NSX NC1 - Track Review Laguna Seca - Randy Pobst

How is a $156K car suddenly $200K now? The 50K in options are negligible IMO.

The NSX is the ~same weight as the GTR with technically less peak horsepower and was still faster than the mechanical 4WD around the track. That shows that the new SH-AWD is in fact better better or more efficient. That's what you have gauge upon as they are closest in hp/weight ratio.

The Carrera S is nearly 700 lbs lighter than the NSX. It's basically a weaker powered 570S.

Clearly the largest factor is still the substantial hp/weight ratio difference. Either increase the ICE output Honda or shave off some more weight somehow. The million dollar 918 weighs the same basically, but has a stronger V8 so it obviously not that easy to keep a hybrid AWD car's weight low. I really don't see how larger turbines would hurt the new NSX.
 
Well, the video was nice and the driver seemed to like the car.
I am not sure about this 'only braking in a straight line because of the oversteer' thing, I thought the new NSX could/would trail-brake better than the old one.

However, all things put together, if the new NSX is NOT any faster than a comparable Audi R8 V10+, 911 TT or 570S or even gets 'beaten' around the track, then, simply put, IT DOES NOT LIVE UP TO THE EXPECTATIONS!!

And it should...
With the new SH-AWD system, the front TMU, all the electronics, I am sure the car will feel wonderful on the road.
But it is a simple fact that cars like these get rated based on their track-performance. Why else would anybody be interested in Nurburgring laptimes, even though we all know that we ourselves could not duplicate those laptimes even if we tried ten times over.

IMHO, the new NSX should EASILY keep up with the current crop of highend supercars like the ones mentioned above.
THAT is what the new technology more or less 'promised'. I can understand that it takes time to get things right, but Honda has been working on this car for over a decade.
I feel a bit let down so to speak...
 
that's not a lie. i have met a lot of people on the street who aren't the slightest bit enamored with the new NSX...

Isn't it great we are not all the same. Some are always going to be glass half-empty, some glass half-full. I've been around long enough to know which camp people sit in. The NSX looses no appeal based on what I've read and heard in the majority reviews. For me it remains a totally desirable choice because of all it represents, in technical execution, quality and performance (glass half-full). For the money I'm going to spend to purchase one, if later I want to add some extra smile to my dial, then I'll indulge in a Hennessy tuner kit or similar - gotta be cheaper than loosing a whack in depreciation to chase the latest rainbow. Who knows, maybe even KTuner or Hondata will come on board. Hell I intend to enjoy it to the max for the good while I own one.
 
What I find perhaps most incongruous is that the main benefit of the NSX's technology, torque vectoring, provides an uncertain benefit when all systems are switched off as all the testers prefer. What vectoring occurs when stability control is off?

Other than that, the hybrid systems provide torque fill and AWD, but neither is a game changer.
 
How is a $156K car suddenly $200K now? The 50K in options are negligible IMO.

Add or subtract whatever you want from this window sticker..........BTW aren't the $10.6K brakes the only choice in the launch vehicles?

27652721503_9e338656a6_z_zpsmwqeazrh.jpg~original
 
It seems like there is a good question about whether all the technology helps the NSX. With that acknowledged, I wonder what Randy's times would have been in track mode (all stability systems on)? It seems like you are limiting the ability of the technology to help if you turn a majority of it off. His complaints didn't mirror what we have read from other drivers including many from R&T.

Finally, the point of the original was to expand the envelope for average Joe. It seems like that will be the long term litmus test for this car as well.
 
That is why my cross car review would be with a single shlub driver

i don't care what Kyle Bush can do with the car because he won't be driving me around Chicago

i want to see what shlub does with the NSX, R8, 570S, 911 Turbo or Turbo S and if possible 488 and Huracan

as I mention from playbook 4, we will see a bunch of tests through the winter
 
Add or subtract whatever you want from this window sticker..........BTW aren't the $10.6K brakes the only choice in the launch vehicles?

27652721503_9e338656a6_z_zpsmwqeazrh.jpg~original

Gotta-be-First buyers will pay the premium, but once things get settled, how many people have already expressed interest in conventional brakes?

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Well, the video was nice and the driver seemed to like the car.
I am not sure about this 'only braking in a straight line because of the oversteer' thing, I thought the new NSX could/would trail-brake better than the old one.

However, all things put together, if the new NSX is NOT any faster than a comparable Audi R8 V10+, 911 TT or 570S or even gets 'beaten' around the track, then, simply put, IT DOES NOT LIVE UP TO THE EXPECTATIONS!!

Not everyone has or had the same expectations. Not everyone needs a ~500 hp car to blow those aforementioned cars with pedigrees that have been refined for the 10+ years. Not everyone needs the fastest track car out there. Again, the first NSX did none of these things the best with it's mere 270 hp or so but yet there are so many fans up here. The first gen's styling was even unappreciated by many also, particularly because of the questionable JDM badge.

