NSX marketing and advertising

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by nicholas421:
maybe you misunderstood. i am aware of their presense in auto racing. the key word was dominate.

No, I understood what you said. I just don't think that domination in racing is the answer to their marketing problem. Until just recently Ferrari had not won a F1 championship in 20 years - doesn't seem to have stopped them from unbelievable sales growth with a succession of higher and higher priced exotic cars. Honda could (and probably have) throw $100 million into their F1 program and still have no guarantee of dominating the championship. There must be more to this marketing stuff...

------------------
The NSX Model List Page

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
Five consecutive world championships sure sounds like domination to me. In fact, their domination was so complete that it was not all that good for F1 racing because it made for a lack of drama.

I'm too lazy to look it up but Ken is right on the money - there was a season (91?) in which the Honda-powered McLaren won 14 of 16 races and all but ruined Formula One for everybody else! Turn on telly - red/white car leading - yawn... - turn off telly.


------------------
The NSX Model List Page

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
There are a lot of good points made by all in this discussion. Would anyone mind if I printed it out and sent it to the folks in NSX marketing at Acura HQ?

I certainly have no objections to my comments being included and, since you know it, you may attach my name and e-mail address to them if you think it appropriate. Perhaps you'd like to give it another day or two so that more may have a chance to respond? Also, perhaps we should raise this topic on "the other" NSX forum since not everyone reads both?


------------------
The NSX Model List Page

 

[nicholas421]

Five consecutive world championships sure sounds like domination to me.

when was that? 10 years ago?
how many championships did the bulls have? can we say they dominate the sport?

In fact, their domination was so complete that it was not all that good for F1 racing because it made for a lack of drama.
similar to the way michael jordon was bad for bball?

 

[NSX2F1]

Originally posted by lemansnsx:
Ok, maybe Ferrari market the image and not the actual car... Buitoni even wrote a book on the subject...
Throw money at racing? Where've you been, lad? Honda had 5 consecutive World Championships in Formula One as the engine supplier to Williams and then McLaren. They have been a major player in C.A.R.T. for years as an entrant and as a series sponsor, they are spending millions and millions on Formula One again through B.A.R. and Jordan... not to mention the factory-backed LeMans effort and touring cars... what more do you want?
They tried the image marketing thing here in the US with the Acura brand - did you know that the F1 cars raced here with Acura on them, not Honda? Right down to the visor strip on the driver's helmet? The Acura brand, IMO, has been a half-assed effort here for a long time. No follow-through - no rewards. Also, you can't take a supercar like the NSX and not even freshen it up for 10 years - and, yes, I know all the running changes that were made - the 2001 car looks identical to the 1991 to anyone but an expert. In that same 10 years Ferrari went through, what, four succesive cars, each almost completely different than the one before? Evolutionary, yes, but still separate cars. Maybe Acura should can the marketing department and hire Buitoni!
(for those who don't get that - I'm referring to Gianni Longinotti-Buitoni, formerly head of Ferrari N.A.)

lemansnsx to answer your reply in the Corvette Forum,
I stand corrected, it's rather SIX constructor and FIVE driver championships.

Williams-Honda won the 1986 CONSTRUCTOR Championship with Nigel Mansell's Williams FW11-Honda, while Alain Prost won the Driver Championship in Mclarren-TAG-Porsche.

Chassis and Engine suppliers are Constructor! Vice versa, Constructor consists of Chassis and Engine Supplier. It's true that Engine Supplier alone doesn't make a Constructor. But Engine Supplier is Constructor and Honda enter Formula1 as a Constructor. As a matter of fact, in 1992, the Japanese Ministry of Trade honored and recognized Honda for winning their CONSTRUCTOR Championships.

And in 1989, Honda won 15 out of 16 Grand Prixs with Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna, with Mclarren M/P-Honda.

 

[nicholas421]

Originally posted by lemansnsx:
No, I understood what you said. I just don't think that domination in racing is the answer to their marketing problem.

=) no no... you DID misunderstand. i said that dominating on the track MIGHT put a sock in ferrari owners' mouths.

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by nicholas421:
=) no no... you DID misunderstand. i said that dominating on the track MIGHT put a sock in ferrari owners' mouths.

