NSX-R vs. 911 GT3

NSXTASY_MD said:
They're more impressive than just the sum of their numbers....for example, someone might falsely think a Z06 is more impressive than a GT3 becuase it has a little more power at roughly the same weight...this is an ignorant and superficial analysis* (to say the least). A lot of people just don't understand all the other fundamentals that go into a sports (or race)car being fast and impressive on a track.
The GT3 has many years of refined suspension design, re-calibration, production methods, etc...built into it from direct racing knowledge on the track...this is NOT true for vettes. (And NO, your street vettes share nothing with the ones on the american le-mans series, LOL....whereas the 911 GT3-R's DO with the street GT3)


...sorry I didn't see this post earlier but I don't visit the forum ever hour of every day, lol.

...your "analogies" are ridiculous (comparing a VETTE to a 360 modena and 911 Turbo)(the members of this forum already saw through that immediately)

...your personal attacks are unwarranted...

...your overall tone and offensively argumentative state clearly displays an emotionally unstable persona, considering we're all enthusiasts and my comments where only to point out how superb the GT3 is. (i.e. you sound like a angry red-neck LOL)

...your attention to the OBVIOUS is clouded by your extreme bias. You OWN a vette(...which is VERY fitting to the YOUR persona....the cars hallmarks are being CRUDE & brute, just like your arguments and tone respectively) (ps: i don't own a porsche nor was I every an active PCA member) ...Rear-engine 911's have been DOMINATING ANY and EVERY form of sportcar racing since the early **70'S** Porsche is the MOST race-winning auto manufacturor in history and that success is mostly due to the rear-engine 911's. Which also goes to completely unmerit your ridiculous "first year engineering student" argument as to how poor of a configurantion the 911's is.:rolleyes:

"Bulldozer" (is that what you operate for a living, lol?)....At first I thought you had valid motives behind how bias and argumentative your ininsightful, illogical and offensively arguamentative statements/comments were. Now I see that your just an ignorant "red-neck." An internet troll that has FAR too much time on his hands...get a life. Someone who HAS to counter ANY and EVERY statement that doesn't support his own views...and do it by peltering the other person with a barrage of ridiculous analogies, unwarranted attacks, bias facts and the disregard of the obvious. It's beneath me to even respond to your ridiculous counters with offensive one's of my own (as this)...but I wanted to school you as to why myself (and a few others) will no longer respond to anything you have to write*:o


PS: Have the last word...:rolleyes:

"...your "analogies" are ridiculous (comparing a VETTE to a 360 modena and 911 Turbo)(the members of this forum already saw through that immediately)" - Although I do agree that the 360 is a faster track car than a Z06 don't think that the 911 Turbo can just dispatch the Z06 on the track. The performance capabilities of the cars are extremely close.

Also, if the rear engined configuration is so superior, as demonstrated by Porsche's racing success through the ages, why would Porsche make the Carrera GT as a midengined car? Wow, they even commit the travesty of naming it a Carrera. Surely the performance benefits of the rear engined design format would make the choice clear.

More information for those who care, John Heinricy(sp?) drove the 04 Z06 to the time of 7:56 on Nurburgring (unknown track configuration). Coincidentally that is much faster than the current 360 Modena, the real question is WHY?
 
Zuerst said:
An NSX one second faster than a S2000 around the track? Who was driving it???

Horst Von Saurma, German magazine editor, of Sport Auto Magazine.

http://www.bmwdeler.no/nordschleife.html
http://www.nurburgring.de/?rubrik=rekorde&lang=eng



Is he a pro race car driver? Maybe our German forum members can give us some insights to this guy's career outside writing/reviewing sports cars (I believe he also flys airplanes on the side as a hobby). He seemed very fast in modded German cars, but ridiculously slow in Japanese cars? :rolleyes:

hmmm.....makes me wonder......
 
One more....

http://www.planet-walter.de/rekorde.htm

Porsche Boxster S is FASTER (8 min. 32 sec. what gives?!) than the Lotus Exige (8 min 42 sec.)??? Both cars driven by Mr/ Von Saurma!

So all German cars he drove are faster than non-german cars, even when the non-domestic german car is universally known to be a faster track car than the domestic gerrman car compared......

Something's wrong with this picture!

I'm losing faith in Von Saurma's credibility!
 
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Just so you guys know, `Bulldozer` also owns a NSX and a M3, along with the ZO6.
 
A recent Best Motoring issue actually had the GT3 and the NSX-R on the same track at the same time and the NSX-R actually out corners the GT3 but loses in a straight line.
 
s2ktaxi said:
the NSX-R actually out corners the GT3 but loses in a straight line. [/B]

No kidding! I hate to beat a guy at lots of stuff and then lose on the straight-away. However, I won't fell bad about this one bit, because the NSX will beat a regular NA Porsche anytime.
 
