here, one or two there certainly can impact the market much more heavily than one or two in the Accord, Camry, or Focus world.
blavenia said:
Well I'm glad you know not a single thing about me. But that is the world of the internet. And Mr. Full lock, stop to stop on a sportbike on a race track, have fun with that. For your "years" of experience, your 1+1 doesn't add up to 2. Well unless you're doing flat track on dirt on your sport bike, then it holds water, even then, not likely. Enjoy inspecting those solid chunks of aluminum on the brace and nubs on the frame. I'm sure you "wear" those out alot. End of discussion, I think I've hijacked the thread enough and will leave your expert steering stop inspection skills to the MC forums.
