I went to my local RollsRoyce/Bentley/Lotus dealer with my NSX to look at some used Ferraris and Lamborghinis which they had on the lot. Not only did nobody come out to greet me at all but the first thing out of the salesperson's mouth when I went to ask a question was a derogatory comment about NSXs in general. Sheesh! A real snooty bunch of people there!!!
nsx to dealership
- Thread starter Synthesis
- Start date
Synthesis said:
Synthesis said:
I think zahntech put it pretty well...
zahntech said:
The point I think he and I would agree on is that intent (liklihood, strong possibility, whatever you want to call it) to purchase is implied when a car is taken for a test drive. I don't think it's ethical to take a car for a test drive if one doesn't have that intent and doesn't disclose this to the salesman. If I were a salesman I think I would probably directly ask (and not assume) so someone with an attitude similar to yours doesn't think they're somehow being ethical on a technicality.
I don't see much difference between telling someone you're really looking to buy (when you're not) and letting them assume this is (or is possibly) the case.
Synthesis said:
Ownership gives one the right to drive a car, not enthusiasm or being present on a dealership lot. If you want to drive one, arrange for such through an owner...without false pretenses (spoken or implied). These cars are not your property...they are the property of the dealership and will become the property of an individual owner. I think it's implied that the dealership opens them up for test drives for people who are actually interested in and able to become such an owner. They do so without throrough means tests as a courtesy and I don't think that courtesy should be exploited as a loophole. If you want to drive one you have several very ethical options:
- Disclose your lack of means/intent and see if they'll give you a test drive anyway.
- If you ever buy a (another) car from that dealer see if you can work a test drive of the car you want to drive into the deal. A local Mercedes dealership tried to close the deal on a used A6 with my dad by telling him that if he bought the car today he could take their Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren for a drive.
- If you're a good customer of the service department at an Acura dealership (all your maintanance done & mods installed there) that is under similar ownership with the dealership who has the car you want to drive. Try to arrange a drive via that relationship.
- Work hard, save up, buy the car in 5-10-20 years (depreciation can often be helpful in this regard).
- If you ever meet an owner (or one is a friend of a friend of a friend) ask them for a ride...maybe they'll let you drive. Part of the joy of NSX ownership for me is being able to let people I know who dig NSXs (but don't or can't own one) get to experience one. I'm sure there are owners of the cars you're talking about (minus something like an F1) who feel the same way ... especially if they see you're into their car as much (if not more) than they are.
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Synthesis said:
Just because a dealer employee decides to disrespect his or her employer buy using the property of the dealer (or financing company/manufacturer) improperly, does that make it ok for you to do it too?....I guess two wrongs make a right......JZ
latzke said:
is that not the dealer doing exactly what a person trying to get a test drive is doing? using a test drive of a nice car that is not going to be purchased just to close a deal on some A6? isn't this an example of the dealership (or the salesman) doing something inethical? how would accepting an inethical gesture be ethical? with your logic, that wouldn't be right either. (cause it's not like i wasn't offered to drive those cars too....)
and you can take it a step further. how about the corporate division of these car companies. they send these cars to the dealerships based on projected sales. if they knew half of the crap the dealer did to the car, they wouldn't rest very easy. dealer doesn't do what they are supposed to do half the time. (i know of an owner of a dealership who took a carerra GT out for a week for personal use.)
so essentially what i'm saying is that a little ride in a nice car really isn't that bad in the grand scheme of things, especially when the car is respected and not treated like a rental (but that's a whole nother topic). thing's probably better off in your hands for that 10 min than it is in the dealer's hands.
and, yeah, i could save up my money for these cars, but i don't need to save my money to drive them. maybe what some people need is a reason to shut out all other purchases to justify saving for 5 years for a car. maybe the car that they thought was awesome isn't any better than the nsx they drove onto the lot 5 years prior.
i'm surprised this thread even became an ethical/non ethical thing. it's a test drive.... not exactly philosophy class material. :smile: but i guess i can see why people would be touchy about what happens to nice, brand new cars.