NSX/MR2 said:
No kidding! I hate to beat a guy at lots of stuff and then lose on the straight-away. However, I won't fell bad about this one bit, because the NSX will beat a regular NA Porsche anytime.

The GT3 is a NA Porsche... 380HP..

The NSX-R is not a normal NSX by any means.


This is just another example of how BAD the NSX needs more HP. What good is it to be faster in the turns but lose EVERY straight...

Now, just think of the NSX-R with 380HP. Now it will win the turns and hold the straights.. and will be a faster car.

If porsche can make a 380HP NA V6, I cannot see a reason why HONDA cannot.
 
NetViper said:
The GT3 is a NA Porsche... 380HP..

The NSX-R is not a normal NSX by any means.
The GT3 is not a "regular NA Porsche", to which you were replying. The "regular NA Porsche" is the engine they put in all the other normally aspirated 911 models, with 315 hp (I think).

Just like "the NSX-R is not a normal NSX by any means", the GT3 is not the "regular NA Porsche" by any means either. ;)

However, I think the GT3 makes a nice target for the next NSX. To exceed. :D
 
The 315hp Porsche -- I dealt my hand to them 4 times already in my lighten and barely modified 92 NSX. Those Porsches ain't nothing to me.

The NSX-R doesn't come with any extra hp like the Porsche GT3, just better suspension, grippier tires and lighter than the regular NSX.
 
It was my understanding that the NSX-R did indeed come with slightly more hp from a factory port and polish and blueprinted engine. It is also lighter thus improving it's power to weight ration compared with a standard NSX.

I've passed my share of P-cars (not that I'm being competitive or anything). But have also had my fair share of difficulty with them as well. In the hands of an experienced Porsche driver, those cars can be difficult to pass much less keep up with.
 
Ponyboy said:
It was my understanding that the NSX-R did indeed come with slightly more hp from a factory port and polish and blueprinted engine. It is also lighter thus improving it's power to weight ration compared with a standard NSX.

I've passed my share of P-cars (not that I'm being competitive or anything). But have also had my fair share of difficulty with them as well. In the hands of an experienced Porsche driver, those cars can be difficult to pass much less keep up with.

The reason why I lighten my car (92 NSX,) throw in an exhaust, intake, and I am done.
 
How much lighter are you talking about? Over or under 200lbs weight reduction?
 
Definitely under 200lbs.

Just do the math: a new Corvette with 350hp, and a new M3 with 333hp cannot beat a new NSX acceleration-wise, what makes you think a 315hp Porsche will? Don't believe me, check out Motor Trend, Track and Cars and Drivers.
 
2003 NSX weighs in at 3150 lbs w/ 290hp
2003 911 weighs in at 3000 lbs w/315hp

I dont think you really have to do any math there. Mind you I would be hard pressed to trade in my 1994 NSX for a 996, in Miami I see more 360's (never mind Porsches) than I do NSX's.
 
NSX/MR2 said:
Just do the math: a new Corvette with 350hp, and a new M3 with 333hp cannot beat a new NSX acceleration-wise, what makes you think a 315hp Porsche will? Don't believe me, check out Motor Trend, Track and Cars and Drivers.
Published acceleration test figures for all four of those cars, including the NSX, are usually roughly equal to each other - typically all in the range of 4.8-4.9 for 0-60 and 13.2-13.4 in the 1/4 mile.
 
...Mr. Payne and a few others....several things to consider about the Nurburgring...It's a LONG lap with MANY turns on a super tricky race curcuit in a very temperal climate location in germany* (i.e. a lap on THAT circuit in car "X" wouldn't neccassarily be equivelent to a lap on that curcuit in the SAME car with a different driver...and even if the driver is the same WITH the exact same car, several degrees of track and/or ambient air temprature differences can greatly alter the resultant lap times on such a long measure timed event.)

Hans Stuck, arguably one of the greatest sportscar drivers out of germany, who incidentally is one of the winnest 911 drivers out of germany who was deamed "the nurburgring king" in an older "un sport" german auto/racing publication.....stated that "no two laps on the ring are ever the same, even in the same car with the same driver."

...well, though that may be true...obviously the differences/error are much smaller if the same car and driver were used...but thats only if the CONDITIONS were also a "constant." (Which could be achieved by running the cars on the same track the same day) Unfortunately when they post these so-called "nurburgring lap times" we know very little (in most cases nothing) about either the conditions OR drivers being used...setting ourselves up for quite an error in comparisions...particularly between two cars who's lap times don't differ a great deal to begin with*

(which can explain a lot of the disparities we see between cars which "should" be a lot quicker being approached by lesser cars on that track...i.e. the s2000/nsx comparo someone was mentioning...among others:rolleyes: )
 
nsxtasy said:
The GT3 is not a "regular NA Porsche", to which you were replying. The "regular NA Porsche" is the engine they put in all the other normally aspirated 911 models, with 315 hp (I think).

