NSX succesor may get AWD in addition to V10

[CJB]

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102981

"TOKYO - Honda Motor Co. is looking at installing its high- performance all- wheel- drive system in the successor to the Acura NSX.

The new car, which will be powered by a V10 engine, is scheduled to arrive about 2008.

"Of course, we're thinking" about combining all-wheel drive with the V10, says Takeo Fukui, Honda's president. "The SH-AWD is Honda's core technology, and using this well is the next step."

The company says SH-AWD - short for Super Handling All-Wheel Drive - is the first awd system to distribute optimum torque between the front and rear wheels and between the left and right rear wheels.

It was first installed on the Acura RL last fall. After its debut, Fukui said Honda would be looking to use it on other high-performance Acuras.

During aggressive driving, as much as 70 percent of the torque is delivered to the rear wheels, the company says.

During a high-speed turn, the differential also sends as much as 100 percent of the rear-wheel torque to either wheel. This improves traction and helps avoid spinouts.

In the United States, Acura sold 10,173 RLs this year through July, up from 3,149 in the same period of last year.

The company has said that the NSX successor won't be front drive, meaning it will be either rear drive or awd. Production of the NSX will stop at year end. The NSX and the S2000 are Honda's only rwd cars"


Nothing really new but this has been speculated wether Honda would apply a new version of the SH-AWD to the NSX replacement. I wonder how much weight it would add though?

RWD or SH-AWD which one do you prefer???

 

[NSXROX]

If they decided to make it an option, I'd definitely pay for the upgrade to the SH-AWD.

 

[Dave Hardy]

If they can do it while keeping the weight under 3000#, then go for it. Otherwise, it's not worth it IMO.

 

[Animate]

Please Honda, do NOT add AWD! For most of us the NSX is a recreation vehicle, not a daily driven appliance. As such they spend most of their time on dry roads. Certainly mine does...and twisty ones at that. For a sports car light weight is crucial and makes them more fun to drive.

Low weight is one way to make the car stand out in the current crop of supercars. Most of them are creeping above 3300 lbs, despite extensive use of composites. Impending safety regulations are imposing enough equipment and features on all cars. Don't make the problem worse with AWD.

 

[NetViper]

I don't see why they could not offer at as an option. The Gallardo certainly handles very well with AWD. If the next NSX had roughly the same specs as a Gallardo, that is nothing to be sad about. Weight does need to be kept down though. No more than 3000lbs. If Chevy can do it with the Z06 can do it, so can Honda.

 

[liftcontrol]

SH-AWD would be a great addition to any car's handling and the NSX is no exception.

Honda would be smart to include it in their next NSX. The minor weight penalty would be insignificant considering the benefits of the superior handling especially if the power increase is considerable. The greatest addition to any sports cars qualities is an improvement in its handling and this will do it very well indeed.

 

[Animate]

If Honda wants to push the supercar envelope AWD will be an unnecessary distraction.

Consider the case with current cars. The Gallardo and Murcialago are very impressive, but they don’t compare well with the best RWD cars like the Ferrari Enzo and Porsche Carrera GT. Porsche uses AWD in their 911 turbo, but their higher performance GT2 version reverts to RWD.

To compare performance have a look at the Top Gear lap times. http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/powerlaps/ . (I suggest this resource with caution since the conditions between tests can change significantly, but think of this as one data point.) The AWD Gallardo and Murci don’t fare as well as the RWD competition.

AWD won’t prevent the new NSX from being impressive, but it will prevent it from being the best.

 

[NetViper]

In Road and Tracks best handling cars ever the Porsche C2 AWD won the contest. The reason according to Mario Andretti was the AWD.

Also, how can you compare Gallardos and Murcies to Enzos and Carerra GTs? Those car are not in the same league.

Evo's and STI's seem to do incredible lap times and both a AWD.

Remember also that acura's AWD system is more advanced than both the porsche and lambo's.

 

[CokerRat]

Shooting against the likes of Lamborghini and Ferrari (which is the obvious target with the V-10 engine), they need more than just a good sports car. For the same reason a V6 doesn't work no matter how much power it makes, I'm afraid AWD will be needed to achieve the proper image. The current NSX sells to people who appreciate lightweight design and performance above all else. Unfortunately, there is a much larger market that considers technology and status more important than simplicity and lightweight construction. To these people, AWD is just as important as an extra 100 hp.