either way, i respect your guys' thoughts, but i thought i'd give my input too. i hope i'm not offending anybody..... cause i love this site, and you guys are what make it
latzke said:
Oh it's not hard to just test drive cars and be eithical about it. Most sales people I've noticed will "talk you into" test driving the car anyways. Sorta get you to consider I guess the idea of getting that car. Thats even when you tell them you just wanna check it out. I've done that too and they're like "hey lets go for a spin! Lets see if I can change your mind"
Attributed to the wrong person. I've corrected this. Very sorry about that.:redface:zahntech said:Originally Posted by zahntech
i'm never gonna be able to drive these cars otherwise (unless my plans to win mega millions actually happens hehe)
I didn't post this
I went looking at an Infinity G35c and the salesman grabbed the keys for a testdrive and then as we get in the car he tells me we can only drive it around the dealer lot. I turned to him and said, "you have got to be sh!tin me." Didn't even start the car, got up and walked out. What's the point of driving a car, yet a sportscar, 15 mph around a crowded dealer lot. Gee that thing really gets up and goes in first gear to 10. And the way it handles around that curve doing 12 is something else.
Went to another dealer an hour later, he threw me the keys and said have fun bring it back whenever. Bought the car.
Went to another dealer an hour later, he threw me the keys and said have fun bring it back whenever. Bought the car.
Sorry, but I don't follow. The dealership OWNS the car - it's theirs to do with what they please until it's sold. If they're willing to risk resale value of the car by putting miles on it before it's sold...that their rightful choice as the owner of the vehicle. If they then tell the prospective buyer of that car that it's never been driven and those miles are from "transport" - then it would be unethical IMO.Synthesis said:
The SLR in my example was taken out on drives fairly frequently around that same time...so what the salesperson offered was obviously within practices that the dealership's GM permitted (I don't think an SLR goes out the door, especially that frequently, w/o GM's OK). You give an example of a dealership's owner taking a Carrera GT as his personal car for the week. Same deal, car is functionally his ... and it's his loss if that use of the car impacts the selling price. I think it's common practice for dealership owners/management to have a company car as a legitimate part of compensation (a perk)...which translates into driving various dealership-owned cars for varying lengths of time. The dealership is the owner of these vehicles at that time and has every right to permit (or deny) such uses of their property...and has the ethical obligation to be honest about such with potential buyers.
If the dealership doesn't allow such things (using a test drive to close a deal, management/ownership company cars) then doing so would be unethical. However, I think both are common practice and something that most dealerships permit.
I'm very much an individual rights & freedom kind of guy. Each person has the freedom to do what they wish with their own property...and nobody else has a right to that property but the owner. I think it's fine to take a ride if the owner approves - but I think such approval shouldn't be gotten without full and honest disclosure of intentions (or lack thereof) to buy. I see your point when you say, "a little ride in a nice car really isn't that bad in the grand scheme of things, especially when the car is respected and not treated like a rental" - but being a little unethical is unethical none-the-less. I think how one acts with small matters is usually a good indication of how that person will act with big matters because they fail to draw the line between unethical and ethical (but instead draw it between "a little unethical" and "a lot unethical" - a moving target).
I'm not trying to be high and mighty. I can recall 7+ years ago taking a couple cars for a drive that I didn't intend to buy, without letting the salesman know this. I wish I hadn't. It's a shame I traded my charactor to drive a nice car or two. I intend not to make the same mistake again...and would like to encourage others to not similarly trade their charactor (for anything...much less such a small price).
Synthesis said:
YOUR THE REASON WE RUN CREDIT BEFORE TEST DRIVING HIGH-PERFORMANCE CARS!:wink:
I think a lot of these dealerships want you to test drive the car, because it brings them one step closer to a sale. Doesn't matter if you have zero intent to buy the car, some people still think they can change your mind.
Now, like Zahntech said, if you tell them you're not interested and they still want you to test drive it...fine...whatever. If you go in there and tell them you're interested when you're really not, well, that's not very cool.
We went to go check out the Lexus GX470 about 2 weeks ago and they practically threw it in our lap...even after we kept telling them that we really did not want to buy a car that day. They insisted that we take it home, etc etc, thank goodness we didn't. They really try to talk you into a deal sometimes, so I really try to stay away from even looking at cars until I'm ready to buy these days. (mistakes happen tho of course, and I chalk that one up as a mistake).
Now, like Zahntech said, if you tell them you're not interested and they still want you to test drive it...fine...whatever. If you go in there and tell them you're interested when you're really not, well, that's not very cool.
