NSX vs RX7

[brahtw8]

Comments were based on the merits of a few NSX owners that mentioned that if the FD was reliable they would have gone with the FD instead.

That adds IMHO.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I believe those comments were made in regard to a purchase of a used NSX versus a used FD. I interpreted your NSX sales comment as applying to the sales of new NSXs, correct?

Given the few years that FDs were sold in the US and the price differential, as well as the fact that the FD's reputation did not materialize immediately but rather developed over time and mileage, I doubt very much that a more reliable FD would have impacted new NSX sales from 1993-1995.

 

[BATMANs]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I believe those comments were made in regard to a purchase of a used NSX versus a used FD. I interpreted your NSX sales comment as applying to the sales of new NSXs, correct?

Given the few years that FDs were sold in the US and the price differential, as well as the fact that the FD's reputation did not materialize immediately but rather developed over time and mileage, I doubt very much that a more reliable FD would have impacted new NSX sales from 1993-1995.

FD sales suffered when reports of them burning down a house from (what I would interpret as weight reduction measures gone too far) fuel lines not having clamps. Then other issue such as overheating, detonation (thanks to the low octane gas compared to the higher octane in Japan).

It doesn't take much, but word got around fast.

The second hit was that around that time SUV sales started to increase.

NSX didn't exactly blow out their numbers in sales per year, but Acura's reputation for reliability, sipping gas, amongst other positive attributes probably helped maintain a longer sales span than the FD (and other Japanese sport cars like the Supra).

 

[comtec]

I doubt that I am talking the NSX down as much as injecting some reality into the alleged internet "facts" that I have seen in this post and others over time.

Are you talking about the price and quality differential from my last post because that is quite obvious. Why do you care what someone posts on the internet about a car? If you are going to cleanup all the mistruths on the internet, you have a big job ahead of you :biggrin: .

The NSX is no exception when it comes to questionable and apparent subjective claims about it and (in this case) the FD, and vice versa.

Let's see the plain facts that are not skewed and some more objective information.

Sorry i have never driven a FD so i can't give any info on that. The only rx7 that i owned was a 1988 convertible and that thing was a slug :tongue: .

If you regard yourselves so highly over another car, then step up with proper information.

I'm sure you don't want this site to turn into some mkiv.com from back in the days. The folks that made a bold claim that the SupraTT is the "BEST SPORTS CAR THAT MONEY CAN BUY."

See that is the same thing that the other guys on the rx7 site always say (when talking to each other). It's always "Those guys at nsxprime think they are better than everyone else" and that is not true. I don't think my car is better than others i just like it more :biggrin: :biggrin: . Sure some people like to boast about their cars but you will see that on every car site that you visit.

 

[WingZ]

Is this the one?

No offense Batmans ,but the bottom article states Motortrend...LOL

I actually have this magazine as well.

Here's a quote from C&D article on the RX8. It references the problems they had with the as they called "Ravashing ,but infirm RX7"

"In 1993 we clunked, bobbled, and short-circuited our way through a 35,000-mile test of a Mazda RX-7. Our cost was zero for correcting a host of vexations, from an expired CD player to leaky shocks to an addled engine computer. But the RX-7's warranty had paid months of mortgages for the nincompoops at the dealership. Mazda purged the ravishing but infirm RX-7 from its U.S. catalog in 1995."

Dictionary.com gives the meaning of the word infirm.

–adjective
1. feeble or weak in body or health, esp. because of age; ailing.
2. unsteadfast, faltering, or irresolute, as persons or the mind; vacillating: infirm of purpose.
3. not firm, solid, or strong: an infirm support.

Their word not mine.

 

[WingZ]

FD sales suffered when reports of them burning down a house from (what I would interpret as weight reduction measures gone too far) fuel lines not having clamps. Then other issue such as overheating, detonation (thanks to the low octane gas compared to the higher octane in Japan).

It doesn't take much, but word got around fast.

The second hit was that around that time SUV sales started to increase.

NSX didn't exactly blow out their numbers in sales per year, but Acura's reputation for reliability, sipping gas, amongst other positive attributes probably helped maintain a longer sales span than the FD (and other Japanese sport cars like the Supra).

No the RX7 lost sales becuase of poor durability. A Ford F150 burned down a house and killed a family ,but that doesn't stop people from buying them. The RX7 was poorly excuted that's what killed it. Still a beauty though!

 

[BATMANs]

No the RX7 lost sales becuase of poor durability. A Ford F150 burned down a house and killed a family ,but that doesn't stop people from buying them. The RX7 was poorly excuted that's what killed it. Still a beauty though!

that too.

I didn't mention that since it is a universal given.

 

[docjohn]

I had to jump in not so much to say which is faster,but to my fond and not so fond memories.When the car first came out I got an 93 r1,black.The car really got a lot of compliments and what the hell is it?I enjoyed the elemental hard edged nature of the car,,,,but the car never got full power from the second turbo,the seats were brutal on the back,the paint chipped if you looked at it wrong,and the car had evil oversteer,not healthy for a young buck.The center console facia liked to chip away its surface,but the trannie and brakes worked fine!