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Also, I disagreed with a lot of bandwagon opinions that the MT reviewers expressed about the car being "American" since it was originally designed by the Japanese and so was the powertrain. It's in essence more of a "hybrid" or joint effort. It's just assembled in America and the last design details were overseen by a political movement of a woman in leadership position.

I also strongly disagree with the NSX philosophy of the first gen and 2nd gen argument while also the non-resemblance comment. Why? Because I have a mind and an opinion of my own and don't lose sleep over what others think about the cars that I like to drive or own. The metrics are important but the subjective banter? I could care less.
 
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To your point.. most if not all of the cars tested are the highest trim of their class. One could argue that even the 570S had the benefit of the 12C and 650S before it. The NSX is essentially the 1st product version of a ground-up design.

the 570S is almost like the opposite of the other McLarens...

Based on a few days driving around the Bay Area, many people on the street are quite enamored with the NSX. A very nice guy from Google followed me into a gas station to get a closer look at the NSX. More people seem enamored with NSX than any other all-new notable car I have driven around (with the exception of GT-R which had a very loyal fan base of stalkers amongst teenage boys).

i'd hope so with the amount of money you've just spent! :biggrin:

Isn't it great we are not all the same. Some are always going to be glass half-empty, some glass half-full. I've been around long enough to know which camp people sit in. The NSX looses no appeal based on what I've read and heard in the majority reviews. For me it remains a totally desirable choice because of all it represents, in technical execution, quality and performance (glass half-full).

good on 'ya, some will also remain hopelessly optimistic! just mucking about, but truthfully when i run into people at car meet-ups in L.A., or people see my NSX around town, they much prefer the old car in my experience. take note - i said experience, not preference. i'm only telling you what other people whom are not me are saying. the constantly lackluster or downright negative reviews certainly can't be helping.

However, all things put together, if the new NSX is NOT any faster than a comparable Audi R8 V10+, 911 TT or 570S or even gets 'beaten' around the track, then, simply put, IT DOES NOT LIVE UP TO THE EXPECTATIONS!!

And it should...
With the new SH-AWD system, the front TMU, all the electronics, I am sure the car will feel wonderful on the road.
But it is a simple fact that cars like these get rated based on their track-performance. Why else would anybody be interested in Nurburgring laptimes, even though we all know that we ourselves could not duplicate those lap times even if we tried ten times over.

IMHO, the new NSX should EASILY keep up with the current crop of highend supercars like the ones mentioned above.
THAT is what the new technology more or less 'promised'. I can understand that it takes time to get things right, but Honda has been working on this car for over a decade.
I feel a bit let down so to speak...

MvM said it as best as it possibly could be, full stop.

and if none of you cared about the performance, no one would have been so eagerly awaiting (the alleged world beating) performance testing...

It seems like there is a good question about whether all the technology helps the NSX. With that acknowledged, I wonder what Randy's times would have been in track mode (all stability systems on)? It seems like you are limiting the ability of the technology to help if you turn a majority of it off. His complaints didn't mirror what we have read from other drivers including many from R&T.

Randy is a significantly more talented driver than any of the other editors.

and secondly, the car will be tested in a variety of modes to get the most out of it. Acura will also tell them which mode works best. whichever way the NSX, or the others were tested, will be the fastest possible way. there wasn't anything left on the table. the magazine even went so far as to tell you the tire pressures they used. this is the most thorough test done to date...

In terms of the original formula, McLaren built the better NSX.

I don't disagree. The 570S is amazing given how simple it is compared to the others.

absolutely. its simplicity is why it is sooooooo good. even though the 570S is a bloody tap dancer on a turbo charged rocketship, that's not what makes it so incredible. as i said before this test, and many months ago when i first drove it, it is simply beyond words how exhilarating it is to drive. Motor Trend nailed it, the McLaren is the perfect driver's car...
 
This shlub will be at Sonoma/Infineon in a couple weeks with the NSX and a C7 Z06 for the weekend and will be driving them back to back. It is not a track I know that well (ran there 4-5 times but now in last 3-4 years). I will report my findings and perhaps include some video.

In terms of NSX meeting "expectations," Acura themselves said it would meet or beat performance of 458 and then-current R8v10+. I looked at that and said "good enough for me." They appear to have delivered. Expectations met.

Now I, and others, "hoped" for more/better/faster. I'll admit to smiling when it (at VIR) beat the NEW R8v10+, but deep in my heart I knew it couldn't be *that* much faster. I am willing to accept that the Laguna laps are a fair test of the NSX's relative capabilities. Randy Pobst is no joke. That said, I am holding out a bit of hope that in future tests, the driver will have more time to learn how to drive this very different car to the limit. As noted here, at VIR they drove the car for three days and improved a lot. And, for example, they said the 570S was a real handful at the limits, and squeezing the last couple of seconds out was challenging.