We went to go check out the Lexus GX470 about 2 weeks ago and they practically threw it in our lap...even after we kept telling them that we really did not want to buy a car that day. They insisted that we take it home, etc etc, thank goodness we didn't. They really try to talk you into a deal sometimes, so I really try to stay away from even looking at cars until I'm ready to buy these days. (mistakes happen tho of course, and I chalk that one up as a mistake).
I've known far too many POOR immigrant south east asians who drive to the toyota dealership in a poodunk looking 198X toyota pickup loaded with the wife(wives), multiple kids, on public assistance (welfare/food stamps) but save every dollar they can for years and years, sell veggies and chickens at the flea market, then pull out a HUGE wad of cash and buy a brand new Tundra or Sequoia for $30k+, cash. Ask any s/e asian from the california central valley and they should be able to tell you the same story.
This board is NO place for such ignorant and sick generalization. This kind of RACIST comment makes me sick. How many South East Asians do you know? Let alone "far too many" of them live their lives the way you describe it.
FGS, this is a car forum. It's not a place to judge someone's life.
As the NSX ages and drops in prices. I agree with many of you that it just attracts a certain immature crowd with undesirable behavior.
This board is NO place for such ignorant and sick generalization. This kind of RACIST comment makes me sick. How many South East Asians do you know? Let alone "far too many" of them live their lives the way you describe it.
FGS, this is a car forum. It's not a place to judge someone's life.
As the NSX ages and drops in prices. I agree with many of you that it just attracts a certain immature crowd with undesirable behavior.
KooLaid said:
This board is NO place for such ignorant and sick generalization. This kind of RACIST comment makes me sick. How many South East Asians do you know? Let alone "far too many" of them live their lives the way you describe it.
FGS, this is a car forum. It's not a place to judge someone's life.
As the NSX ages and drops in prices. I agree with many of you that it just attracts a certain immature crowd with undesirable behavior.
Acura NsX Pilot said:the salesman who should have been trying to help my brother couldnt stop asking me questions about my can and wanted to go look at it more
Wow, you must work out a lot for him be that enamored of your butt!
Shumdit said:
sick puppy:tongue:
ok, you're right. I'm a dirty racist that hates asians.
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and it seems you don't like to reply to pm's either. then you'd wouldn't go flapping off just now and you'd know sarcasm.
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BTW, the sarcasm thing was about being a racist and hating asians. I don't take back a single comment I've made about S/E asians though. I have my reasons and it has NOTHING to do with being a so called racist nor is it even bashing. I just found it odd why you wouldn't want to hear answers to your own questions either.
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BTW, the sarcasm thing was about being a racist and hating asians. I don't take back a single comment I've made about S/E asians though. I have my reasons and it has NOTHING to do with being a so called racist nor is it even bashing. I just found it odd why you wouldn't want to hear answers to your own questions either.
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That comment about S/E asians was just wrong. You could've came up with a better example.
I, myself can generalize and stereotype any race on a public forum, but I choose not to, because it is never the truth. Maybe it did not come out the way you meant, but no matter how you slice it, that was uncalled for.
I wish I never read this thread - I'm new to this forum and everyone has so far been very generous with their thoughts, ideas, suggestions and information, but this thread just left a bad taste in my mouth.
I, myself can generalize and stereotype any race on a public forum, but I choose not to, because it is never the truth. Maybe it did not come out the way you meant, but no matter how you slice it, that was uncalled for.
I wish I never read this thread - I'm new to this forum and everyone has so far been very generous with their thoughts, ideas, suggestions and information, but this thread just left a bad taste in my mouth.
Dont try this at a Chevy dealership though hoping to drive a vette. We had a thread about that a while ago, and while SOME people got to drive vettes, the majority were met with an attitude. I was told by the sales manager 'vette buyers don't test drive and they pay list price'. This was right before made the unsolicited comment that his Saleen mustang "with 700HP" would kill my NSX. (Disclaimer: It might not have been 700 but it was a ridiculous number, I'm sure I put his exact quote in the other post when my memory was fresh).
Wow.
2 pages on this topic?
2 pages on this topic?
wow, you actually registered on the forums to make that one pointless response?
well thank you zahn, atleast you didn't manage to find some sort of offensive racist comment out of that. I don't know how the two other folks did?