LOL! I know a few Ferrari owners who need a sock - in the head!


------------------
The NSX Model List Page

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by NSX2F1:
Chassis and Engine suppliers are Constructor! Vice versa, Constructor consists of Chassis and Engine Supplier. It's true that Engine Supplier alone doesn't make a Constructor. But Engine Supplier is Constructor and Honda enter Formula1 as a Constructor. As a matter of fact, in 1992, the Japanese Ministry of Trade honored and recognized Honda for winning their CONSTRUCTOR Championships.

And in 1989, Honda won 15 out of 16 Grand Prixs with Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna, with Mclarren M/P-Honda.

I think it was actually 1988 so we were both off. Hey, I said I was too lazy to look it up! I'm not going to argue Honda as a contstructor or not - the FIA regs say that the title goes to the chassis but, whatever, it isn't worth worrying over. WE know it was the Honda engine that did the trick, right?

------------------
The NSX Model List Page

 

[hejo]

Originally posted by akira3d:
... but then they ALMOST cut me from the interviews. Their reason? Because they were looking for people between 35 and 55 (and I'm only 29).

NOTE: I'm finding this thread interesting and hope maybe the Honda/Acura execs are watching.

To the point above maybe this is part of the answer... Could Honda be trying to figure out how to market to the same segment of people that Ferrari markets to? Who can afford $175k+ for a new car? Who can afford to put 600 miles on it and then sell to get the next one? Who can afford to have it sit in the garage with other cars from the same manufacture? What if the orginal 91 NSX sold for $115k+ comparable to a F348 or F355? Yes the volume would have been much, much lower. But how would the NSX be viewed today in the market? What would it be compared to?

I can remember when the Acura line was introduced into the US. The environment had a different feel than going to the local Honda dealer. There were cubes for business people to work in while waiting for their cars. If I needed a ride somewhere they would take me AND deliver my car to me when it was ready. I know the initial Acura dealerships were heavy influenced by Honda on the look and feel.

Roll forward 15+ years.... My local Acura dealers now have the same look and feel as the Honda dealers. For that matter just about any other dealer. No more yearly customer surveys. The work cubicals are gone. The free coffee and high touch efforts for the most part are gone. I have to ask in advance for a loaner car.

During my last trip to the dealer with my NSX the sales staff was blasting rap music into the parking lot having a BBQ. Nothing against rap it's just not what I care hear, i.e. this puts me in another market segment as I'm motivated not to be around something I don't want to listen to.

To whom and what were they trying to sell that day? What market segment were they trying to reach? Does the entire Acura product line fit this market segment?

Fundamentally there are only 3 business strategies: operational excellence, customer intimacy and product or service leadership.
Further competitiveness around these strategies is provided through cost leadership, differentiation or focus. The emphasis placed upon them across each of the strategies is what positions a company.

Unfortunately Honda seems to have lost their way. Acura was setup in the US as a way to create a narrower target market (focus) and differentiation (customer intimacy) to gain competitive advantage in the market. It's unclear what Honda's strategy is today for Acura which is why the marketing and selling efforts of late are probably so poor. No clear strategy leads to fragmented and confusing marketing and selling efforts.

For my market segment of one I'm feeling much more comfortable with my wife at the Benz dealer (they make me espresso) and me at the Ferrari shop where we talk about racing. Don't get me wrong I love the NSX and drive one for all the reasons we all have them, I'm just starting to feel like Honda doesn't care about my market. Maybe Honda should create a Ferrari like business catering to the performance exotic supercar segment.

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by hejo:
NOTE: I'm finding this thread interesting and hope maybe the Honda/Acura execs are watching.

For my market segment of one I'm feeling much more comfortable with my wife at the Benz dealer (they make me espresso) and me at the Ferrari shop where we talk about racing. Don't get me wrong I love the NSX and drive one for all the reasons we all have them, I'm just starting to feel like Honda doesn't care about my market. Maybe Honda should create a Ferrari like business catering to the performance exotic supercar segment.

