NSX replacement Delayed

[NetViper]

According the Jan 16th issue of Autonews.

"Don't expect the replacement for the Acura NSX sports car before 2009."

Honda plans to introduce the Acura brand in Japan in the autumn of 2008. But the new NSX won't be part of the lineup. says Motoatsu Shiraishi, president of Honda R&D Co.

Says Shiraishi. "We don't think the NSX will be ready in time."


:frown:

Personally I think it is silly to introduce Acura in Japan without the new NSX.

 

[nicholas421]

"Don't expect the replacement for the Acura NSX sports car before 2009."

By the time they introduce the V10, every other new car might be on Hydrogen power.

Personally I think it is stilly to introduce Acura in Japan without the new NSX.

Personally I think it's silly for Honda executives to be boasting about a car that won't exist for another 5 years.

 

[BioBanker]

The whole thing is rediculus.

It is clearly a very low priority for Honda.

Bet the successor to the F430 is out before the new NSX. That is a sad sad sad statement that 3 generations of Fcars can come out between the time the new NSX was supose to premier to the time it actually does, if it ever does

 

[Spinner]

The whole thing is rediculus.

It is clearly a very low priority for Honda.

Bet the successor to the F430 is out before the new NSX. That is a sad sad sad statement that 3 generations of Fcars can come out between the time the new NSX was supose to premier to the time it actually does, if it ever does

well the difference is that Ferrari's income is based off of producing high performance supercars....not econoboxes with a supercar every now and then...

 

[BD]

The whole thing is rediculus.

It is clearly a very low priority for Honda.

Bet the successor to the F430 is out before the new NSX. That is a sad sad sad statement that 3 generations of Fcars can come out between the time the new NSX was supose to premier to the time it actually does, if it ever does

Why is it rediculous? Honda CEO annouced "We are working on a NSX replacement with a giant V10 engine, the car will be ready in 3 to 4 years." Therefore, 2009 is correct according his speach back in July of 05.

I raqther think that it will be smarter move because they will know what what the F430 replacement is going to be like, and make a logical decision on how the NSX replacement should be.

 

[BioBanker]

Why is it rediculous? Honda CEO annouced "We are working on a NSX replacement with a giant V10 engine, the car will be ready in 3 to 4 years." Therefore, 2009 is correct according his speach back in July of 05.

I raqther think that it will be smarter move because they will know what what the F430 replacement is going to be like, and make a logical decision on how the NSX replacement should be.

Youre suggesting that theyve only recently started work on this. I can dig up articles that say that the car was "almost complete" and would be introduced "shortly" from 7 years ago.

The benchmark is a moving target and that if youre trying to time things against competition that has proven time and time again to be faster at putting out more competitive cars, and as a result, I bet that Honda is going to look dumb. They're already looking dumb in fact.They need to progress with R&D as rapidly as they can and launch the car. All this himming and hawwing and sitting on their hands, probably over R&Ding the car (if it even exists), has a high liklihood of making them miss their mark. Technologies are evolving too fast these days.

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

How old this has gotten, to hear the back and forth BS about what might be or could be.............. Fact of the matter is the NSX exists now, and the reality is that if and when the higher ups at Honda ever do decide to build another "NSX like" model, the majority on people on here will not be able to afford it.


Armando

 

[Tony Montoya]

Maybe Honda made a mistake cancelling the NSX. They could have continued making it for another 10 years. It's not as fast as a Z06 but it is a better car.

 

[Spinner]

Maybe Honda made a mistake cancelling the NSX. They could have continued making it for another 10 years. It's not as fast as a Z06 but it is a better car.

IMO I think they should have cancelled it in '99. :frown: I think the NSX is a cooler car, but I personaly wouldn't call it better than the Z06.

 

[White92]

IMO I think they should have cancelled it in '99. :frown: I think the NSX is a cooler car, but I personaly wouldn't call it better than the Z06.

Better made maybe? I'd go with that.:smile:

 

[BD]

IMO I think they should have cancelled it in '99. :frown: I think the NSX is a cooler car, but I personaly wouldn't call it better than the Z06.

