NSX natural weak points?

[Ferraripilot]

Hi everyone, I'm considering adding an NSX to the stable and would like to know if there are any weak points I should carefully review prior to considering a car. I have heard the transaxles are a little weak, but I obviously cannot confirm one way or another.

Some may know me from Ferrarichat as I am a regular there. I'm not trying to bounce the Ferrari crowd but I believe adding a NSX will balance the garage a bit. Ferrari's are magnificent and push all the right buttons, but the NSX is just different and equally exciting in many ways and will be a welcome addition.

 

[NSX-Barque]

Window regulators and climate control units.

 

[Honcho]

Welcome. Start by reading this.

In my opinion from a mechanical standpoint, the major "weak point" of the NSX is the oil system. The pump gear is made from pot metal that can explode and the pan has no baffle, which can result in a starvation issue at high sustained G and serious bottom end damage. Other than that, the car is an amazing example of superior engineering.

 

[shawn110975]

never heard the axle's are weak where did you hear that?

its an everyday exotic. read this article

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/includes/htup_0810_acura_nsx_buyers_guide/index.html

and learn.

 

[Big_D]

You might also want to do a search on the harmonic balancer crank pulley...

If you are looking to seriously abuse the car on the track then I agree with Honcho and get a baffled pan and/or Accusump and the Billet oil pump gear.

If you are using it mainly on the street then never mind.

 

[Ferraripilot]

Welcome. Start by reading this.

In my opinion from a mechanical standpoint, the major "weak point" of the NSX is the oil system. The pump gear is made from pot metal that can explode and the pan has no baffle, which can result in a starvation issue at high sustained G and serious bottom end damage. Other than that, the car is an amazing example of superior engineering.

That is incredibly surprising. Should I tear into the motor I suspect someone has engineered a suitable replacement? I can't imagine too many have had issues with this sort of thing really. I'm surprised this motor isn't dry sump to begin with.


Re the axle weakness. I had heard this through an fchatter who tracked their NSX regularly.

 

[Ferraripilot]

Also, what are the Zanardi cars getting when they are available?

 

[docjohn]

welcome,I mean no disrespect when I say...if that older ferrari in your avatar is yours..then every system/piece on any nsx is made to last longer and is more robust than any similar piece on your car:tongue: including paint:wink: So as long as you read the wiki/faqs and weed out the dogs from the used market ,you will be fine:smile:

 

[mlambert890]

By the time this thread is done, every major component of the NSX is going to have been flagged as "weak" by somebody who either believes it or heard it from somebody

I think use case is really important.

Heavy, heavy, track use is a big difference than spirited driving. And even heavy, heavy track use subdivides based on how good the driver is and how intense the sessions are.

Personally, I agree with NSX-Barque...

Window regulators on the older cars (pre 1997) and Climate Control Unit universally are two legit "weak spots". Ill add the Bose audio system as well which tends to not "age well" and like the CCU, is almost guaranteed to need a rebuild eventually.

 

[Ferraripilot]

welcome,I mean no disrespect when I say...if that older ferrari in your avatar is yours..then every system/piece on any nsx is made to last longer and is more robust than any similar piece on your car:tongue: including paint:wink: So as long as you read the wiki/faqs and weed out the dogs from the used market ,you will be fine:smile:

Thanks for the tips there. And yes, the above is one of the Ferrari's I have, and definitely my favorite. But I didn't come here to start a, "my car is better than yours" type thread which is just silly. They are just different and I respect and enjoy all of them for what they are which is why I am considering adding an NSX. I really like early 911RSR hot rod replica type cars as well.

The bottom end and tranny of the 308 motor is one of the most robust I have ever seen. The F40, 288GTO, and Lancia LC2 (800bhp race motor) all use that bottom end and it is quite literally as indestructable as they get and the same basic design is still used today. Same goes for the gearbox and diff. They are completely overbuilt for the application but of course this is welcome. The chassis and everything else is sort of vanilla for the day though, except the interior which are just magnificent. It is what it is right.

 

[Honcho]

That is incredibly surprising. Should I tear into the motor I suspect someone has engineered a suitable replacement? I can't imagine too many have had issues with this sort of thing really. I'm surprised this motor isn't dry sump to begin with.


Re the axle weakness. I had heard this through an fchatter who tracked their NSX regularly.

If the car is 300 whp or less and is running on street rubber, then there is no problem. It's when you add power + sticky tires (i.e., increase the lateral G) that you start to see problems. This is really only for tracked cars that have been modded. If the car is stock or mildly modded (Headers, exhaust, chip, etc) then I wouldn't worry. You asked about the "weak spot" though. The motor is perfectly reliable- Honda designed the oil system for the stock power. According to Honda, the pan can do 0.8 g sustained and 1.2 g "spike" without starvation.