You raise a lot of interesting points and I agree with most everything you said. You know, every trip to the Ferrari dealer is kind of neat. There's an ex Prost F1 car over there - "gee, come see the Challenge cars in the back" - "come up Sunday for the Grand Prix" - breakfast (and rocket fuel, errr, I mean espresso) provided, of course. Poring over the neat stuff they always have in for service, getting that special nod from the mechanics when they know that you get it - that you're not just a poseur...
I like to be treated a bit special - I like the fact that the service guys at my BMW dealer treat me better than I've ever been treated at a domestic dealership - I like the fact that the Infiniti dealer gal won't take "no" for an answer to "can I get you a beverage while you're waiting?". I like that the BMW/MINI guy is mailing me a hand written invitation to their grand opening. Mail me stuff, get me involved, invite me to driving events. Win me over as a customer!



------------------
The NSX Model List Page

 

[lemansnsx]

I think that Honda should shift the NSX over to be a Honda product. What's the point of spending millions of dollars in racing as "HONDA" and then trying to convince people that another brand, "Acura", has any pedigree or heritage. Let's face it: Acura is a made up name and a made-up company. They don't exist anywhere else in the world which leads me to think that Honda are beating their heads against the wall trying to compete with the likes of Ferrari and Porsche in the exotic market. Make it a Honda and then promote the heck out of the racing heritage!!

------------------
The NSX Model List Page

 

[nsxtasy]

Perhaps you'd like to give it another day or two so that more may have a chance to respond?

Absolutely.

perhaps we should raise this topic on "the other" NSX forum since not everyone reads both?

Go ahead. I'd rather not myself, since I'm persona non grata over there. Even more so than here.

You might want to include a link to this page so they can read what has already been said.

I'm finding this thread interesting and hope maybe the Honda/Acura execs are watching.

That's why I'll forward it on.

 

[nsxtasy]

Incidentally, people here have been bashing Acura in general here. Quite aside from the issue of the marketing of the NSX (which we should still keep in mind, since that's the topic we're supposed to be discussing), I think Acura has been doing a bang-up job in many ways. They have been doing it through the dimensions known as operational excellence and product leadership (which I've heard more often described as innovation). Operational excellence because they offer some products, such as the CL and TL automobiles, which are very similar to their competitors at a price that is 20+ percent lower. And product innovation with the MD-X sport utility, which is in many ways more innovative (as well as overall better) than the competition. I think the late Integra Type R also falls into both these categories, since it meets a niche (track car) that no one else is addressing anywhere near its price range.

The Acura dealer network's biggest problem is IMO consistency. There are some Acura dealers who DO give you espresso and fresh fruit and an overall feeling of being pampered. But the problem is that it is some dealers, not all dealers. Shortly after Acura was formed, Lexus showed how to succeed using the dimension of customer intimacy; Acura's focus, then and now, has been its products. But I think Acura shouldn't just ignore the same dimension as Lexus - which means pampering the customer, at all their dealers.

 

[NetViper]

I have had at least 3-4 people come up to me in the last couple months and ask me if acura still made an NSX. Someone asked me if they were making a 2002, and I thought so, but I wasn't sure. (yes-they are). This is crazy! I haven't seen an ad with the NSX since that Honda ad with the NSX in the garage. That has been a good 2-3 years. No wonder people think the car is gone.

If honda was smart, they would really use the introduction of the RSX to promote the NSX. Something a long the lines of "Acura, has always been at the front of technology with our sports cars - (show the NSX driving around) and now we bring you the RSX. blah blah. This way you promote your flagship car, and also associate the RSX with a fine level of refinement that the NSX has.

I think right now the best marketing tool for honda is us. We are the people who promote this car via our daily interactions with other. People always ask you about the car. And I bet they walk away thinking .."What can I do to own an NSX?". Granted, I don't own an NSX yet, but whenever someone talks about cars, I bring it up. I even have my friend sold on a blue/tan/auto vs getting a ferrari. Heck, I even went to a viper rally and started bringing up the NSX. All of them really respected the car and were asking all kinds of questions. (which surprised me)

Another area where the Honda has failed with the NSX is in car magazines. They NEED to have a NSX in every comparison test around. I cannot count the numbers of times in the last 5 years where I thought "I wonder why the NSX isn't included in this comparison??" A recent issue had a comparison with the 911 Turbo, 360, and db-7. Where was the NSX? It can hang with these cars in almost all areas, and beat them all on price, quality, reliability, and every day use. Why won't honda let the NSX come out and play?