 

[WingZ]

My apologies I got the quote wrong. C&D said "Mazda had a fine idea and built a real runner-----when it runs"

Also you mentioned poor fuel economy and at an avg 19mpg ( C&D ) test that's fine gas mileage for back in the day.

It's Honda's fault for not importing the NSX-R NA1 version. That's the car that would really have competed with the RX7 R1 and R2 packages. Oh well good for Mazda.

 

[MoreRPMs]

It's Honda's fault for not importing the NSX-R NA1 version. That's the car that would really have competed with the RX7 R1 and R2 packages. Oh well good for Mazda.

The Mazda R1/2 packages differed suspension-wise from the base model RX-7 in that they used Bilstein shocks and a front strut tower bar. It still had factory A/C, powersteering, and everything else the base had with the exception of cruise control. The NSX-R, on the other hand, was severely stripped of many items including the A/C, insulation, stereo and was easily the far less compromised "street" car, which no doubt pounded its passengers 10 times worse than the comparatively mild R from Mazda.

 

[John Corbitt]

I have had all three gen RX-7s including one of the first FDs to catch on fire. I have raced in SCCA with an ITS RX-7. I have almost a million miles driving Rotaries, including my Ugly RX-8. I have never had an engine failure. All my cars are stock. Handling wise I like the RX-8 better than any car I have owned. I bought the RXs for their performance and uniqueness. This is why I also bought the NSX. The NSX in my opinion is one of the most beautiful pieces of artwork ever made. Performance is close to the FD. The RX-8 is not a piece of crap like some here have said here. It, like the 7s is unique. It was designed to be ran hard. The problems are with the ones that have been babied. My 8 will probably be the only car I will mod, as it lacks the torque that th FD and the NSX have. The NSX has been an absolute pleasure to drive, but I have not driven any other car that shifts as well as the RXs and the Miatas. I wish I never sold my FD, but then I might not have bought an NSX.

Bottom line for me: I would not give my NSX up for my FD but I also would not give up my RX-8 for the NSX.

John

 

[ericwgnsx]

The second hit was that around that time SUV sales started to increase.

NSX didn't exactly blow out their numbers in sales per year, but Acura's reputation for reliability, sipping gas,

SUV sales affected RX-7 sales??? "Let's see...I'll either buy a Japanese two-seat turbo sports car or a Ford Explorer..."
Ahh, I don't think so. They are two completely separate markets.

"sipping gas" as a consideration for purchasing an expensive (in 1993-94) exotic car??
gas was like $1.10 per gallon...nobody cared about gas prices

 

[MoreRPMs]

SUV sales affected RX-7 sales??? "Let's see...I'll either buy a Japanese two-seat turbo sports car or a Ford Explorer..."
Ahh, I don't think so. They are two completely separate markets.

You don't realize how stupid people out there think. In the mid 90s I met a 300ZX TT (heavily modded) owner who dumped it for a station wagon of the 90s. I'm sure there are tons of other examples like this one.

 

[WingZ]

The Mazda R1/2 packages differed suspension-wise from the base model RX-7 in that they used Bilstein shocks and a front strut tower bar. It still had factory A/C, powersteering, and everything else the base had with the exception of cruise control. The NSX-R, on the other hand, was severely stripped of many items including the A/C, insulation, stereo and was easily the far less compromised "street" car, which no doubt pounded its passengers 10 times worse than the comparatively mild R from Mazda.

Those things ( R1 ) were hardly street cars. The R1 suspension had to dropped after one year because it was just to stiff for the street. The R2 was only mildly better. So the 10 times better thing is merely speculation.

 

[WingZ]

Performance is close to the FD.

You mean between the NA1 NSX and the FD right. NA2 did surpass the 93-95 RX7's

Bottom line for me: I would not give my NSX up for my FD but I also would not give up my RX-8 for the NSX.

Really different cars was someone on here comparing the RX8 to the NSX now

 

[lowellhigh79]

As an original owner since 1992, I have seen the RX7 and Supra come and go. I remember my sinking feeling when I first read about the NSX killer. Here we were going after the 911 and 348 and up from behind comes a faster Japanese car. Lighter and marginally faster with better handling and comparable braking, and worse yet, the RX7 was far easier to extract more horses with chip/exhaust/turbo upgrade. Yes, reliability may be the achilles heel of the RX7, but for half the price, it was very much a performance bargain. Same goes for the Supra, which I view as a bigger, stronger, but heavier version of the RX7. If I recall, the RX7 beat the NSX in just about every magazines' handling and lapping tests (Danny Sullivan and Steve Millen were drivers in two seperate tests).
Having said all this, this is actually a testament to the build quality of the NSX. Mazda made many compromises in producing such a lightweight performer, as pointed out in prior posts. The NSX had almost indistigiushable performance as the RX7, yet is still such a solid car almost 16 years later. That I think is where the difference lies- lasting performance through superior design and execution and a look that is still fresh every time I see one on the road.