I love my RWD NSX as it is... but going forward into the market it's obviously targetted for, I think AWD is the right decision for Honda.

 

[Zuerst]

Imagine taking the new NSX with AWD on a ski trip.

 

[Animate]

.... Also, how can you compare Gallardos and Murcies to Enzos and Carerra GTs? Those car are not in the same league....

You're right, a very different league. My intent was to point out that when Porsche and Ferrari developed those supercars they chose RWD, and I suspect it wasn't done to save development costs.

CokerRat: You make a good point regarding marketplace image. I fear that may be what's driving this idea. From a sales perspective it MAY be better.

 

[H-carWizKid]

I wonder...

If they are thinking about going AWD- I wonder if they are thinking about a front mounted mid-engine layout, ala S2K

Everyone keeps thinking the direction of a mid-mounted engine behind the seats, but has Honda made an indication that the new car would definetly be in that format?

Of course the motor would be behind the seats... Who could imagine an NSX with an engine up front...

Or wait, do we know if it will be called "NSX"?

Or is it in fact a totally clean sheet car, that will likely have a new moniker?

If it is a clean sheet car, might they be considering several different powertrain orientations?

As per Honda norms, could all this information just be more speculation crowding the media waves?

Hmmm... I guess we will all just have to wait and see, but my money is on a front mount mid-engine car w/ SH-AWD, and dripping with techno-glitz. Look for it to be equipped standard with Navi, a Blue-Tooth enabled DVD stereo w/ XM radio, and ONStar. Something that fits the image of an executive fighter jet.

I don't see another "New Sportscar eXperiment" in the works. Honda has done the "pure sports car" with the S2K, and previous gen NSX.

What barriers would they be breaking?

I see something fast, and technologically cutting edge built to contend with the new Infinity GTR that is waiting in the wings.

for all the haters...

I have no evidence- I have no media references, or trans-pacific flight conversations w/ key Honda executives to cite for my theory (this is in fact only a theory) but based on the moves I have seen in the Acura brand as of late- this is my best guess as to how many jellybeans are in the jar.

After all, we all know With Honda speculation is King- we won't know the truth until they give it to us.

Everything until then is just a guess- Don't believe me? Research this forum a little longer.

We all have a wish list- lets see what we get.

Philip

 

[satan_srv]

If Honda's SH-AWD is that well developed..it should be able to destroy RWD equivalents.

Plus since it's all electronic clutches...I'm sure it would not be hard to offer an FWD -off option..but it's kind of pointless because the system was designed to work in all scenarios...

 

[SolidCitizen]

Honda, please don't do it! If you want to make a luxury GT competing with the M6, fine, make an RL coupe with SH-AWD and V10. But if the new NSX is supposed to continue to be F1-inspired, AWD has no bearing on it! I want to be able to use the throttle to help steer the car. I don't want some heavy, drivetrain-lossy front and center computer-controlled diffs making the car a pig and taking all the fun away.

 

[khappucino]

correct me if i'm wrong but isnt AWD in all scenarios the best all other things being equal

if your total weight is the same, your front/rear bias is the same, your weight center and polar moments are the same, and your power to weight being the same, would not AWD (esp intelligent AWD) always be faster (notice i didnt say more FUN) than RWD. i think the only reason (other than weight and rules obviously) F1 doesnt use AWD is that they generate retarded amounts of downforce and have plenty of rear wheel traction

or am i totally off base with that? just a thought :biggrin:
(khappucino prepares for some burnination in case he's wrong)

 

[SolidCitizen]

Hi. If all those things we're made the same, and given a grippy surface, I don't think AWD has a significant advantage. The intelligent AWD system would probably send all of the power to the rear wheels all the time anyway, unless the driver exceeded the traction limit. If the new NSX has a balance of power and traction like the current car, then it will only break loose under power when the driver messes up or is showboating. I think Honda can achieve this balance without the penalties of AWD.

 

[NsSeX]

Honda, please don't do it! If you want to make a luxury GT competing with the M6, fine, make an RL coupe with SH-AWD and V10. .

http://www.auto-g.jp/news/200506/26/newcar01/index.html
And the translated site:

http://translate.google.com/transla...&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=/language_tools

:biggrin: you might just get that!

