NSX FI Shootout

[manh3]

I am not trying to stir the pot by any means but am very interested in going FI. Recently there have been numerous new force induction product releases, so I was wondering if we can somehow setup a day where we can have either the owners of these new products or customers bring their car out for a track day and if possible a dyno day. I am willing to shell out 50 bucks towards an account to compensate for their time and if other NSX owners would put in 5 or 10 bucks not it would not be mandatory. I believe that a lot of people will be able to learn and gather additional information that will encourage greater sales numbers if we had something to compare the products with. AS in dollar per HP, reliability of the set up, drivability and so on. The NSX is a great platform but the missing link is about another 50-75HP. I believe that if we can some how get this shoot out to occur this would greatly benefit the NSX community and ease a lot of the FI fears.

New CT supercharger
GruppeM Supercharger
Basch Supercharger
SOS supercharger
Prospeed turbo
Love fab
Angus DIY kit
Stampo turbo kit.

 

[scorp965]

HP Performance turbo kit

Others missing from the list...

Driving Ambition Turbo Kit
Autowave Turbo Kit
Driving Ambition larger capacity Whipple SC's
Turbolab Turbo kit?

I am not sure this type of shoot out is required, the market is kind of saturated with options right now... if you're looking for FI, it's not going to be hard to find.

Several of these options are essentially the same, such as the CTSC and SOS supercharger system, or the BBSC and Dali Boostzilla. Most of the turbo kits have the same, or very similar layouts, using stock headers with a y-pipe, it is perhaps more meaningful to explore unique setups, and determine whether those setups offer an advantage to other options.

eg CTSC vs BBSC - the CTSC is a superior system, producing a greater level of usable power.

HP performance vs Lovefab turbo, the HP performance replaces your headers, saving you money for initial installation, and also offers a better angle for oil drain.

Lovefab vs Angus kit, Lovefab comes in a big box ready to go on the car, the Angus kit requires you become buddies with a fabricator, by which time you could probably fab your own kit from scratch.

BBSC vs Boostzilla, with one you have to deal with a seedy history of split second boxes, with the other, you have to deal with the seedy history of Mark Johnson.

 

[lightguy]

I would love to see this as well but possibly at an EXPO like one done in DFW years back where a dyno day was done. At the time I had My Precious but was not thinking FI at all.

There are lots of factors in choosing a kit and to me am thinking 350 HP max (Stock engine and clutch), simple installation, and low upfront cost. I'm looking at a GruppeM and BBSC in either Novi 1000 and 2000 flavors.
GruppeM also has the looks thing going for or against it depending on how you look at it. I'm on the fence.

Autowave turbo at the other end of the spectrum.

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

WOW... we were just thinking about this and I have some contacts at honda tuning/modified mag that would probally be interested in coverage for the event...

One problem would be to get all of them there... but here is the reality of that situation

CT supercharger - VERY EASY TO LOCATE IN AZ OR CA
GruppeM Supercharger - i CAN MAKE ARRAGEMENTS TO PUT MY GMSC ON AN nsx IF THIS WERE TO BECOME A REALITY.... SO AZ
Basch Supercharger - VERY EASY TO LOCATE IN AZ OR CA
SOS supercharger - IN AZ
Love fab - VERY EASY TO LOCATE IN AZ OR CA
Angus DIY kit - I THINK SOMEONE IN CA IS INSTALLING ONE... BUT HE IS LOCATED IN VANCOUVER
Stampo turbo kit .... also known as STMPO...lol - ALSO IN AZ
HP Performance turbo kit - SCORP IS IN SOUTHERN CA
Driving Ambition Turbo Kit - SHAD IS IN IS IN SOUTHERN CA
Autowave Turbo Kit - AUTOWAVE IS IN IS IN SOUTHERN CA
Driving Ambition larger capacity Whipple SC's - SHAD IS IN IS IN SOUTHERN CA
Prospeed turbo - I THINK THEY ARE IN CA... THATS THE ONLY OC I KNOW OF
Turbolab Turbo kit? - I THINK THEY ARE IN UTAH
FX500 - Las Vegas Nevada
FX750 - - Las Vegas Nevada


My opinion is that location is taken care of.... but scheduling is what will need to be figured out....

if someone wants to make some calls... here is a list

New CT supercharger
GruppeM Supercharger - STMPO has it covered and were in!
Basch Supercharger
SOS supercharger
Prospeed turbo
Love fab
Angus DIY kit
Stmpo turbo kit. - Were in!!!
HP Performance turbo kit
Driving Ambition Turbo Kit
Autowave Turbo Kit
Driving Ambition larger capacity Whipple SC's
Turbolab Turbo kit?

