NSX test mule spotted running against MP412C, R8 and 458
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Do you think these features are something Honda don't care to do, or they're not quite there technology wise? Because to me, those are minor features if Honda is willing to up the prices of their car. Insight is significantly cheaper than Prius (with lack of option I shall say).
That's purely imagination though. Honda hasn't been toying with they've tried it in different areas and tried it performance wise BEFORE Toyota did.
Toyota has been better able to market that's all.
Best selling does not meet best driving ..just saying
I guess because we didn't have an internet plus the fact that sooo many so called NSX fans forget that the ORIGINAL NSX was tested against the 328 and it took Ferrari two models to catch up to it.
How are their hybrids the most efficient? Do your homework Dave the Highlander maybe be rated higher but in real testing only gets 1mpg better than the Chevy Tahoe. Honda NEVER targeted the Prius with the Insight! The Insight was ALWAYS meant to be the LOWEST priced hybrid on the market. Toyota REDUCED the price of the Prius to make it compete with the Insight. Also in tests the Prius only beat the Insight by 5mpg AND the Insight comes closer to meeting it's EPA than the Prius does.
NSX will still have an IMA in the tranny (which you should know by now:wink
but the fronts will be the newer tech.
So what is Honda suppose to do, Go to Ferrari, McLaren, and Audi and ask for the prototypes of the cars they would be replacing the R8, 458, and MP4 with? Everyone is making speculation off of nothing. We don't know anything at this point.
Point taken, they're using the best competition for today. I guess the years of waiting for a new NSX have jaded me. I'm not a pure numbers guy, I'd much rather have a well balanced, fun to drive car with a truly classic design that can keep up with the other big hitters. It doesn't need to be the fastest or have the most HP. The biggest issue for me will be the if the new NSX looks like the concept. If so, I'll be looking at other cars.
I said I hoped I was wrong. And I didn't know about an Accord hybrid SHAWD prototype. That would be good news.
But I still am skeptical about a lot of things related to Honda, especially with hybrids. Honda hasn't shown in the last five years that they can do much right. The idea of a 400 Hp hybrid supercar is pretty incredible considering that the blend of gasoline and electric power on different axles requires enormous sophistication and refinement.
Honda hybrids are awful! Current Honda engines are perhaps five years behind best in class at the same displacement. Honda's most sophisticated transmission has just 6 speeds.
That's why I'm not optimistic Honda shows us a street ready car in two years. Maybe Honda announced the car so early so that their lazy engineers get scared and actually start working.
Do your homework Dave the Highlander maybe be rated higher but in real testing only gets 1mpg better than the Chevy Tahoe. Honda NEVER targeted the Prius with the Insight! The Insight was ALWAYS meant to be the LOWEST priced hybrid on the market. Toyota REDUCED the price of the Prius to make it compete with the Insight. Also in tests the Prius only beat the Insight by 5mpg AND the Insight comes closer to meeting it's EPA than the Prius does.
NSX will still have an IMA in the tranny (which you should know by now:wink
Perry I have personal experience with these cars, and highlander hybrid was more efficient over a period of a month than my 4 cylinder Honda element. With much more room and power. It is nothing like a Tahoe. Where do you get this kind of thing from? Someone ranting on the web? The insight absolutely 100% targeted the Prius and tried to undercut it. Dude No one is buying insights. Consumer reports raped it in a Prius comparison. They are the same size, around roughly the same points, they even look alike. Have you driven both? I have. Not once, but like 300 times. The Prius is 10x more refined. Anyway let's not keyboard jockey this issue to death... Honda has a lot of strong suits but Toyota has better hybrid technology. That's one area you'd really have to put your Honda goggles on to not see. Stop being such a Honda fanboy... LOL...
Hopefully they will turn it around with the NSX.
My last on the subject
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2008-chevrolet-tahoe-hybrid-road-test
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2011-toyota-highlander-hybrid-road-test-review
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2010-honda-insight-vs-2010-toyota-prius-1998-chevy-metro-comparison-test
Done and bite me:biggrin:
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Worthy opponents?
I would rather see NSX going against faster cars...such as GT-R, 911 GT2, Viper, ZR-1 and LFA.