Just like "the NSX-R is not a normal NSX by any means", the GT3 is not the "regular NA Porsche" by any means either. ;)


The GT3 is probably the most directly comparable porsche to the NSX-R. So I think any comparison between the two is valid. They are both race/road versions of a NSX/911.

Looking at performance:

NSX-R roughly 4.4 to 60 and 12.8 in the 1/4 .. not sure MPH?? 110?

GT3 is 4.0 and 12.2 @ 118. That thing is FAST.


Just imagine the NSX-R with a SC. Does anyone know if this has been done? It would be amazing.
 
NetViper said:
The GT3 is probably the most directly comparable porsche to the NSX-R. So I think any comparison between the two is valid. They are both race/road versions of a NSX/911.
I agree.

NetViper said:
Looking at performance:

NSX-R roughly 4.4 to 60 and 12.8 in the 1/4 .. not sure MPH?? 110?

GT3 is 4.0 and 12.2 @ 118.
There aren't a lot of published test reports on these two models - the NSX-R because it's not available here, and the GT3 because it's a new model. So at this time it's more a matter of speculation than being able to point to various issues of the major car magazines. Those figures you quote sound about right to me for the NSX-R, but rather optimistic on the GT3 since that's about what the 996 Turbo (non-GT2) typically posts, and it has more hp than the GT3.

EDIT: The 3/24/03 AutoWeek says that "The turbo-free GT3 gets to 60 mph in just less than 4.5 seconds".
 
Just wanted to add some general comments re: the rear engine layout pro's cons'... Porsche builds cars with the engine behind the rear axle for a reason.

Pro's: more weight over drive wheels for acceleration AND more weight over rear wheels when braking to balance braking forces across the 4 tires

Con's: As Bulldozer mentioned, a higher polar moment of inertia and if the back end lets go (as can be the case with ~450hp RWD cars), it will be more difficult to catch.
 
CokerRat said:


Con's: As Bulldozer mentioned, a higher polar moment of inertia and if the back end lets go (as can be the case with ~450hp RWD cars), it will be more difficult to catch.

Actually a MR configuration reduces the polar moment of inertia, which is a good thing in a vehicle that is expected to be highly maneuverable in turns.

Edit (Sorry, missed that you were referring to rear engine, not MR)
 
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NSXTASY_MD said:
...Mr. Payne and a few others....several things to consider about the Nurburgring...It's a LONG lap with MANY turns on a super tricky race curcuit in a very temperal climate location in germany* (i.e. a lap on THAT circuit in car "X" wouldn't neccassarily be equivelent to a lap on that curcuit in the SAME car with a different driver...and even if the driver is the same WITH the exact same car, several degrees of track and/or ambient air temprature differences can greatly alter the resultant lap times on such a long measure timed event.)

Hans Stuck, arguably one of the greatest sportscar drivers out of germany, who incidentally is one of the winnest 911 drivers out of germany who was deamed "the nurburgring king" in an older "un sport" german auto/racing publication.....stated that "no two laps on the ring are ever the same, even in the same car with the same driver."

...well, though that may be true...obviously the differences/error are much smaller if the same car and driver were used...but thats only if the CONDITIONS were also a "constant." (Which could be achieved by running the cars on the same track the same day) Unfortunately when they post these so-called "nurburgring lap times" we know very little (in most cases nothing) about either the conditions OR drivers being used...setting ourselves up for quite an error in comparisions...particularly between two cars who's lap times don't differ a great deal to begin with*

(which can explain a lot of the disparities we see between cars which "should" be a lot quicker being approached by lesser cars on that track...i.e. the s2000/nsx comparo someone was mentioning...among others:rolleyes: )

I know all of that. That's why I don't make judgements on cars based on Nurburgring lap times. It only shows competitive groups of cars, not which car is best out of several. I'm starting to think that 360 Modena time(8:09) is somewhat bogus(really bad testing conditions....), considering that a 550 Maranello beat it with a 8:07.
 
dlongo said:
Actually a MR configuration reduces the polar moment of inertia, which is a good thing in a vehicle that is expected to be highly maneuverable in turns. I do not mean to pick on you, but there is a lot of erroneous information on vehicle dynamics posted on web forums, including this thread.

However, the 911 doesn't use an MR layout. It's a rear-engined rear wheel driven car, thus having a higher polar moment of inertia.
 
Ponyboy said:
However, the 911 doesn't use an MR layout. It's a rear-engined rear wheel driven car, thus having a higher polar moment of inertia.

Doh! :(
Sorry, wasn't thinking.

(Me no read guud)
 
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