As for the NextGen car, let's hope honda does a better job. I hope the new NSX is as big of step forward as the first car was over its competition back then. (348, 911). It is going to be tough to do, but I honestly feel they can make a car that can beat the ferrari 360 (the primary competition IMO) on every level for roughly 1/2 the price. That should be their goal.



------------------
NetViper -= 100% Stock EBP 2000 Civic Si =- Still looking to get an NSX, but at least I can live life at 8,000 RPM!

 

[NSX2F1]

Originally posted by lemansnsx:
I think it was actually 1988 so we were both off. Hey, I said I was too lazy to look it up! I'm not going to argue Honda as a contstructor or not - the FIA regs say that the title goes to the chassis but, whatever, it isn't worth worrying over. WE know it was the Honda engine that did the trick, right?

Absolutely

Two major points:
1. Honda engine won with BOTH Williams and later McLarren.
2. It's the Honda engine that FIA banned after 1990 season from Formula1. Because nobody else INCLUDING Ferrari could compete.

Please Honda, return to Formula 1 as Chassis and Engine supplier as you originally planned. Paint the cars "Championship White" with big red "H" and put "Powered by Honda" cars to where they belong; podiums.

 

[nsxtasy]

Where was the NSX? It can hang with these cars in almost all areas, and beat them all on price, quality, reliability, and every day use. Why won't honda let the NSX come out and play?

I think the cars used are determined by the magazines. Honda has press cars available. But magazines don't want to include a car that's not seen as news.

BTW, someone mentioned cars in the showroom. I think this is the most frequently overlooked and most easily remedied marketing approach. American Honda should pick up the floor cost (financing) for one NSX in every Acura showroom at all times. THAT would get the word out that the NSX is still on sale. NSX sales would double overnight.

 

[hejo]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
Incidentally, people here have been bashing Acura in general here... I think Acura has been doing a bang-up job in many ways. They have been doing it through the dimensions known as operational excellence and product leadership (which I've heard more often described as innovation.

I agree but one of the basic starting points for creating Acura was customer intimacy. So let's bring it back to the NSX. While I'm the second owner I contacted Acura and notified them that the VIN was now with me. At that time I also owned an RL and had owned Legends, Integras, Civics and an Accord. I've owned nothing by Honda products since 1983, except for a minor M3 slip for 6 mos. Well that is until recently when the Acura sales staff pissed my wife off so bad she drove to the Benz dealer and bought a new SLK. Didn't even want to deal. Her desire was to get as fast as possible away from the Acura sales department. BTW my son still drives the Accord I bought in 94.

I've had my NSX for about 2 years now. History shows (which Honda/Acura should have) that my wife and I rotate cars about every 2 to 3 years. I find it amazing that no one from Honda has contacted me in any way about my NSX ownership. Since my purchase I've received invites to look at Ferrari, Porsche, BMW and Benz. None from Acura/Honda except for a promo to test drive any Honda and get some walkie-talkies. Not even S2000 specific.

If I wanted to buy a new or used F360 today I know exactly where I can pick it up, the options it has and for what price. Benz sent me info on the SLK32 AMG asking me if I'm interested in it. I can pick it up in Europe and drive it around and then ship it back. BMW on the new M3. Porsche on the BoxsterS.

So I think the problem is while Honda/Acura is doing an excellent job on innovation and cost leadership they're falling down on the one foundations used to create Acura - customer intimacy. And in the NSX market segment customer intimacy is absolutely required. Look at Ferrari: innovation - yes; operational excellence - not really; cost leadership - what??? oh yes one of the most expensive; How do they do it? Hmm go figure.

 

[akira3d]

When I bought my 2000 NSX, I thought that one of the added perks of owning a brand new top-of-the-line Acura/Honda was that I would be treated like a top-of-the-line consumer. I certainly had heard good things from people who had bought NSXs, Legends, and Integras in the early '90s. But I've encountered a mixed experience thus far.