Nurburgring Laptime
Lexus LFA - 7:14.64 (Nurburgring Edition, stock RE070 street tires)
Nissan GT-R - 7:24.22 (semi-wet condition)
Chevrolet ZR-1: 7:26.40 (7:19.63 w/Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Zero Pressure)
Dodge Viper: 7:22.10 (7:12.13 w/Michelin Pilot Sport Cup R-Compound)
Porsche 911 GT2 RS: 7:24.00 (7:18.00 w/Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Plus N2)
These 3 cars aren't as fast...
Ferrari 485: 7:32.92
Audi R8 V10: 7:44.00
McLaren MP4-12C: 7:28.00
Lol here we go again. I would take any three of those cars over the ones you listed. Yes, even the R8.
I would be impressed if the new NSX was even faster than the NSX-r at 7:56. It will surely weigh more than the Type R. If they get it even with a 458 I would be shocked. I hope they do!
I would love to see what a Ctsc and lovefab NSX would do on the ring.
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Also Timpo, those top numbers that you listed by Nissan, Dodge, GM, Porsche and Lexus had extensive testing on the track to meet these low numbers and were backed and funded by the companies themselves. They spent countless hours on Nurburgring whereas other third party testers do not have that luxury.
The numbers you listed for the 458 and R8 V10 were done by a third party - Autobil. The MP4-12C's 7:28 time by Sports Auto was a one lap, first run I believe, not repeated laps to get the lowest times. Sports Auto's 458 time was 7:38 vs Autobil's 7:32. You can already see the wide range of times with different testers. Ferrari and McLaren never released official numbers and I don't think a single track was the biggest priority on their list. I am also sure they don't have to justify or prove their cars' performance numbers either.
Just to put things in perspective. Autobild did times for other cars too:
GT3 RS 4.0 - 7:34.9
LFA - 7:38.8
LP-570 SL - 7:40.8
Audi R8 GT - 7:40.9
458 - 7:32.9
Turbo S - 7:41.2
Corvette ZR1 - 7:41.5
Nissan GTR - 7:43.6
That would put the McLaren in the front of the pack if you consider the variables. So I am sure the 458, R8 and MP4-12C could extract much better numbers from a single track with multiple tries given the discrepancies between official records and best third party times.
Again, take these marketing schemes and bragging rights with a grain of salt.
The numbers you listed for the 458 and R8 V10 were done by a third party - Autobil. The MP4-12C's 7:28 time by Sports Auto was a one lap, first run I believe, not repeated laps to get the lowest times. Sports Auto's 458 time was 7:38 vs Autobil's 7:32. You can already see the wide range of times with different testers. Ferrari and McLaren never released official numbers and I don't think a single track was the biggest priority on their list. I am also sure they don't have to justify or prove their cars' performance numbers either.
Just to put things in perspective. Autobild did times for other cars too:
GT3 RS 4.0 - 7:34.9
LFA - 7:38.8
LP-570 SL - 7:40.8
Audi R8 GT - 7:40.9
458 - 7:32.9
Turbo S - 7:41.2
Corvette ZR1 - 7:41.5
Nissan GTR - 7:43.6
That would put the McLaren in the front of the pack if you consider the variables. So I am sure the 458, R8 and MP4-12C could extract much better numbers from a single track with multiple tries given the discrepancies between official records and best third party times.
Again, take these marketing schemes and bragging rights with a grain of salt.
"Bite me"? I slept with an ugly secretary at a law firm for you.... what else do you want?
You said Tahoe, not Tahoe hybrid. And the Highlander is better anyway. I like how you present links that support what I said instead of what you said. Stop hating Toyota. They have good hybrid tech. I want to see a Fuel Cell NSX with a MASSIVE fuel cell. Like with enough hydrogen to fill the hindenburgh in its tank. :biggrin:
Osiris_x11
Gold Member, Moderator: Marketplace
oye...
I'll gladly take an '14 NSX_2.0 for ~$125k if it's still 9/10 of the current 458 Italia, MP4-12C, GT2-RS, R8-GT V10... and even if their successors further up the ante! It's all about usability & street-ability meeting sensibility & practicality for me!
A composite/alloy monocoque w/ KERS/hybrid-assist via multiple electrical-motors paired w/ SW-AWD can potentially offer mind-bending performance metrics...
I'll gladly take an '14 NSX_2.0 for ~$125k if it's still 9/10 of the current 458 Italia, MP4-12C, GT2-RS, R8-GT V10... and even if their successors further up the ante! It's all about usability & street-ability meeting sensibility & practicality for me!
