NSX losing quality over the years?

[NetViper]

Todd mentioned in another thread that he thought his 2001 NSX does not compare in build quality to his 91 car. I have never heard anyone say that before.

Has anyone upgraded from an earlier car (91-94) and been dissapointed with the quality of a 97-current?

Some of the things Todd cited were "the glovebox is not aligned evenly, the passenger airbag cover has waves in it, the stitching along the dash and seats is not as tight and even, the seat belt makes a snapping sound when the wind hits it as if something is loose or missing, the body panels do not all have smooth edges especially on the inner rocker panels, the seat backs have 'play' in them from side to side (they flex sideways and actually creak), the edges where black paint meets body color around the engine"

That really surprises me and I don't think we have ever had a topic on this before.

I wonder what our 2002 NSX owners think of the build quality of their cars?

So, let's here your thoughts.

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NetViper -= 100% Stock EBP 2000 Civic Si =- Still looking to get an NSX, but at least I can live life at 8,000 RPM!

 

[1HOT NSX]

I have never owned an older model but my '99 has the highest quality of any car I've owned. The paint is flawless! - much better than a '98 Mercedes and a 2000 RL that I own. The interior, trunk and engine compartment are the same - just perfect. My car has been the most reliable machine - no issues so far. The only complaint I have is the fact that the alignment was not done correctly at the factory and a set of front tires was ruined in a very short time. I couldn't begin to guess why Todd's car shows so many apparent flaws.

 

[Chuck]

Originally posted by 1HOT NSX:
The only complaint I have is the fact that the alignment was not done correctly at the factory and a set of front tires was ruined in a very short time. I couldn't begin to guess why Todd's car shows so many apparent flaws.[/B]

I was once told that alignments can be knocked out during the shipping process and the selling dealer should check it before you take delivery. In line with this tread, my 99 has the same quality as my 95 which I feel was exceptional. I can't beleive the dies are worn out from making so many vehicals

 

[Lud]

I have owned a '91 and now a '98. I have been in dozens of all years and thorougly inspected several early and late model cars 1991-2000. I do not see any overall difference in build quality or fit and finish between any of those years.

I guess it is possible something changed in 2001 but it seems unlikely anything fundamental would have changed. Perhaps Todd just got one with a couple problems that slipped through QC.

Some other problems he describes were very possibly caused after the car left the factory and can probably be fixed with a socket set (seats shifting side-to-side or glove box out of alignment).

I have never seen an NSX with a bad factory paint job or rough panel edges. I am sure Todd knows how to spot a car with paint work, but it if were anyone else I would say that is a classic symptom of a repaint. Maybe a QC failure at the factory. It happens to the best I'm sure.

The stitching on my '98 looks at good as my '91. They are hand stitched so there is a chance for variation in quality I suppose. If you want to see sloppy stiching, look at at some older high-end British or Italian cars!

Overall I think my '98 has a slightly more refined fit and finish than my '91 in certain respects, mostly the leather on the seating surfaces and the feel of some of the controls. I cannot think of any way in which it is poorer.

That being said, the car is hand built so there ARE variations in fit and finish from one to the next, even within the same model year. I have noticed that every NSX I have driven or ridden in feels slightly different somehow.

[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 18 April 2002).]

 

[NSX-00054]

Originally posted by NetViper:
Todd mentioned in another thread that he thought his 2001 NSX does not compare in build quality to his 91 car. I have never heard anyone say that before.

Maybe his car was built on a Monday or Friday.

My 2002 seems flawless to me, but it's the first one I've owned.

Newton

[This message has been edited by NSX-00054 (edited 19 April 2002).]

 

[Carguy!]

I owned a '91 for about 3 years and now own a '00 and both have great build quality. If anything I would say the seating quality is nicer (Perf. seats). I am guessing that Todd must of gotten one that fell through some cracks at the factory and at the dealer.

 

[akira3d]

I had three "fit" problems with my brand new 2000 NSX-T that were remedied during my first year of ownership.

The first was a problem with the driver's-side door latch making contacting with the pillar (it chipped off the paint at the contact spot). The second was the door threshold pad coming loose. And the last was the headlight cover making contact with the hood (and rubbing off a spot of paint) when the lights were up. The dealership covered any adjustments and any paint that needed to be touched up...and even restored a nasty scratch that I had put on one of my rims as compensation for all of the troubles I had.

Still, I found this quite annoying on a car with such a reputation for excellent fit and finish.

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--akira3D
'00 Acura NSX-T (red/black), '97 Honda Civic HX (black), '01 Lexus IS300 (black/black)
"Reality is better than the dream..."

akira3d.com/nsx

 

[tabasco]

No problems with my '00. I looked at and tested about 8 NSXs ranging '91 - '00 and found no build quality issues.