Good Zanardis are extremely rare- it may be years before one comes up and bring your wallet. There are several "dogs" that are circulating the used market at any time. All of these junk Zanardis have serious issues like having been completely totaled- there is a thread on Prime that tracks them I think. Steer clear.

If you want the Zanardi experience, you can swap the 3.2 / 6-speed from a wreck into an early hardtop coupe (91-94). It's not cheap, but it's less expensive than a Zanardi.

 

[docjohn]

If you are near my age,49 ..then those older Ferrari hold that special something that you dreamed about then and now can own...its not anything specific its the whole asthetic/smell/sounds so different then the domestic cars of the era...so I get it.....I just decided that Honda's take on that formula is so much more user friendly and robust.

 

[Ferraripilot]

Heavy, heavy, track use is a big difference than spirited driving. And even heavy, heavy track use subdivides based on how good the driver is and how intense the sessions are.

Great points. Almost every machine will be subject to premature wear should an idiot be running the thing.

So long as the car has a strong core I am happy, which it sounds like it does. Ferrari 355s for instance are great cars but have horrible cores (valve guides, headers, etc should have been factory recalls). Ferrari 360s are great but a bit pricey and are not at all collectable (price will continue to plummet), and the clutch pricing is absolutely outrageous not to mention I work on my own cars and 360s require OBDIII Ferrari-specific crap to wrench on them which is just dumb. 348s have great motors but the gearbox shifts horribly and are prone to self-destruction, and the are heavy cars in general. You see the pickle I am in lol.

The 308 I have now needs a mate which is similar and just as fun, but different (I think that makes sense). The 308 is a very early 76 Euro car which has been essentially track-prepped but is very much a road car exterior and interior-wise. Upgraded suspension, brakes, engine is 325bhp NA with 270lbs tq and weighs 2770lbs. The car is quick and is a great performer but it needs a ying to it's yang. I have a early 512Boxer as well but it's very much a GT car rather than a sports car.

 

[tbromley]

I guess the question you have to answer is how you intend to use the car. Will you be doing heavy tracking? If not it depends on which model you want. Obviously the later model will be more trouble free due to age than an older one. A Zanardi is a wonderful car and will handle anything you want to dish out. I mean if I were you and wanting to know something specific about these cars related to your particular brand of usage then I'd talk privately with one of our great on board mechanics.

If I were you I'd call Eiffel - he's has a great shop here in Atlanta and will be glad to tell you his experiences with the NSX. He has one and it's super charged and he tracks it about 4 times a year. I doubt that he has "torn" into the bottom end to replace an oil pump gear. Call him - you'll find him friendly and extremely knowledgeable and willing to discuss the car with you. He does my work and others that live in Atlanta.

Eiffel's Place - 770-509-8883

The questions you ask have a lot of variables since this model was virtually unchanged but 2 times in it's 15 year run a lot of what you want to know would change depending on what you buy or which model. If you get the Zanardi - a great model btw and many here lust after them and a few have them (they are rare)- you won't have any trouble - it is a car you will want to protect a bit because it is rare and exclusive and worth savoring and if you have the bucks - it is very much worth having!!!

They are great cars - there is a range of model part of 91 and 92 that had a snap ring issue but not all with the transmission. Many have had that fixed but there could be some out there that haven't - easily identifiable from a number on the tranny. Otherwise a 20 year old car that hasn't had any ac work may have some issues depending on mileage same with the stereo - nothing that cannot be fixed. The drivetrain really has no real weak points I'm aware of. The pulley is something you might want to take care of if you do a lot of high rev driving. There is a lot on Wiki.

You'll love it - drive one! Good luck!

 

[Ferraripilot]

If you are near my age,49 ..then those older Ferrari hold that special something that you dreamed about then and now can own...its not anything specific its the whole asthetic/smell/sounds so different then the domestic cars of the era...so I get it.....I just decided that Honda's take on that formula is so much more user friendly and robust.

Very well put. I'm 32 and have a couple kids. The 70s Italian sports car formula is very special indeed, but there is a lot to be said about Honda which is why I like them so much. Something about more modern Ferrari's just doesn't sit right with me. It's almost as if they have lost their soul.

 

[mlambert890]

Honcho has you well covered... I think left stock, even tracking the car casually, extremely unlikely to have any real issues.

Modded, then it becomes a case of needing to balance the changes being made and understanding the systems in a bit more depth. My car is pretty extensively modded, BUT, I don't do track days so it isnt really an issue.

With my suspension and engine mods, if I were going to get serious about the track, I would definitely take a look at the oil system (there is a great NSX aftermarket actively participating on the forum that can help with nearly anything you need to do)

The FAQ/Wiki has some great content on maintenance. In general, the NSX is similar to a "normal Honda" from that perspective, but very different in some key areas. The belt service interval is more frequent (6 years for NA1 and 7 years for NA2 by the book) and more costly (typically around $2k at a dealer). Valve adjustment will be higher cost than normal, etc. Parts are starting to get a bit scarce and more pricey as well.