The salesperson I dealt with provided the right first impression (in addition to taking me seriously from the moment I first started talking about the NSX, she threw in a bunch of goodies including a nice 1/18 scale die-cast Honda F1 race car, a t-shirt, a hat, a mug, some music CDs, etc.), but after the deal was made and I went behind the doors to sign the paperwork, things went somewhat downhill. Of course, Acura made good on every problem that came up during my first year of ownership, which has kept my general attitude towards American Honda quite positive, but I never received the royal treatment that I've heard people get via luxury car dealerships like Mercedes and Lexus.

In fact, during one of my trips to a nearby Acura service department, I felt like I was receiving the same level of treatment that a Civic owner would receive at a Honda service department (or a Celica owner at a Toyota service department).

But I have still had far better experiences with Acura than I ever did with Toyota. In fact, I will never own a Toyota again because of the experiences I've had dealing with the dealerships and their salespeople. I think the key is that Acura DOES respond to your concerns if they are properly expressed. I think that Acura DOES care that their customers are satisfied.

And Acura does offer some VERY attractive deals (if not very attractive cars). My wife and I are seriously considering the MDX or TL Type S for her next car...and we wouldn't do so if we still didn't feel good about Acura as a company or the quality of the products.

But it would be nice to be treated like royalty.

[This message has been edited by akira3d (edited 03 August 2001).]

 

[David]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
Honda has press cars available. But magazines don't want to include a car that's not seen as news.

Sort of true, but not really. Notice that the C5 is in almost every comparison test, even though it is hardly news worthy at this point. The magazines sit down and figure out who they want to include, but that can be very heavily influenced by a good media contact person. You can bet the house that the Vette brand manager has someone on his staff that does nothing but schmooze the trade mags, ask them what they have coming up and pushing to get his car included in as many stories as possible.

When I had computer hardware clients, they would always complain that their products weren't included in enought comparison stories or shoot outs. Paying attention to the people at the tech mags and offering machines to test at every opportunity changed that instantly in every case. Honda needs to do the same. If you talk to the editors at the car books, they all are fond of the NSX and many still consider it the standard for a sports car. They just need to be reminded of that and this is clearly another area where Honda/Acura has been remiss.

On the issue of dealer service, there is a lot of variance. Here in Austin, I hate the Mercedes dealer. I cring every time I have to take my C43 in - which is far more often than you would expect. I have had at least twenty problems during the first two years of ownership. They refuse to provide loaners, they always need the car all day and if you don't schedule a pickup a day in advance, they won't give you a lift. My Acura dealer (McDavid) has a wonderful service department. One of the best I have ever encountered. Their sales people are awful, however.

 

[CChung]

Suddenly I'm getting some marketing activity from Acura. First was the interview over the phone and now I just got an invitation from Acura to participate in the Palos Verdes Concours d' Elegance on Sept. 9. They want to display my car along with 25 other NSX's at the event. Ferrari and Lamborghini will also be displayed. Anyone going or got invited? I don't think I'll display my car but I plan to attend. Maybe a good get together for all of us NSXers?

The phone interview was pretty much a casual conversation about the NSX and what I would like to see changed and the general public's perception of the car. I really could have got detailed but the interviewer, I felt, wouldn't understand half the things I was telling her. I even told her to have whoever is responsible for the next generation NSX to call us owners up and get our feedback. Someone who is technical enough from Acura to understand what changes we would like to see and how to market the car better. Anyone who did the interview have similar feelings?

I think everything that needs to be said has been said on this topic of marketing. Some really good points that Acura, I hope, will listen to.

------------------
'00 NSX-T, silverstone/blk, #252

 

[akira3d]

Suddenly I'm getting some marketing activity from Acura. First was the interview over the phone and now I just got an invitation from Acura to participate in the Palos Verdes Concours d' Elegance

Hey Calvin, I got that same invite. I've been trying to figure out if it is even worth displaying a stock NSX amongst the more unique ones that are in the club. But like you, I'm interested in attending even if I don't display my car (after all, it's close by).

I like the fact that Acura is sponsoring the event and has a spot for 26 NSXs between the Lambourghinis and Ferraris. Perhaps there is hope

I really could have got detailed but the interviewer, I felt, wouldn't understand half the things I was telling her.