A composite/alloy monocoque w/ KERS/hybrid-assist via multiple electrical-motors paired w/ SW-AWD can potentially offer mind-bending performance metrics...
Hey you got laid so quite complainin. Thanks for taking one for the team though.
No they didn't Dave Prius MPG was only 5 mpg better than the Insight and it came in behind the Insight as far as the comparison went. You claimed the Highlander hybrids fuel economy was far better than anything in it's class I showed that's not true as the Tahoe hybrid was only 1mpg behind.
Three for three time for you to trade your NSX for a Supra
So you think the EPA's controlled and scientifically based rating, and my driving experience with the car of over one month is all wrong, but the few days a bunch of random car-and-driver people driving the car to get their mom or rush to their kids soccer games is right... and the true MPG.
Do I have this right....
You know you're a fanboi... Right? I mean it's ok, just admit it. LOL
Do I have this right....
You know you're a fanboi... Right? I mean it's ok, just admit it. LOL
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Nurburgring lap times are a good indicator of the performance potential of a specific car but to base a buying decision solely on that KPI is a tad...well, myopic. Things like aesthetics, reliability, heritage, interior quality, etc, in addition to performance, will all be considered whether consciously or sub-consciously. It's a nice measuring stick to flaunt for marketing collateral and to get enthusiasts excited and motivated to buy.
That said, if the car doesn't meet or exceed the times of a 911, Vette, Viper, 458, R8, GT-R, MP4-12C (jeez, what an awful name for such a good car), the new NSX will likely be considered a failure.
Hearing that Honda engineers are using the 458, MP4-12C, and R8 as some of the cars that they intend to beat is, IMHO, good news. Here's hoping that the present engineering and design teams have as large testes as Uehara and Ito did when designing the original NSX.
Also, Honda better release an R version in the 'States.
That said, if the car doesn't meet or exceed the times of a 911, Vette, Viper, 458, R8, GT-R, MP4-12C (jeez, what an awful name for such a good car), the new NSX will likely be considered a failure.
Hearing that Honda engineers are using the 458, MP4-12C, and R8 as some of the cars that they intend to beat is, IMHO, good news. Here's hoping that the present engineering and design teams have as large testes as Uehara and Ito did when designing the original NSX.
Also, Honda better release an R version in the 'States.
EPA "estimates" if you READ any sticker have a greater range than just the bolds.
Give it up Dave you said the Highlander blows its competition away it doesn't had you driven a Chevy Tahoe hybrid you'd know this. You said the Prius gets way better gas mileage than the Insight. On EPA Stickers it does in real it doesn't. I didn't argue about the Prius quality vs Insight as no contest. Prius is higher line vehicle whereas the Insight was just meant to be a cheap hybrid from day one. Toyota dropped price to compete. Since you have CRS here's the link and oops Prius lost back in 09 at MT as well
http://wot.motortrend.com/toyota-drops-prius-price-to-21750-in-us-to-fight-honda-insight-4632.html
Not a fan boi I just busting your chops for you talking out your a**:wink:
Man up and trade your NSX for a Supra or a LFA.
Back to the discussion.
Here you go bro looks like the race is on:wink:
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...e-sexy-lexus-hybrid-sports-car/1#.UC6vCkZxaTI
Good, I'm curious to see what they come up with.
Perry I'm not going to argue with you. If you think a Tahoe gets better mileage and an insight gets better mileage "in real life" and you think Honda has better hybrid tech than Toyota, that's ok. That's some really rosey colored glasses you're looking through. I subscribe to all the car magazines, I've already read all your links when they came out. I don't agree with you and judging by hybrid sales, neither do the overwhelming majority of buyers.
Anyway let's get back to the NSX.
Anyway let's get back to the NSX.
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Love to try and get that final word don't you:wink: We'll get to see if the ED tech is more competitive with not only Toyota but also Porsche and Ferrari.
What would be interesting to know is if the test NSX's used were hybrid equipped or not as that would mean the hybrid is trackable or were they just track tweaking the V6 and chassis against it's rivals.
Why would you think the NSX's system wouldn't be trackable? I'm fully [foolishly?] expecting the hybrid system to leverage some of Honda's F1 work in this regard?
On an aside, an Australian magazine recently track tested the CR-Z, and battery help was only good for two corners, then nothing!
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