Honcos thread is a great summary of all of these issues.

 

[Ferraripilot]

The FAQ/Wiki has some great content on maintenance. In general, the NSX is similar to a "normal Honda" from that perspective, but very different in some key areas. The belt service interval is more frequent (6 years for NA1 and 7 years for NA2 by the book) and more costly (typically around $2k at a dealer). Valve adjustment will be higher cost than normal, etc. Parts are starting to get a bit scarce and more pricey as well.

I love you guys! 6-7 year belt changes at only $2k! Hah you all just made my day as I am very much ok with that. Ferrari = 3 year belt changes and they want double that for a full 'major service' and don't get me started on parts prices.

Anyway, I do all my own work (part of the hobby, right) so this does not at all sound like it's going to be an issue. Thank you!

 

[Bram]

It's almost as if they have lost their soul.[/QUOTE]....

Don't say that you will get all the Ferrari Guys upset....

Bram

 

[mlambert890]

I love you guys! 6-7 year belt changes at only $2k! Hah you all just made my day as I am very much ok with that. Ferrari = 3 year belt changes and they want double that for a full 'major service' and don't get me started on parts prices.

Anyway, I do all my own work (part of the hobby, right) so this does not at all sound like it's going to be an issue. Thank you!

Yes, total non issue in that case. If you are doing major on the Ferrari the NSX will be very easy.

Also, this site is gold for DIYers. There is a full DIY on the timing belt/water pump replacement with photos that has huge detail.

In addition, some of the absolute best NSX pros in the country post here very regularly and provide friendly answers.

Plus, there are hobbiest madmen like Shawn and Tuan who are continually tearing apart and rebuilding these engines I see you found Tae's thread (another ITB build) and from my experience everyone is incredibly cool and open about sharing.

Ive been a member on Ferrari Chat for ages and ages, and you will find the community here is very similar in that respect - especially the 308 community which also has some passionate experts openly sharing. There is some cross pollination as well with folks who own both cars or have jumped back and forth over the years.

 

[Ferraripilot]

It's almost as if they have lost their soul.

....

Don't say that you will get all the Ferrari Guys upset....

Bram[/QUOTE]

Haha. Well, you'd be hard-pressed finding a newer Ferrari owner claiming their 360 or 430 has more soul than a early carbureted 308 or Boxer. The newer Ferrari's are brilliant, but they lack that special spark, feel, smell, whatever you want to call it, that the 30+ y/o cars have. Once Ferrari's were stuck with cat converters it was all over and special models were few and far between (F40, 288, and the 355 was fantastic but it's a pile really). All the others are just used cars which sound neat with a Tubi etc. While the NSX on the other hand is the heart of Honda IMO.

Although there is no denying the 458 engine is some magnificent piece of engineering. Wow. Naturally aspirated tuners are seeing 600bhp+ all day with simple mods. Not my bag though.

 

[Ferraripilot]

Ive been a member on Ferrari Chat for ages and ages, and you will find the community here is very similar in that respect - especially the 308 community which also has some passionate experts openly sharing. There is some cross pollination as well with folks who own both cars or have jumped back and forth over the years.

I'm sold. Thanks much guys. I will start the search

 

[docjohn]

I'm sold. Thanks much guys. I will start the search

great..our work is done here....now you can move on to pole vault girl and our entire off topic forum:tongue:

 

[doc_tai]

do your own work timing belt service is under 500 dollars not 2000 dollars

 

[rbilder]

Enjoy the hunt... now the choices... colors, years, etc.

Tim has a very nice Sebring Silver one (91 NA1), with current maintenance I believe still on the market.

But you might be looking to keep the Red's in your stable.

I was at a show a week or so back and one of the judges was telling me that the Acura/Honda red was his favorite red.

As for WB/TB... I've heard people who have had them done for under $1k to $1,200. Do it yourself and save more.... but you are familiar with Ferrari service charges and I doubt there is anything on the NSX that compares...

Welcome to Prime by the way.

- Rod

 

[Ferraripilot]

Enjoy the hunt... now the choices... colors, years, etc.

Tim has a very nice Sebring Silver one (91 NA1), with current maintenance I believe still on the market.

But you might be looking to keep the Red's in your stable.

I was at a show a week or so back and one of the judges was telling me that the Acura/Honda red was his favorite red.

As for WB/TB... I've heard people who have had them done for under $1k to $1,200. Do it yourself and save more.... but you are familiar with Ferrari service charges and I doubt there is anything on the NSX that compares...

Welcome to Prime by the way.

- Rod

I'm going to monitor the market for a Zanardi edition. They are collectible and it's a car I would want to leave completely stock. If I change my mind, it will be for a late 90s 3.2 which I will leave NA, but plug in ITBs, exhaust manifolds etc, and run things with a Motec or the like. Unless it's an F40 or 959, turbos and supercharging is cheating (haha, I just prefer NA).