I didn't get that vibe, but then I didn't get much into technical specifics either. I felt that my interview was more about identifying the kind of people who buy NSXs, than about learning what specifically was wanted in the next NSX. And without getting into technical specifics, I felt that just mentioning that we'd like to see the NSX in the same class as the 360 (and not the Vette), but with the attributes that makes us excited about the current NSX says a lot, don't you think?

 

[ilya]

Alex V. sent an email around with details on this very trip. Apparently the NSXCA has an invite and will have space set aside for us. I plan to go.

 

[CChung]

Hi Eric,
Glad to see you're going to the Palos Verdes event. I think we'll be seeing a lot of NSX owners down there, particularly when Acura is sponsoring the event. I wonder if they'll be able to get 26 NSXs to display. And I don't know whether they would rather have stock NSXs or modified ones to show. Maybe a mixture of both.

Yeah, I guess some of the questions in my interview were addressed toward what type of buyer would purchase a NSX. I told her it would be someone very knowledgable about cars and who wants exotic car performance and styling but not the poor reliability and high maintenance cost issues that go with European sports cars. I also told her the main thing most everyone wants to see is more power in the next generation. I'm sure Acura knows this by now.

------------------
'00 NSX-T, silverstone/blk, #252

 

[pacacu]

wait for news at the Tokyo Auto show in the fall. The interviews are to get more inputs for the launch plan. Focus groups and clinics are usually done months ahead of introduction. As to more power, the key is the domestic market, there are limitations. The new generation will likely be less expensive as well so to reach a wider audience, not just in the US, but around the world. As to the V-8/10, doubt very much it will materialise as these engines are too expensive for Honda to develop and usage too limited to re-coup the R&D. Unless usable for the newer RL/MDX but RL is just not competitive anywhere compared to Lexus/Q-45. Honda is too proud a mfr. to share development costs re engines. The strength of the company is still engineering and 4/6 cylinders are the core business for the range of products. As to A&P programs for NSX after the initial launch period. Why bother when you are not selling volume. Look around, you see Aston Martin doing much on the Vantage when they cannot build enough, or the Morgans !!. NSX in the present form and the next generation will never be a mass appeal variant. The profitability factor means exclusive ownership, then also the halo car for the company. If you folks live in LA/Phoenix areas, you may be lucky to catch glimpse of the disguised new NSX being tested late at nite or in the early dawn hours.

 

[Lud]

Wow this has turned into a great thread. Obviously my questions were leading... Here is my take.

I think we all agree, and even Honda has made it pretty plain, that at least in the US, they do not know who their NSX customers are beyond some basic demographics such as age and income. That means they don't know how to really market the car. They make stabs at marketing it to "upscale" consumers but that's about it. The approach is very sporadic and spotty.

For example, they clearly dumped a bunch of money into developing and promoting the nsxbyacura website, yet it has been completely stagant since introduction a couple years ago. Right on the opening screen it says "Nine years after its introduction, the NSX continues to draw raves." That was fine to say in 1999, but it is now more than half way through 2001; the NSX was introduced about 11 years ago.

The problem is: How DO you market the car? I think this is an ENTHUSIAST car through and through. Yet a new NSX is considerably too expensive for most enthusiasts. I think this is evident to most people who have attended many NSX events where most of the attendees are real enthusiasts but the majority bought used. This is 180 degrees from other marque club events I've been to where almost everyone bought their car new. I'm really not sure how to overcome that fundamental mismatch.

The other issue is that Acura seems to have lost their focus. They started out as a sporty luxury car company offering excellent value and service. But the success of Acura for the last 5-6 years has been entirely based on product excellence and value (Integra, TL, MDX, etc.) and is DESPITE their slipping level of customer service and nebulous image for the brand as a whole.

And all the corporate marketing and advertising in the world will not make up for dealers who don't have any sales staff who know anything about the NSX, a showroom that hasn't had an NSX on the floor in years, or bad experiences with the service department once the sale is made. As several others have noted, the Acura dealerships, service and attitude have really been headed downhill in the last few years. If you don't live near one of maybe a dozen Acura dealers in the country who still personify what Acura should be, good luck!

[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 04 August 2001).]