Well, the only Z06 I can think of that is better than the NSX in terms of performance as a over all package is the 2006 Z06. Honda killed the NSX in 05. They did the right thing, 15 years production.

 

[TC]

The benchmark is a moving target and that if youre trying to time things against competition that has proven time and time again to be faster at putting out more competitive cars... Technologies are evolving too fast these days.

Right on - using Vance's logic (finalize the design of the new NSX when design of the F430 successor is known) Honda will always be 2-3 years behind Ferrari.

That said, the F430 successor is rumored to have a V10:

Autoweek Published 11/21/05 - Ferrari working on V10

Word out of Maranello suggests a new V10 engine may power the successor to Ferrari’s F430, amid concern over the marketing advantage enjoyed by archrival Lamborghini’s 5.0-liter V10-powered Gallardo (see related item below).

AutoWeek sources say Ferrari is developing a 5.4-liter V10 based around the 90-degree architecture of the F430’s four-valve-per-cylinder 4.3-liter V8

In 2009, a V10 will be nothing special - Audi, BMW, Viper, Lambo - currently have products (or announced products in the case of Audi) with V10's making 500 HP. Had the 2002 NSX had a V10 with 400+ HP (instead of cosmetic tweaks), that would have been new and cutting edge.

 

[Spinner]

lol...I think we'll see a time machine developed by Honda before a next generation NSX.:biggrin: That way they can just jump to the future, and jump back with whatever motor will make it beat an entry level ferrari. :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

[nuccaJB]

How old this has gotten, to hear the back and forth BS about what might be or could be.............. Fact of the matter is the NSX exists now, and the reality is that if and when the higher ups at Honda ever do decide to build another "NSX like" model, the majority on people on here will not be able to afford it.


Armando

^^^^^ What he said.

 

[BD]

Right on - using Vance's logic (finalize the design of the new NSX when design of the F430 successor is known) Honda will always be 2-3 years behind Ferrari.

That said, the F430 successor is rumored to have a V10:



In 2009, a V10 will be nothing special - Audi, BMW, Viper, Lambo - currently have products (or announced products in the case of Audi) with V10's making 500 HP. Had the 2002 NSX had a V10 with 400+ HP (instead of cosmetic tweaks), that would have been new and cutting edge.

I agree, V10 will not be special in 2009, and it's already not special. The only thing that comes to my mind for Honda to choose V10 configuration is probably because they can produce V12 power but with better chassis balance (lower weight, better distribution). In term of HP, 500 will not be enough, either way; it will probably be under power in matter of a year or so. But here is the biggest question, would you stop buying Honda product? The key part of this new car will definitely be Value. I have no doubt that F430 replacement will have 550 plus hp, but I'm sure the market demanded price will be close to $300k. If Honda can achieve all that for less than $150k, it should survive the competition (Ford GT had that approach and the car sold very well).

Again, it's all speculation at this point; However, you cannot deny the fact that there is a good reason most of us on the forum still driving a car that is basically 15 years old, and still rave about it. In common eyes, the NSX does not have the heritage of a Ferrari, and most of us don't realize Honda's accomplishment in F1, as well as who Ayrton Senna is, but even without knowing those fact, we all know this underpowered car is still one of the greatest car ever built. History don't judge a car base on how fast it can go, but what impact it had in the industry, of course cars such as F40/50, Enzo, F1, etc left a eternal mark in the book, so have the NSX. Many will argue that without NSX and those second generation Honda F1 engineers, company such as Ferrari will probably still designing hard to drive, hard to live with cars. Don't forget, Ferrari solicited quit a few Honda engineers to its R & D after Honda's withdraw from F1 in 1992, and all of the sudden, F355 had more than significant improvement in Engine power and drive-ability.

So here is the question, will you buy the NSX replacement even if the car doesn't stand out when comparing to entry level Ferrari and Lambo? I would, just because it's a Honda. If the history repeats it self, like always, this car will be a special car.