Many factors at play in these tests and being the most unconventional car in the test is not going to help you.
 
Our track day at NSXPO 2003 was held at Sonoma/Infineon.

Look forward to your impressions Chris.......

Myself (yellow 2001) & Miled - great memories!

SteveMiled03_zps069d59e6.jpg~original
 
About 1/3 of my list wants a strippy, no option, steel brake NSX.

If that sample is representative of the market, then I'd say, the $156K pricetag is legit considering how expensive all of the Carbon options are...

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Cool video. Man that 4WD V10 from Audighini is amazing and so is the McLaren of course! I think the GTR barely edged the NSX this round, but it's really a testament of the electric motors doing something to move a 500 peak hp car across the line in the beginning.
 
if i had the means to buy and NSX, the only carbon option that i would add is the interior trim because it adds the metal pedals and the CF trim on the steering wheel. Thats the part that I would be staring at the most. mayyyybe i would consider the wing.

i dont track, so ceramic brakes aren't necessary for me.
 
The drag race portion of Best Driver's Car

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoNAt9bQZtY

This video basically says it ALL.
The guy is SO convinced that the NSX would win with all it's hightech, but yet, he came in at fourth place.

Which is not bad considering the competition, but it simply could/SHOULD have been in 1st.

As said above, McLaren basically has done the old NSX trick. Make a car that's light, give it good handling and a good engine and it will be fast.
Honda obviously wanted to show what the future of fast cars would look like (and which I still think it will be), but so far, everybody will be wondering what all the fuss is about if all you need is a good ICE engine and less weight (like the original NSX).

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This shlub will be at Sonoma/Infineon in a couple weeks with the NSX and a C7 Z06 for the weekend and will be driving them back to back. It is not a track I know that well (ran there 4-5 times but now in last 3-4 years). I will report my findings and perhaps include some video.

In terms of NSX meeting "expectations," Acura themselves said it would meet or beat performance of 458 and then-current R8v10+. I looked at that and said "good enough for me." They appear to have delivered. Expectations met.

Deep down inside, I still have some hopes that the new NSX takes much time to get the most of all the gadgetry and therefore, lap times will be lower in the near future once people have gotten used to the technology.

In the mean time, I'd be VERY interested in your opinion after having driven the NSX on the track.
 
In terms of the original formula, McLaren built the better NSX.

This video basically says it ALL.
As said above, McLaren basically has done the old NSX trick. Make a car that's light, give it good handling and a good engine and it will be fast.
Honda obviously wanted to show what the future of fast cars would look like (and which I still think it will be), but so far, everybody will be wondering what all the fuss is about if all you need is a good ICE engine and less weight (like the original NSX).
I agree with you both. McLaren has nailed down the old NSX formula. However, if you really stop to think about how Honda does things... they have a track record of being ahead of the curve even when its at their own detriment. If they simply built a 12C fighter, which is lightweight, maybe a high revving V8 like the 458, hell.. even a turbo like the 488 they'll really just be another girl at the party with the same dress but the girl is not as pretty, slightly porkier, but probably smart as hell. They have never been able to compete with the European supercar formula and it's not very Japanese of them to do so. They have always pushed the envelope (i.e. the first all aluminum, Vtech, ABS, etc, etc) and like I said.. if history repeats itself we won't realize the benefits of the NC1 until 15yrs from now MAYBE?

3800lbs? That's nearly the weight of the 918 but no one ever speaks about the weight of that car because it has "enough" HP. Yet, no torque vectoring and almost $600k MORE when new. Honda's fault is they can never make a sexy car. The Japanese way can't seem to achieve that out of the gates. Yet... for many of us here.. it's the wife we end up marrying. Go figure.

i'll still reserve judgement for the new NSX. I'd love to try one as a daily and live with it. I'd honestly provide my opinion if I had the chance. For now.. i'm giving it 12 months.
 
Its great the NSX brought 918 technology to the masses at a more attainable price point, but the hypercard trio uses hybrid technology to advance the performance of the car, not solely to "improve the feel" of driving it.

The original NSX best the 348 in almost every performance metric,and was a better handling car that did more with little. McLaren executed that better. Heck, for a Hybrid, not only did it not perform up to par with the minimalistic formula of the original nsx & 570S, but it really does not get that great of fuel economy compared to the 570S: 21/22 vs 16/23 for the 570S.

Hopefully Honda keeps working on it to deliver better performance in future years.
 
i dont track, so ceramic brakes aren't necessary for me.
I do track, and would prefer the iron brakes. :) But it's just DEs, not competitive races. The extra heat resilience isn't much of an issue when doing 20 to 25 minute DE sessions, and the weight reduction isn't a huge factor when not lapping for times. Iron brakes with, say, some Carbotech track pads are super cheap to replace so it's practical to bring replacements (both rotors and pads) to a track, operate well at the temps of a just-for-fun DE, and even work well at the colder temps seen at an autocross.
 
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