I had some VERY minor issues after I drove the car home from FL, but my local dealer responded and fixed them completely. Of the 28 new cars that I have owned in my life, this one is the best, followed by the '93 300zx-tt. I also have a '87 Legend Coupe that is unbelievably tight and only now shows a few signs of sags along some of the seams.

I hope there is no quiality issues with Honda/Acura. They are the best. I had a '00 Lexus that was a piece of c**p.

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• '00 Candy Apple Blue / Black, #264
• My Card
• My NSX

 

[true]

Originally posted by NetViper:
Todd mentioned in another thread that he thought his 2001 NSX does not compare in build quality to his 91 car. I have never heard anyone say that before.

Hrm..I noticed his front lip has been painted for sure...theres at least a better chance that the whole car has been painted after he describe some of the build issues... :\

------------------
jack of all trades, master of some.

 

[JoeSchmoe]

Originally posted by akira3d:
...
The first was a problem with the driver's-side door latch making contacting with the pillar (it chipped off the paint at the contact spot)...

Ive got a 94 with the same problem... so its not some new problem in 2000+ cars.

BTW Akira3d, do you remember what the dealer did to solve the problem? I wouldnt mind tinkering with it some day to get it fix it.



[This message has been edited by JoeSchmoe (edited 18 April 2002).]

 

[CChung]

I had a '94 before I got my new '00 NSX-T and I got to admit the '94 seemed to have better build quality than my '00. Really the one thing I really noticed is how uneven the gaps are between the panels, especially between the doors and front fenders and the headlights and hood. Also the alignment of some body parts are uneven. I could also mention some other small nagging things but overall the car has been great mechanically.

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'00 NSX-T, silverstone/blk, #252

 

[Nsxotic]

Although I went on quite a rant in the other thread, I did not mean to imply that things were horribly off or way out of alignment. The glove box is slight, the edges are good but not great, etc.... This car is still better made than anything else I have been in. The front spoiler was put on by myself so, true, it's not indicative of a repaint. I will say that all of us at the dealership have stared at this car until we were blue in the face... We definitely know what paintwork is and how to spot it. And, not one of us believe it has ever been touched (and neither does the local Acura body shop) but some of those previously mentioned things just blow our minds a bit. CChung is ABSOLUTELY correct with his analysis of the panel gaps, IMO. They are definitely not as straight/even as my 91. You could have measured those with a micrometer and not found any variances. All this being said, I'm not sure if everyone understands how critical I am or how closely I look.... My level of examining a car may be much more intense than most people.... or not.

Separate question.... to those with Yellow.. Do you notice that each panel has a little different shade to it? Of course, the bumpers are different from the aluminum but I mean the other panels contrasting with each other..... Remember, I mean VERY slightly, some I point it out to notice and others do not.

Last question. Do they paint NSX panels separately prior to assembly? If so, this would definitely explain the above with the use of pearl paints....

 

[steveny]

Originally posted by Lud:


That being said, the car is hand built so there ARE variations in fit and finish from one to the next, even within the same model year. I have noticed that every NSX I have driven or ridden in feels slightly different somehow.

[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 18 April 2002).][/B]

I noticed this as well. I looked at and drove many cars before buying mine. Each and every one of them were different in some way. I attributed it to the NSX being hand built.This is why I believe each NSX is granted A soul at the factory.

 

[johne]

I have owned a 92 and now drive a 95 with 60 k miles, both excellent in build quality and the paint is flawless on both cars (both black) the only difference that I really noticed is the 92 is a tad faster than the 95T, most likley do to the additional weight.

------------------
johne
1992 NSX Blk/Blk
1995 NSX-T Blk/Blk

 

[DeHaldaswerth]

Nsxotic --

I didn't think anyone in the world could be as picky as me, but it sounds like you are a kindred spirit. I had an 00 Targa, blue. I noticed exactly what you mentioned regarding slight variance in panel color. It was especially notable between the upper rear portion of the door and rear quarter. I must have stared at my car for a hundred hours in all types of light before I concluded that it was simply an optical illusion. I would suggest that this is inherent in most metallic or pearl paint jobs. Another guy in my area owned a blue NSX, same year, and the exact same illusion appeard on his car as well. I also noticed a minor flaw in the paint on one of the seams of my car, where there was no "pearl" in the paint, and it appeard to be transparent blue all the way down to the primer. I'm sure that no one in the world would have noticed it except for me. BTW, I was always nervous owning a car with such a delicate and hard to repair paint job-- I have yet to see a pearl paint that could be matched after an accident without a complete repaint of the entire car. Yea, I know, everyone always says they know a guy who can do it, but I have yet to see it for myself. Needless to say, rock chips simply cannot be repaired with any degree of satisfaction.