 

[MegaZap]

RE all the discussions about whether or not the NSX is better than a Z06... I have an associate at work who is a Vette freak and ex-racer. He got on me a lot about buying a rice burner, etc for the past year. Recently he said he would tell me the truth - that he thought the NSX was one of the finest cars ever made. The Vette he drives is an 04 with memory, and sometimes as he's driving along the seat suddenly decides to move all the way forward, pinning him against the steering wheel. When he takes it in GM has told him this is new technology, that they're sorting out the bugs, so "be patient." After 5 years of producing this type of thing in a Corvette they're still sorting out the problems?
I also have inside info that the Z06 dry sump is a problem. No doubt that will come out in public soon. Point is that Corvettes are full of flaws and deficiencies, and as usual are rushed into production. I myself had a brand new 99 with five flavors of red on it that GM bought back from me because of bad primer or paint or ??? Who knows what caused that? The car I had should never have left the factory.
IMHO - there is no compare between the quality of the NSX and that of any GM produced car PERIOD. They still have a long way to go to match NSX quality. Putting a big motor in it doesn't make up for poor quality control.

I had a friend in 1965 who bought a brand new 396 powered Vette. It spent more time in the shop than in his garage, so I guess there has been progress!

Zap

 

[TC]

If Honda can achieve all that for less than $150k, it should survive the competition (Ford GT had that approach and the car sold very well).

Going with the Ford GT train of thought, do you think that the next NSX should be a limited production run? I believe that 2007 is the last model year for the Ford GT - 3-year run from 2005-07 with about 1,500 cars each year. When the GT goes out of production it will still be on-par with its contemporaries - F430, Gallardo, GT2, etc.

If Honda is going to design a new sports car once every 20 years, it should be a limited production run.

 

[|Adeel]

Going with the Ford GT train of thought, do you think that the next NSX should be a limited production run? I believe that 2007 is the last model year for the Ford GT - 3-year run from 2005-07 with about 1,500 cars each year. When the GT goes out of production it will still be on-par with its contemporaries - F430, Gallardo, GT2, etc.

If Honda is going to design a new sports car once every 20 years, it should be a limited production run.

Making it limited production will make it much harder for most people to afford one.

 

[White98LS]

I have no doubt that F430 replacement will have 550 plus hp, but I'm sure the market demanded price will be close to $300k.

You sure about that? They just added almost 100hp with the F430. I doubt they will have another power increase of that scale in that little time. Yes the Gallardo has more, but it also weighs a lot more - the F430 is faster and that's what counts. 550+hp would put the power above the 612's current output, and I don't see that happening.

The 360 only had 20hp more than the F355, and the 360 was around for, what, another 6 years or so?

 

[BD]

You sure about that? They just added almost 100hp with the F430. I doubt they will have another power increase of that scale in that little time. Yes the Gallardo has more, but it also weighs a lot more - the F430 is faster and that's what counts. 550+hp would put the power above the 612's current output, and I don't see that happening.

The 360 only had 20hp more than the F355, and the 360 was around for, what, another 6 years or so?

The power increase:
348 to F355 - 80 hp
F355 to 360 - 20
360 to F430 - 83

If Ferrari replace the F430 with a car that features a V10, most likely 5 liters or larger, a simple math should explain my reasoning.

112hp/liter x 5 liters = 561 hp.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprise if Ferrari achieves 120 hp/liter, since Honda has done it on the S2000, it will only be matter of time before Ferrari figure out how to achieve that. Therefore, if that is the case, a 5-liter V10 can push out 600hp.

Of course it's all a speculation, but in the current HP war, a 500hp engine is not longer unique. I agree with you on how F430 is better than the Gallardo in every way as a package, even with less HP; therefore, you have also answered many criticisms about how underpowered the NSX is.

As for my remarks on F430 replacement over $300k, it is strictly based on the market demanded price vs. MSRP. For example:
Ford GT MSRP: $150k / Market going rate: up to $220k
Ferrari F430 Spider F1: $210k / Market going rate: Up to $300k

Since F430 has bloomed massively in price over the old 348, many auto magazine is speculating on another entry level Ferrari that will be priced much less than the F430 or its replacement.

Than again, I could be wrong, since I made an argument about how much a 05 NSX is going for, many stated $75k is an achievable price, which much lowered than what I can find locally.

Therefore, what Honda is going to do with this up coming car is really still a myth, only time will tell when they introduce it to the public. I would like to believe the car will be another masterpiece, instead just a 911TT fighter.