If honda does indeed decide to go ahead with the SH-AWD, I hope that they convert it to a rwd platform awd system instead of the fwd platform they currently are using in the RL.

 

[Dave Hardy]

correct me if i'm wrong but isnt AWD in all scenarios the best all other things being equal

if your total weight is the same, your front/rear bias is the same, your weight center and polar moments are the same, and your power to weight being the same, would not AWD (esp intelligent AWD) always be faster (notice i didnt say more FUN) than RWD. i think the only reason (other than weight and rules obviously) F1 doesnt use AWD is that they generate retarded amounts of downforce and have plenty of rear wheel traction

or am i totally off base with that? just a thought :biggrin:
(khappucino prepares for some burnination in case he's wrong)

All things being the same, yes the AWD will be faster. But all things aren't the same. If you've got a 3000# AWD car then that means that you could have had a 2700# RWD car. In that case, I'd rather have the lighter weight RWD.

 

[Juice]

No Honda, don't do it! Don't add SH-AWD, or V-TEC, or stereo, or air conditioning, or electronically reclining seats, or a trunk to store overnight bags, or a spare tire.

Yes, just sell us a race car with no technical improvement because 1% of your clients will be using this as an exclusive track car? Man, your crack pipe is extra hot today! The Honda team is all about changing the rules and if you desire is to see something that is done on every other car out there already, why are you even waiting for the next NSX? Go get yourself a Z06 or a Viper, or just keep using the NSX you already have. But it doesn't matter to me; I have faith that Honda will more than likely do the right thing for both every day drive ability and track ability!

 

[CJB]

Im not sure on this but for now I would vote to keep it RWD.

 

[SolidCitizen]

I was pretty specific about omitting the heavy, numbing AWD system. That is something that has already been done by Lambo, Porsche, Nissan, etc. How you extrapolate from that to mean omitting all amenities and technology sounds like some issues of your own.

My NSX gets me to work, etc., everyday, and I hope the new one is as comfortable and reliable.

No Honda, don't do it! Don't add SH-AWD, or V-TEC, or stereo, or air conditioning, or electronically reclining seats, or a trunk to store overnight bags, or a spare tire.

Yes, just sell us a race car with no technical improvement because 1% of your clients will be using this as an exclusive track car? Man, your crack pipe is extra hot today! The Honda team is all about changing the rules and if you desire is to see something that is done on every other car out there already, why are you even waiting for the next NSX? Go get yourself a Z06 or a Viper, or just keep using the NSX you already have. But it doesn't matter to me; I have faith that Honda will more than likely do the right thing for both every day drive ability and track ability!

 

[Dave Hardy]

Light weight isn't just a track feature. It helps the car's handling, braking, acceleration, etc. in daily driving as well. It is just so much more enjoyable to toss a lightweight around. My daily driver is 2200# and I love it.

 

[khappucino]

ok quick question, why are AWD cars banned from many of the Automotive Racing circles, i seem to have recalled that some of it was due to the advantage it gave and the general dislike of RWD purists?

if i'm wrong about this then please someone correct me, it just seems that
(ignoring the FUN factor), with AWD you have the flexibility to have all scenario's covered, :biggrin:

 

[liftcontrol]

If you think you cannot have fun in a AWD car you must not have

heard of the Mitsu EVO. It is arguably one of the most driver oriented and fun cars you can buy irrespective of the price. That it handles at a Supercar level is a known and acknowledged fact.

 

[H-carWizKid]

Whatever they build- I hope it expresses the performance minded engineering in a way that is reminiscent of the original project that spawned the cars we know today.

Whatever we get- I am sure that it will be a very dynamic auto, but I think it is obtuse at this point to assume anything about an upcoming car that Honda hasn't stated outright-

A V-10 SH-AWD Front engine GT packed with gadgets?- That is just MY wishlist- nothing more.
Then again- I always loved the R34 Skyline GT-R, and I have ALWAYS loved the front mounted mid-engine 550 Maranello.
Those cars are sharp- In my minds eye I see a cross between those two...

Then I wake up and realize no sense getting all uptight about it- Obviously Honda hasn't been listening for the past several years, it is pretty hard to believe they would start listening now. We will get whatever THEY want us to get.

In the meantime, I am going to keep on enjoying the current car.

Speculation sucks.

Philip