 

[adrenaline_nsx]

I think there are just wayyyy to many variables to make a shootout, pointless really.

 

[blodi]

I would be interested in seeing this happen too. I don't have FI, but here are my thoughts....
I would also like to see it where it is actually comparable data in having the cars all at roughly the same peak HP so that the dyno charts can be looked at objectively. Having someone come with a low boost CTSC on a stock engine and comparing it to a car with a stage 3 Lovefab and a fully built engine is going to be a pretty worthless comparison.
I would suggest all the cars be around 380-420rwhp which is what most people aim for with stock internals...assuming the setups could all put that amount out.
Of course if there was just an all out HP war part in addtion that would be cool.
Hope this can happen! Would make for some great data.

 

[Erik B]

If the makers of these products would get onboard with this...I think its a badass idea! I think some company's know there product isnt better, or might feel like they might get out preformed and not want to do it. But I think it would defiantly help those of us, I mean those of you knowing one day your NSX will be FI

 

[Vega$ NSX]

Also missing from the list: Factor X

You remember these guys right? They are the ones who keep winning Redline attacks, Time attacks, and various other races across mulitple tracks. Would seem to me that a turbo setup that actually wins races seems to be a pretty decent one.

Agree with the above. Shootout isn't required. The information is out there and there are too many variables for this to be meaningful.

If you are serious about FI figure out:
1) What kind of boost (turbo or SC)
2) How much power you want
3) How much you are willing to spend
4) Where do you live and find the closest competent tuner who has FI experience with the NSX

Fin

 

[doc_tai]

I think it's pointless as well, 3.2 make more power than 3.0, stock compression motor make more power than lower compression at the same boost level, after market header make more power than stock header, the list goes on and on.

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

I think it's pointless as well, 3.2 make more power than 3.0, stock compression motor make more power than lower compression at the same boost level, after market header make more power than stock header, the list goes on and on.

so your saying car and driver should start comparing performance of a yellow 911 to a red 911 to a black 911 to a white 911 to the new limited edition green 911????

or maybe you bought the turbo kit that recomends bov isnt needed, recomends mounting a WTA inches away from a piping hot exhuast,

constantly recomends meth injection as a safety technique instead of a risky bet, and has 350 posts because 4 users are having a conversation with themselves as if it were YIM

my $.02

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

Also missing from the list: Factor X

You remember these guys right? They are the ones who keep winning Redline attacks, Time attacks, and various other races across mulitple tracks. Would seem to me that a turbo setup that actually wins races seems to be a pretty decent one.

Agree with the above. Shootout isn't required. The information is out there and there are too many variables for this to be meaningful.

If you are serious about FI figure out:
1) What kind of boost (turbo or SC)
2) How much power you want
3) How much you are willing to spend
4) Where do you live and find the closest competent tuner who has FI experience with the NSX

Fin

Factor X

dude... you are correct... and Mike, Ken and Billy are gonna kill me for not mentioning them....:smile:

I think the problem with the current information provided is way to broad and the information isnt provided by the same source or measurement

examples being... one owner could have 15k into thier CTSC and another owner has 8k... then the dynojet, dynapak, mustang differences... then the type of fuel and elevation...ect.ect...

If we made this happen... I feel important variables to stay the same would be...

1) a 3.0l contest would be the easiest to gather... 3.2 would be one variable accross the board for measurement

2) pump gas since we are trying to help consumers...

3) dyno / road coarse / 1/4 mile / and possible some type of AIT/MPG/boost level charts for consumer comparison

ALSO.... I think that even if this event didnt tell the consumer a damn thing... it would be a blast for NSX owners and even the ones that dont.