 

[TC]

Making it limited production will make it much harder for most people to afford one.

True, but making it affordable (realitively speaking) isn't really a concern for exotic cars. There is supposed to be an aire of exclusivity and unobtainability with exotic cars. From a financial viewpoint, limited production (of the new NSX) might make it a break-even or profitabilty endeavor for Honda. Since 1996 or so, Honda made about 400 NSX's per year. You can't have a whole factor running to make less than 2 cars per day, especially if you're selling those cars for about $70k each. Had the NSX not been such a financial hit for Honda (estimated loss by the automotive press of $800 million) I'm sure that we would have had a new model a decade ago.

 

[Scin]

The power increase:
348 to F355 - 80 hp
F355 to 360 - 20
360 to F430 - 83

If Ferrari replace the F430 with a car that features a V10, most likely 5 liters or larger, a simple math should explain my reasoning.

112hp/liter x 5 liters = 561 hp.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprise if Ferrari achieves 120 hp/liter, since Honda has done it on the S2000, it will only be matter of time before Ferrari figure out how to achieve that. Therefore, if that is the case, a 5-liter V10 can push out 600hp.

Of course it's all a speculation, but in the current HP war, a 500hp engine is not longer unique. I agree with you on how F430 is better than the Gallardo in every way as a package, even with less HP; therefore, you have also answered many criticisms about how underpowered the NSX is.

As for my remarks on F430 replacement over $300k, it is strictly based on the market demanded price vs. MSRP. For example:
Ford GT MSRP: $150k / Market going rate: up to $220k
Ferrari F430 Spider F1: $210k / Market going rate: Up to $300k

Since F430 has bloomed massively in price over the old 348, many auto magazine is speculating on another entry level Ferrari that will be priced much less than the F430 or its replacement.

Than again, I could be wrong, since I made an argument about how much a 05 NSX is going for, many stated $75k is an achievable price, which much lowered than what I can find locally.

Therefore, what Honda is going to do with this up coming car is really still a myth, only time will tell when they introduce it to the public. I would like to believe the car will be another masterpiece, instead just a 911TT fighter.

Ferrari can achieve 120 hp/liter, they do it regulary. The problem is doing it with pump gas and making the car reliable. This is also where Ferrari has an advantage, as a reliable Ferrari is probably less reliable then an unreliable Honda. Honda expectations require a super car than can go 200k miles with little more then normal maintenance.

 

[timothyaw]

I don't mind Honda taking their time bringing out there next super exotic car. As a poster mentioned earlier, rushing cars to production is not the answer. I expect Honda to take their time to bring out a engineering miracle, great quality, and reliability. Take all the time you need honda!

 

[austrian type-R]

I hate that comments like " a V10 will be nothing special" ......wtf....do you want a V36 to be special? Hence, I rather would have a nice high reving, short stroke V8 than a heavy ass V12.

 

[BD]

True, but making it affordable (realitively speaking) isn't really a concern for exotic cars. There is supposed to be an aire of exclusivity and unobtainability with exotic cars. From a financial viewpoint, limited production (of the new NSX) might make it a break-even or profitabilty endeavor for Honda. Since 1996 or so, Honda made about 400 NSX's per year. You can't have a whole factor running to make less than 2 cars per day, especially if you're selling those cars for about $70k each. Had the NSX not been such a financial hit for Honda (estimated loss by the automotive press of $800 million) I'm sure that we would have had a new model a decade ago.

I think th eindustry should define the word "Exotic" and "Super."
I view exotic as a car that is in a very limited production, high in price, and difficult to obtain, cars such as Ferrari F40/F50/Enzo,Porsche Carerra GT, SLR Vision, Veyron, Ford GT, etc.

Super cars are the cars that can achieve extrodinary performance but obtain-able: NSX, P 911 (Variations), Corvette, Elise, etc.

Ayrton Senna has always said, the NSX is a "Super" car, a car that every one can drive with ease. I can say that, cars such as NSX, 911, Corvette are on the reliable side, and anyone can walk into a dealer and pick one up almost at any given time, or with very little waiting period.

Make sense?