Best Regards,

Danny

 

[ediddynsx]

As an original owner since 1992, I have seen the RX7 and Supra come and go. I remember my sinking feeling when I first read about the NSX killer. Here we were going after the 911 and 348 and up from behind comes a faster Japanese car. Lighter and marginally faster with better handling and comparable braking, and worse yet, the RX7 was far easier to extract more horses with chip/exhaust/turbo upgrade. Yes, reliability may be the achilles heel of the RX7, but for half the price, it was very much a performance bargain. Same goes for the Supra, which I view as a bigger, stronger, but heavier version of the RX7. If I recall, the RX7 beat the NSX in just about every magazines' handling and lapping tests (Danny Sullivan and Steve Millen were drivers in two seperate tests).
Having said all this, this is actually a testament to the build quality of the NSX. Mazda made many compromises in producing such a lightweight performer, as pointed out in prior posts. The NSX had almost indistigiushable performance as the RX7, yet is still such a solid car almost 16 years later. That I think is where the difference lies- lasting performance through superior design and execution and a look that is still fresh every time I see one on the road.

Best Regards,

Danny

Thats right Danny represent it

 

[hofffam]

SUV sales affected RX-7 sales??? "Let's see...I'll either buy a Japanese two-seat turbo sports car or a Ford Explorer..."
Ahh, I don't think so. They are two completely separate markets.

"sipping gas" as a consideration for purchasing an expensive (in 1993-94) exotic car??
gas was like $1.10 per gallon...nobody cared about gas prices

I think SUVs DID kill the RX7 and the 300ZX. Male drivers, the traditional buyers of true sports cars, went macho with 4WD vehicles for a while. Porsche and Corvette weren't affected to much, but their sales dropped off for a while.

Obviously Mazda and Nissan brought their sports cars back with new, interesting designs. And have done well overall.

When I thought about buying a sports car last year - my first thought was an RX8. I owned an RX4 in college, and an 81 RX7. I have always loved rotaries. I don't like convertibles so the S2000 was a no go. And most road tests said the RX8 was a better car overall than the 350Z. But then I remembered how much I liked the 91 NSX I drove many years ago and I quickly became possessed with the idea of an NSX.

 

[BATMANs]

I think SUVs DID kill the RX7 and the 300ZX. Male drivers, the traditional buyers of true sports cars, went macho with 4WD vehicles for a while. Porsche and Corvette weren't affected to much, but their sales dropped off for a while.....

Agreed.

When the FD, Supra, japanese "super-cars" started to show up on US shores, the SUV craze started (if not already) to hit.

The big IPOs haven't hit yet so many folks that had a $30k~ budget opted for the more practical car that was fun in other areas.

 

[Ponyboy]

Ick gad, some of you owners have got your panties in a wad. The FD is an awesome car in almost every respect and deserves it's place in Japanese sports car legend. The NSX's performance #'s can stand on their own w/o the overly demeaning rebuttles.

I wish I'd see more at the track though. I've only tracked with a few and they haven't been the most reliable (though either has my NSX) vehicles in the paddock.

When I was shopping for my "sports car," a yellow R1, a black ZR-1, and the NSX were my ideal choices. Obviously, I feel in love with the NSX and I haven't regretted it once.

 

[WingZ]

Agreed.

When the FD, Supra, japanese "super-cars" started to show up on US shores, the SUV craze started (if not already) to hit.

Japanese "super-cars" had been around nearly three years before the the Supra and RX7 showed up. Plus the RX7 was the cheapest of the lot just a little more than than a NA 300ZX. Had Mazda offered an even less expensive NA versions with 2+2 option I honestly think the third gen RX7 would've been around longer. Opting for just a high performance version was another bad move on Mazda's part as the 3000gt, 300ZX and Supra were able to get sales off of more than just their top of the line offering.

Also don't forget that another thing that killed the Japanese super cars was price. Although still much cheaper than the European competition they were still considered very pricey. The Supra was selling for over $50k before Toyota did a $10k price reduction. The Z TT was up to $48K ,while the VR4 hard top convertible was over $60k. Still a lot for Americans to swallow for Japanese cars.

 

[BATMANs]

Right, not long after that the German Roadsters started to pop up for a little more $$$ and a lot more "prestige."

 

[Frank Spano]

The rx-7 is a great car as well. I had a 94 Rx-7 R2 package which was considered the track package. I drove it daily and hard, never had a problem with the seals luckily. I put the full re-amamyia body kit on it and avs vs5 wheels, with some HKS and Greddy parts and that car was a blast to drive. I would definately consider another one, but would never sell the nsx for it. Frank

 

[WingZ]

Right, not long after that the German Roadsters started to pop up for a little more $$$ and a lot more "prestige."

Don't forget "a Lot" less performance.

 

[BATMANs]

and more weight..........

 

[AutoVation]

check your steering bushings if you think the nsx is sloppier than the FD. there is no play in mine... look at the wheel and it will turn almost... hella better than any FD i've driven or even my own rx7...

I wonder if he installed heavy aftermarket wheels? I switched from the PO's Blitz 03's to some TE-37's and the handling difference was like night and day.