My $.02 again....

 

[lightguy]

so your saying car and driver should start comparing performance of a yellow 911 to a red 911 to a black 911 to a white 911 to the new limited edition green 911????

or maybe you bought the turbo kit that recomends bov isnt needed, recomends mounting a WTA inches away from a piping hot exhuast,



constantly recomends meth injection as a safety technique instead of a risky bet, and has 350 posts because 4 users are having a conversation with themselves as if it were YIM

my $.02

FYI; You really do look petty with these posts.

 

[lightguy]

For what its worth "Shootout" Implies a winner with rankings thereafter.
So the money is no object Intercooled turbo system on a low compression race motor with race gas squashes the NOVI 1000 on a stock block street gas. We already know this.

A "Comparison" or "Meet" lets everyone save face while examining different systems of different costs and requirements.

 

[manh3]

I agree that we should change the title from shootout to comparison. Moderator can you please make the correction, I would do it myself if I knew how.

I was not trying to start a pissing match I just wanted the Nsx community to get together and be able to have more information about going force induction. There is a wide spectrum of Nsx owners on here along with what's in our bank account. I myself have to be within a budget of less than 10k and am just looking for a simple set up and do not wish to build my motor.

Sorry if I offended anyone and made this a pointless thread. I understand that there can be a variance between setups. What I'm looking for is more of
A comparison between FI setups that are under 10k and how they perform at a control environment and same dyno so that we can gather some consistant numbers and time. I know that the difference between a 3.0 and a 3.2 can amount to another 20-30 hp. I only intended to gather more information for the Nsx community.

 

[scorp965]

FYI; You really do look petty with these posts.

If somebody feels strongly about the benefits of their products, are they supposed to keep it to themselves, rather than risk offending another vendor?

By pointing out design flaws an informed discussion can be started, which could motivate the original manufacturer to correct their issues, and also helps inform non-technical owners about items that should raise concern.

I was not trying to start a pissing match I just wanted the Nsx community to get together and be able to have more information about going force induction.

So let's have an informed discussion, and compare the various FI systems, and layouts, to determine which one offers the most advantageous setup; if we cannot criticize the available systems, the thread might as well be in the photo gallery.

 

[CL65 Captain]

so your saying car and driver should start comparing performance of a yellow 911 to a red 911 to a black 911 to a white 911 to the new limited edition green 911????

Ross, that's just plain silly.... everyone knows that red cars are the fastest. :wink:

 

[lightguy]

By pointing out design flaws an informed discussion can be started, which could motivate the original manufacturer to correct their issues, and also helps inform non-technical owners about items that should raise concern.

Go for it.
I'm just "pointing out" his post looks like a bash. Like he did in the competitor's own thread.
Normally I ignore a personality if his product is superior at a fair price. This one just stands out.

Carry on.

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

Go for it.
I'm just "pointing out" his post looks like a bash. Like he did in the competitor's own thread.
Normally I ignore a personality if his product is superior at a fair price. This one just stands out.

Carry on.

look man... I try help others and I'm very opinionative... so sorry

I'll state it this way.... everytime I try to help people not take bad advise... I get slammed...

well start a thread where we can answer "uneducated turbo consumers" questions and I will...

MANH3 - I think your idea of this FI comparison is one of the better idea's ever submitted on this site... thank you

 

[doc_tai]

so your saying car and driver should start comparing performance of a yellow 911 to a red 911 to a black 911 to a white 911 to the new limited edition green 911????

or maybe you bought the turbo kit that recomends bov isnt needed, recomends mounting a WTA inches away from a piping hot exhuast,

constantly recomends meth injection as a safety technique instead of a risky bet, and has 350 posts because 4 users are having a conversation with themselves as if it were YIM

my $.02

nobody recommend me to run my intercooler the way I run, this is my on idea. So far I havent seen my iat goes 125 degree on the street and it cost me less than a grand to entire water to air set up. I'm on budget I don't have money to pay 2500 for water to air intercooler and still got used part

 

[RichM]

s....because 4 users are having a conversation with themselves as if it were YIM

my $.02

Guess I am one of those users having a conversation with myself.