I now have an 01, Red. The paint is flawless, as is the rest of the car. Easily the best factory paint I have ever seen, Porsche, Mercedes and Ferrari included. I think alot of it is just luck of the draw --some NSXs just go together better than others. You would think, however, that with as few as are assembled now days, they would all be perfect. Could be that they are tweaked during shipping and handling. When I bought my 01, it had been on the showroom floor for about seven months. I flew out to California to look at it, and the first thing I noticed was a big scratch in the console surface. When I voiced concern, the dealer immediatly orderd a new console and had it installed before I came back to pick the car up. $600 later, it was perfect again.

[This message has been edited by DeHaldaswerth (edited 19 April 2002).]

 

[Nsxotic]

Sounds like you look as closely as I. I agree that no one could have painted any portion of this car and did it so well that myself and 5 other car guys can't definitively tell it has been painted. I'm sure it's just 'poor' buiding at the factory. There is definitely no repaint here. I even noticed burrs inside the doors by the hinges, in the engine compartment and under the hood among other places...... something else that didn't exist on my 91.

Again, does anyone know if the body panels are painted separately prior to assembly?

 

[gheba_nsx]

By reading this and the other thread where you point out these minor issues in the quality of the '01 car I began to wonder if they still use the most qualified Honda employee with X years of exeperience and blah blah blah anymore to assemble the NSX.

I imagine *not* since it would not have any sense at all for such a low production, low income, low interest car as the NSX in the bigger image of Honda production line system.

We all (at least me) still imagine that the "romantic", "hi-tech" & "human" assemby system we read about in the many brochures, books, ... we collect about the NSX is still true but we are no more in '90, '91 or '92 and the NSX probably is not regarded as important as it was back then. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Soichiro]

The NSX body is painted as one complete unit. There is an excellent chart and explanation of the multi-step process in the NSX book with the die-cut aluminum logo on the front.

 

[Lud]

Explanation of the paint process: http://www.nsxprime.com/Gallery/press/tidh/tidh-20.htm


Picture of a car in the paint booth: http://www.nsxprime.com/Gallery/press/tidh/tidh-57.htm

 

[ck]

Originally posted by Nsxotic:

Separate question.... to those with Yellow.. Do you notice that each panel has a little different shade to it? Of course, the bumpers are different from the aluminum but I mean the other panels contrasting with each other..... Remember, I mean VERY slightly, some I point it out to notice and others do not.

Todd,

I noticed this as well. It seems that if you look very closely at the right angles and light, some panels are different colors than others. No one else ever notices it but the hard core car guys. It is because of the pearl paint. Why don't you try using a Elcometer to measure the paint on your car?

Chris

 

[Nsxotic]

Thanks guys. And, ck, I did that already and it seems factory. Depths are consistent.

 

[akira3d]

<< BTW Akira3d, do you remember what the dealer did to solve the problem? >>

They ended up having to recess the door pillar AND shave a bit of material off the back side of the latch.

The problem with just pushing back the pillar is that the top needs to meet flush with the roof line and pushing it back tends to change the angle at the point they meet. I found their first few attempts to remedy this situation unacceptable...I didn't want any adjustment that made the car look anything less than perfect. One attempt had the top edge of the pillar popped up in such a way that it was obvious from the front or back of the car. On another attempt, I noticed that highlights were broken as I walked by.

Removing material from the backside of that latch was the only thing they could really do to make sure that the it never happened again. And I doubt you could tell that anything had been done to the latch.

 

[JoeSchmoe]

Originally posted by akira3d:
<< BTW Akira3d, do you remember what the dealer did to solve the problem? >>

They ended up having to recess the door pillar AND shave a bit of material off the back side of the latch.

Ouch... sounds more involved than I want to get into.



[This message has been edited by JoeSchmoe (edited 22 April 2002).]

 

[JoeSchmoe]

Here's an example of what Im talking about. Please excuse the dirt as I found it futile washing the car while rain loomed on the horizon.

<img src=http://www.nsxprime.com/members/gloo/latch.jpg>

All the exterior panel gaps are spot on perfect so the door probably isnt on crooked or anything. There are signs that the latch mechanism and stiker plate have been messed with by the previous owner, but I dont see how any amount of adjustment will get the cap screws to clear the door jamb.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by Soichiro:
The NSX body is painted as one complete unit. There is an excellent chart and explanation of the multi-step process in the NSX book with the die-cut aluminum logo on the front.

Clarification: The aluminum body panels of the NSX body are painted as one complete unit. The paint is designed to cure in a high-temperature oven.

This is one reason why the plastic body panels (bumpers, headlight covers) are painted separately. Another reason is that the paint composition for the plastic pieces is different because a plasticizer is added to allow the paint to flex easily along with the plastic panel.