Funny - I thought I was sharing the experience of installing (myself) a reasonably priced turbo set-up (with BOV) in my garage by taking the time to photograph the install.

Considering my web page had over 350 hits in 48hrs I assume there was some interest in this.

You may have valid points- but its hard to get past your attitude-

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

Guess I am one of those users having a conversation with myself.

Funny - I thought I was sharing the experience of installing (myself) a reasonably priced turbo set-up (with BOV) in my garage by taking the time to photograph the install.

Considering my web page had over 350 hits in 48hrs I assume there was some interest in this.

You may have valid points- but its hard to get past your attitude-

look guys... I hope my attitude put that BOV on your car... if it didnt... good job on your reasearch or asking others what their thoughts were.

On the note of asking others... if you havent tuned your car yet... call the tuner and ask HIM how many regularly driven cars he tunes with meth injection...

theres 8 turbo kits for the nsx now... only one is telling everone to use meth injection and it's also the only kit with SS charge piping.

I dont know angus but you do... I also dont know you but it seems like I care about your motor more than he does. The glorified list of turbo'd cars he has built for himself are all 3000.00 or less in total value....

'90 integra - b18c turbo
'92 integra- automatic b20z JRSC
'93 integra b16a turbo
'91 civic si turbo

b-series motors are available in the 100's on any city's craigslist for a couple hundred bucks... your not gonna be that lucky with the c30a or c32b... so critisize my attitude one more time and than rethink your game plan.

nobody recommend me to run my intercooler the way I run, this is my on idea. So far I havent seen my iat goes 125 degree on the street and it cost me less than a grand to entire water to air set up. I'm on budget I don't have money to pay 2500 for water to air intercooler and still got used part

doc - a couple pm's back and forth can can reduce your risk and increase your engines longevity without it costing you any more cash ... it's up to you to ask me though and I will keep our conversation to "private message" ...

also... if your using a digital gauge to read your AIT's... ask your tuner to compare your gauges numbers to his AEM software and you will find them to be way off... I had this same thing happen to me but my tuner took the time to show me the discrepency because it's a terrible figure to have wrong

MANH3 - Sorry if this has been disrepectful to your thread... I will keep this thing on topic now and also make attempts at making your comparison event idea happen unless you direct me not to... and thanks again for the great idea

 

[doc_tai]

I keep asking my tuner the whole time when we do street tune what is my iat and he said " so far I have seen it over 125 degree". I use aem ems so I can data log some more when I have time.

 

[RON98]

if you guys plan on doing it in socal, ill donate my dyno for free usage if you guys can ever get this event lined up. im down for kicking in 2-3 hours of my time. if we run quick we can knock out 6-7 cars.

personally don't see how this will help anyone make a decision since different boost levels and vehicle modification will make a drastic difference in HP. probably be better just to take your car to the track and get some 1/4 mile times, post your car specs.

lot less work for me too. btw has to be on a Sunday. No place to park in my complex on a Saturday.

also my dyno reads low. no inflated dynojet numbers. so be ready to get your ego crushed by -10%hp

btw.... im sure everyone has FI has a dyno chart..... why dont you all post your dyno charts !?!?!?!

on the meth topic. everyone who has FI should use it. cant say enough good things about it. best 200$ you'll ever spend.

 

[CL65 Captain]

I don't think dynos or 1/4 mile times would be useful.

I think they should line all the cars up in front of a Dairy Queen and see who can lay the longest skid marks. :biggrin:

 

[peiserg]

I'd come if it were in the phoenix metro area. UMS tuning is a long drive for me, but what the hell...

but really.. i don't see what my setup tells anyone else... who else is running 8.5 psi with air/water and meth on 91 octane with 9.5:1 compression with race cats and cantrell exhaust through stock headers on a centrifugal SC?

and as for 1/4 mile times... count me OUT. I'm not about to drop $3k on a new clutch.

As for track... i'm sure chris wilson can beat my ass around the track in my brother's 1993 accord, so that won't tell us anything either!

Let's just call it an nsx "meet" with the idea that we will dyno as many people as we can while stuffing face with burgers/dogs/etc.